Ezen Baklattan Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Tdkr was voted number one movie by this site just saying.And almost no one's happy about it, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 You maybe took a sleep (perfectly understandable since the movie is such a boring convoluted mess) but we are explicitly told AND shown Bane is getting beaten and is never accepted by Ra's as a true member of the League Of Shadows. Being Talia's pawn is the only mean for him and the only way to fulfill his desire to be worthy of Ra's Al Ghul. Not the other way around.What you fail to understand is making Bane Talia's bitch was actually one of the point of the movie revolving around lies and revelations. (Dent's act, Alfred and Rachel letter, Gordon's letter, Miranda/Talia). During most part of the movie, we're buying in Bane's legend, how he's the chosen one to escape the pit, how he is the greatest terrorist mastermind ever. Like Wayne, we think we figured the map and yet it was a lie, Bane just obeys to the real mastermind, the real force of nature that managed to escape the pit by herself, Talia, to lure Bruce/Batman (and us, the audience) like Bruce lied to Gotham, facing his own delusion. In the end, that's all Bane was, a henchman instrumentalized by Talia for her own personal vendetta and scheme. She hated her father and then wants to avenger him using Bane's affection for her/Strong desire of being relevant to Ra's. Smoke and mirrors. And that's why, handling Bane that way with that late tacked on twist was bound to deceive when all said and done.I think you did not really grasp all the underlying subtext you pretend you did. Too bad for a Nolan fan.You really dont understand the definition of the word pawn do you?Lets use the macmillian dictionary this time which states that a pawn is "a person who is used by someone more powerful to help them achieve an aim."Bane was not used by Talia. We don't know who devised the plan, hell we don't actually know who was ultimately in charge or if they shared responsibility. For all we know Bane and Talia sat around a sheet of paper mindmapping out everything that was to be done. The fact that it was Talia that escaped the pit and not Bane does not mean that she was puling all the strings behind the scene and that Bane was the loyal puppy dog who Talia used his feelings to get what she wanted. What we do know is :Bane agreed with the League of Shadows philosophyBane and Talia have affectionate feelings for each other (this is not a one way street)Bane is quite capable of making decisions on his own.Bane is fully aware of the plan at hand.None of those are traits that fit with being a pawn.So if you want to redefine the word 'pawn' and use Nolan's audience misdirection tricks that he uses in most of his films, to think that Bane is a pawn, then by all means, you keep thinking Bane was a pawn. It's all good brah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrendar44 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) You really dont understand the definition of the word pawn do you? Lets use the macmillian dictionary this time which states that a pawn is "a person who is used by someone more powerful to help them achieve an aim." Who's pulling Bane's strings? Talia. Talia's more powerful than him since she's Ra's Al Ghul's daughter, commander in chief and only heiress of the League Of Shadows legacy. Bane is the tool of her revenge, she's the mastermind, the brain, Bane is the muscles, that's the big revelation of the movie, didn't you pay attention? When she's done, she left him behind like the henchman he is (just to be written out like a lame second fiddle. Yeah, that's how you treat a great villain you spend 2h+ to build on, just to sweep him under the rug to focus on the real villain and her climax face off with the hero. Since TDKR is a BB carbone copy, Bane is the scarecrow and Talia is Ra's Al Ghul). Since the plan is to kill Batman and destroy Gotham like Talia's daddy wanted as punishing Bruce for killing said Talia's daddy, the plan is pretty much Talia's since she's the daughter of Ra's. Bane is not Ra's son so why in hell would he hold a grudge against Bruce/Batman and Gotham to conceive such a mischievous revenge when in fact he got no reason to avenge Ra since Ra's never accepted him as a relevant and worthy LOS member, Ra's hated him. Bane is a reject that Talia brought out of the gutter knowing his affection toward her and his desperate blind faith in LOS philosophy would make him do anything for her. By your MacMillian definition, Bane is pretty much a pawn servicing Talia's deed. Your loss, baby. Edited January 22, 2013 by dashrendar44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Alfred Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) @AlfredUnchained:So Batman had to die to live... What's the point of Batman's sacrifice if someone else gonna take Batman's cowl because anyone can be Batman so in people eyes he didn't really die taking away that sacrifice notion for the greater good? Now, THAT's stupid. You either die a legend and no one else take the cowl now that's ballsy and logical.That's my beef with Nolan, only Wayne can be Batman. Nolan, by implying whatever rookie cop can be Batman, is spitting on 73 years old comics history. It's like Jesus dying for someone else to pretend he's Jesus when there was only one Jesus. He wasn't just a rookie cop. His character had a nice, little journey and Bruce thought that he would be a worthy follower. The point is that Batman is an ideal and it doesn't have to be one person. Even in this sense Nolan tries to bring realism into the franchise. What happens when Peter Parker or Tony Stark gets old? You re-cast him. How realistic, isn't? In Nolan's universe even a film in 25 year could be linked up to his trilogy. Edited January 22, 2013 by Alfred Unchained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 dashrendar,If you don't like Christopher Nolan, who do you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 Why did TA have to come out the same year as TDKR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrendar44 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) dashrendar,If you don't like Christopher Nolan, who do you like?As I already stated, I like Christopher Nolan but I didn't like TDKR. Massive difference.I loved The Prestige though. Edited January 22, 2013 by dashrendar44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#ED Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) TDKR has been ranked #1 on the prestigious Boxoffice.com forum Top 15 movies of 2012. Edited January 23, 2013 by Edward 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#ED Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I didn't even vote in time! Spaghetti made the list in The Speakeasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Alfred Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Haha, the idiot speaks the truth finally. If it wasn't for Nolan it would't have made the cut. I just love the fact that we have a "Why people dislike TDKR" thread on a forum where it's been voted as the community's favorite film of the year muhahahahaha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmandeep Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 In the end Talia was a lame character and one of the biggest flaws in the film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Gary Scott Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Then you all have impecably shitty taste in movies if you voted a movie like TDKR as your #1 movie and the only reason you did so is voting more than once and it's Nolan and if it were anyone else, this movie wouldn't have made the cut and you folks know it.. A movie with this many implausibilties that's been listed countless times within this dumb thread cannot be #1 material.. I mean, the Nolan Bromance on this site is simply staggering and disturbing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaremaster316 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 If the Avengers were directed by Michael Bay, there would be non-stop whining about "dumb pop culture references", overuse of CGI and messy, overproduced action sequences.Whatever opinion there is about Nolan's film, majority consensus or otherwise, it all comes down to the film quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrendar44 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) If the Avengers were directed by Michael Bay, there would be non-stop whining about "dumb pop culture references", overuse of CGI and messy, overproduced action sequences.Whatever opinion there is about Nolan's film, majority consensus or otherwise, it all comes down to the film quality.Christopher Nolan loves Michael Bay. Deal with it. Edited January 23, 2013 by dashrendar44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaremaster316 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Christopher Nolan loves Michael Bay. Deal with it.And Tarantino has "Manos" as one of his favorite films.I'm just stating that the ridiculous analogy of "If X did Z instead of Y, it would be opposite" doesn't hold any weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrendar44 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) I doubt Michael Bay would write a script referencing "dumb pop culture references" like Galaga, Wizard Of Oz or some kind of Shakeaspearian insult thrown in without sounding offensing but whatever. Edited January 23, 2013 by dashrendar44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 The fact TDKR is number 1 just goes to show how many Nolan fanboys there are in this site who clearly just voted it because of what it is. Neither TDKR, TA or even Skyfall should be considered this years best. You all have shit taste in movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Who's pulling Bane's strings? Talia.Talia's more powerful than him since she's Ra's Al Ghul's daughter, commander in chief and only heiress of the League Of Shadows legacy. Bane is the tool of her revenge, she's the mastermind, the brain, Bane is the muscles, that's the big revelation of the movie, didn't you pay attention? When she's done, she left him behind like the henchman he is (just to be written out like a lame second fiddle. Yeah, that's how you treat a great villain you spend 2h+ to build on, just to sweep him under the rug to focus on the real villain and her climax face off with the hero. Since TDKR is a BB carbone copy, Bane is the scarecrow and Talia is Ra's Al Ghul).Since the plan is to kill Batman and destroy Gotham like Talia's daddy wanted as punishing Bruce for killing said Talia's daddy, the plan is pretty much Talia's since she's the daughter of Ra's. Bane is not Ra's son so why in hell would he hold a grudge against Bruce/Batman and Gotham to conceive such a mischievous revenge when in fact he got no reason to avenge Ra since Ra's never accepted him as a relevant and worthy LOS member, Ra's hated him. Bane is a reject that Talia brought out of the gutter knowing his affection toward her and his desperate blind faith in LOS philosophy would make him do anything for her.By your MacMillian definition, Bane is pretty much a pawn servicing Talia's deed.Your loss, baby. Again, there is zero evidence that Talia is in anyway shape or form pulling Bane's strings. Infact the evidence that we do have clearly shows the opposite and that she does genuinely care for him like he does for her and it is a mutual partnership.1. A Ten year old Talia gets Dad to go back to free Bane from the prison. This is the actions, not of someone who wants to use him years down the road for her own gain, but the actions of someone who cares deeply for him.2. An older Talia can not forgive her Dad for excommunicating Bane from the League of Shadows until after he dies. These are not the feelings of someone who wants to use Bane for her own purposes, but of someone who cares deeply for him.What we do know is that Bane shared the values of the league of shadows and after her Dad was dead, it would had made all the sense in the world to rejoin what was left of it without any manipulation from Talia. He would want to see Gotham burn. And while, no doubt, the idea of torturing Batman was Talia's idea, i'm sure there was no manipulation on Banes side to go along with that aspect of the plan. The chance to take on, defeat and break The Batman, the man who single handily ended the organisation whose values he held so highly plus, the chance for some kind of challenge for him, would have him fully supporting that side of the plan - no manipulation required.If you want to consider Bane a henchmen, then fine, be my guest. I think he was rather more than that, but its a possible interpretation of the events of the film. But to think he was a pawn? Thats just you, so bitter towards this movie for whatever reason, trying to redefine Bane's role to bring the movie down even further in your own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 The fact TDKR is number 1 just goes to show how many Nolan fanboys there are in this site who clearly just voted it because of what it is. Neither TDKR, TA or even Skyfall should be considered this years best. You all have shit taste in movies.No-one cares about what you think our taste of movies is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrendar44 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Again, there is zero evidence that Talia is in anyway shape or form pulling Bane's strings. Infact the evidence that we do have clearly shows the opposite and that she does genuinely care for him like he does for her and it is a mutual partnership. 1. A Ten year old Talia gets Dad to go back to free Bane from the prison. This is the actions, not of someone who wants to use him years down the road for her own gain, but the actions of someone who cares deeply for him. 2. An older Talia can not forgive her Dad for excommunicating Bane from the League of Shadows until after he dies. These are not the feelings of someone who wants to use Bane for her own purposes, but of someone who cares deeply for him. If you want to consider Bane a henchmen, then fine, be my guest. I think he was rather more than that, but its a possible interpretation of the events of the film. But to think he was a pawn? Thats just you, so bitter towards this movie for whatever reason, trying to redefine Bane's role to bring the movie down even further in your own opinion. All of your exemples show, Bane is a toy in Talia's hands. His life and purpose rested upon her hands. Bane would be nowhere he is if it was not for Talia's willpower over him . Sorry, that's just how the movie ultimately presented him, because of that twist. Edited January 23, 2013 by dashrendar44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
