Game of Thrones (TV ONLY) [Leaked Spoilers prohibited]

[Lordmandeep]

Personally I think what I noticed from GOT and even TLJ is that frankly that subverting expectations is not used as a means to an end but frankly as a device to make something different or interesting.

[4815162342]

40 minutes ago, Jonan23 said:

I think it shows how knowing an endpoint is not enough as you also need to connect the dots well
 

- Euron’s got a magical horn in the books (I forgot the name) and it now seems obvious to me that he will kill Rhaegal in the books using it somehow.
 

- D&D were probably told “Euron kills Rhaegal” and they come up with him being ambushed by magic ballistas-on-boats so they can move on to the next plot point.

 

Euron's horn doesn't kill dragons but allegedly can be used to seize control over them.

[CoolioD1]

 

let's see if this thing can get any lower.

[Jonan23]

1 hour ago, 4815162342 said:

 

Euron's horn doesn't kill dragons but allegedly can be used to seize control over them.

you are right. Thank you for that reminder.

[Lordmandeep]

34 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

 

let's see if this thing can get any lower.

 

 

I wonder if Episode 3, Season 8 is the episode that turned a portion of the fan base against the show? 

[Joel M]

4 hours ago, Lordmandeep said:

Personally I think what I noticed from GOT and even TLJ is that frankly that subverting expectations is not used as a means to an end but frankly as a device to make something different or interesting.

 

I disagree in the sense that I think GOT isn't really subverting any of its audience's expectations and the backlash has very little to do with a TLJ-style reaction.

Spoiler

Dany going mad was for years one of the most popular predicted endgames. Whitewalkers not being the final boss maybe wasn't as popular a theory, but many people wished/predicted that to be the case even before season 7 set it up to happen this way. Both of those twists at least to the more hardcore part of the fandom that's mad atm, were as "unexpected" as Jon Snow's parentage reveal. I feel most people don't have much issue with what happens in a macro sense but with the logic leaps and the speed it's happening. I think many people gave it a pass last year in hope that "they just rushing to set up perfectly the epic finale", and now that said epic finale is even more rushed and illogical trying to connect the million things GRRM set up, they are understandably mad.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Joel M
spoilers sorry

[AndyK]

Surprised they fell for the old super arrow trick, did they not watch the Hobbit?

[Lordmandeep]

1 hour ago, Joel M said:

 

I disagree in the sense that I think GOT isn't really subverting any of its audience's expectations and the backlash has very little to do with a TLJ-style reaction.

  Hide contents

Dany going mad was for years one of the most popular predicted endgames. Whitewalkers not being the final boss maybe wasn't as popular a theory, but many people wished/predicted that to be the case even before season 7 set it up to happen this way. Both of those twists at least to the more hardcore part of the fandom that's mad atm, were as "unexpected" as Jon Snow's parentage reveal. I feel most people don't have much issue with what happens in a macro sense but with the logic leaps and the speed it's happening. I think many people gave it a pass last year in hope that "they just rushing to set up perfectly the epic finale", and now that said epic finale is even more rushed and illogical trying to connect the million things GRRM set up, they are understandably mad.

 

 

 

Subverting expectations is perfectly fine if people feel what it leads to is great like it did in Endgame and IW. 

 

Subverting expectations just to make a 'watching experience' is what turned parts of the fan base  against GOT.  

[Deja23]

The issue isn’t expectations being subverted. The things that are happening were things that have been theorized for the past 2 years. It was either the NK is big bad, or he loses and they need to take Cersei out + plus Dany goes Mad Queen. It’s just that it’s all happening so fast and as a result, you have character acting stupid. Everything is so telegraphed that it looses the punch that made GOT must-watch TV. I only started watching because everyone around me was and I wanted to see how it would all end. At this point, I’d be all for them subverting my expectations. That’d actually make it more interesting than it is.

 

And I don’t buy that a large portion of the fan base is against GOT.  I feel like a lot of people just want it to be over. The excitement is gone. Doesn’t mean we won’t watch or we hate it, it’s just not as satisfying a conclusion as we hoped. It’s all just ‘fine’, when the hope was that it would be great. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Deja23

[Lordmandeep]

11 minutes ago, Deja23 said:

The issue isn’t expectations being subverted. The things that are happening were things that have been theorized for the past 2 years. It was either the NK is big bad, or he loses and they need to take Cersei out + plus Dany goes Mad Queen. It’s just that it’s all happening so fast and as a result, you have character acting stupid. Everything is so telegraphed that it looses the punch that made GOT must-watch TV. I only started watching because everyone around me was and I wanted to see how it would all end. At this point, I’d be all for them subverting my expectations. That’d actually make it more interesting than it is.

 

And I don’t buy that a large portion of the fan base is against GOT.  I feel like a lot of people just want it to be over. The excitement is gone. Doesn’t mean we won’t watch or we hate it, it’s just not as satisfying a conclusion as we hoped. It’s all just ‘fine’, when the hope was that it would be great. 

 

 

No they are not against GOT as they love the rest of the seasons especially season 1-4, I think the show wont have a strong of a legacy or buzz as it once had as it seems to be ending on a bad note. 

 

Pretty much the legacy of GOT will be "Epic show but the ending was ehh" 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Lordmandeep

[DeeCee]

Stop 

[Titan Man]

I love this show to its core, but I just can't believe how much they're screwing it up with some of these decisions lately. The first episode was fine, some rather questionable decisions, but all in all, entertaining TV. The second one was a masterpiece, it was everything we loved from GoT. The third one was excellent in terms of visuals and music, but the fact that everyone important survived and that we didn't get a backstory about the Night King was really provoking me. The last one was a complete disaster through and through, everyone was acting out of character without much explanation or reason, the dialogue was truly awful, I cringed at Jaime/Brienne and Arya/Gendry scenes. But the death of Rhaegal was some of the stupidest writing I've ever seen on television, just awful on so many levels, it was just not on par with GoT. Now, we all know the quality dropped when they surpassed the books, it was to be expected, but the show was never outright dumb. The last season had some dumb decisions, but it was never show-killing. This is. I'm just so sad that it seems we're going to get a bad final season for one of the best, if not the best, shows of all time just because someone was lazy to write 6 episodes in two years and just wanted to be done with it so they can do Star Wars...

[Ozymandias]

14 hours ago, Agafin said:

I'm typically not a very critical person (I liked the first two episodes and despite its glaring flaws, I still found the third one enjoyable), but this episode might just be the worst episode I've ever seen in Game of Thrones. The first thirty or so minutes felt like bad fanfiction and were way too dragged out considering we only have two episodes left. Little did I know that they would end up being the best that the episode had to offer.

 

In this episode, it's obvious that the writers knew where they wanted the plot to move and were ready to do anything to get there. Nothing bad with that but you have to at least make it logical and internally consistent. Like, we know Tyrion is the hand of the queen, how exactly was it so easy for Bronn to sneak up on him? It's like everyone forgets that they are in a war here. And his (Bronn's) behaviour during that scene felt totally out of character honestly. Then you have Jaime heading back to King's Landing when he learns that Dany will attempt to kill Cersei. Um, what exactly did he think Dany and the others were going to do south? He seems surprised as if he wasn't part of the council when they were discussing the war strategy. War strategy that was pretty bad by the way. Sansa was absolutely right that they had to wait (even though she was mostly speaking for the northmen). There was no reason for Dany to be in such a haste. Unlike with the Night king, there's no deadline on when the throne should be taken so they should have taken their time and rested for a bit (weeks at least) after the war they had just fought.

 

The cake though definitely goes to the Euron scene. When the dragon was killed, it felt so surreal that I thought Dany might be hallucinating. When the camera panned towards the sea and we saw Euron's fleet, I actually laughed out loud. So you mean to tell me that they somehow decided to go back to Dragonstone without sending anyone to scout the area? Remember in season two when Tywin and Robb could monitor each other's movements thousands of miles apart thanks to an elaborate network of spies? And now, we are supposed to be believe that these war strategists somehow missed an entire fleet, which by the way had already attacked them in the past (Yara and Ellaria)? And even beyond that, Dany flying several hundreds of feet above the sea didnot see a dozen large ships until they hit her dragon. Absolutely terrible scene, I couldn't believe my eyes. It's so obvious that the writers want to even the playing field in Cersei's favor but to achieve that they decided to make Tyrion and Varys dumb and Euron, an omnipresent magician. God Euron sucks.

 

Even the end in King's Landing sucked. How many times will Dany try to negociate with Cersei? Hasn't she already shown herself to be completely untrustworthy? Dany, didn't you loose a f-king dragon to the night king to convince her and yet she still betrayed you? Tyrion, you say your sister is not a monster yet she's proven beyond any reasonable doubt that she absolutely is, why have you become such a terrible adviser?

 

Honestly, I'm still in a state of shock at this episode. Very disappointing. I hope Sappochnik salvages things a bit next week.

I felt almost the same way but I thought it must've been a weird dream sequence at first followed by Dany waking up in bed sweating or something.  It was just so strange.  Even the bad episodes in GOT were at least entertaining(like episode 3), but this was truly an awful slog with horrible writing.

[Warhorse]

10 hours ago, Lordmandeep said:

 

 

I wonder if Episode 3, Season 8 is the episode that turned a portion of the fan base against the show? 

Well, for starters, they were touting this to be the greatest battle ever seen on screen. I was expecting something like Helm's Deep, but with dragons in the mix. Instead, I got something I can barely see. Helm's Deep had a battle in the night, with a storm going on, and everything was visually stunning. This, I can hardly see shit. I was looking forward to that fight Arya has with her new weapon, and well, I can barely make sense of it. I also wanted to see some good ass sword fights. We had warriors on that field with Valerian steel. It would have been nice to see them take on the White Walker generals one by one. Jon Snow is supposed to be the main leader, and yet, he doesn't do shit. Would it kill them to at least have him take down the Wight dragon? 

[CloneWars]

19 hours ago, Jonan23 said:

I think it shows how knowing an endpoint is not enough as you also need to connect the dots well
 

- Euron’s got a magical horn in the books (I forgot the name) and it now seems obvious to me that he will kill Rhaegal in the books using it somehow.
 

- D&D were probably told “Euron kills Rhaegal” and they come up with him being ambushed by magic ballistas-on-boats so they can move on to the next plot point.

One potential positive of the show is that GRRM can see what works and doesn't and can then adjust the ending of his books accordingly.

I'm guessing GRRM just told them the broad strokes like so and so dies and so so kills this person (if it was relevant who killed who) I'm pretty sure D&D are taking a lot of creative liberties here. I fully expect the last book to be very different than how this season is.

[CloneWars]

Personally, I think the Long Night is the single worst episode of the series. I think it would actually be good if they filmed it in such a way that things were visible. You can have a show take place at night and still see things.

[Lordmandeep]

5 hours ago, CloneWars said:

Personally, I think the Long Night is the single worst episode of the series. I think it would actually be good if they filmed it in such a way that things were visible. You can have a show take place at night and still see things.

Think that episode could have been better with a few fixes

 

Bran having visions to the past to have the whole white Walker story coming full circle.

 

Jon snow fights the night king and loses but arya saves the day...(that how is you do actually do subversion).

 

My point is if you have people on the train for 8 plus years you have to give people payoffs.

 

Yes its fan service but endgame and iw had tons of subversion too.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Lordmandeep

[Ozymandias]

omg this is amazing

 

 

[Titan Man]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

omg this is amazing

 

 

I just love how they have this whole "after-show" to explain their dumbass writing. 😂

 

Also, is this show breaking the record for the worst final season of an excellent TV show? D&D be like: I'm about to end this whole franchise. 😂

[Ozymandias]

32 minutes ago, Titan Man said:

I just love how they have this whole "after-show" to explain their dumbass writing. 😂

 

Also, is this show breaking the record for the worst final season of an excellent TV show? D&D be like: I'm about to end this whole franchise. 😂

I don't know.  But even if GOT shits the bed in these last 2 episodes, I'd still probably have overall good memories of the show.  Seasons 1-4 and 6 are what I'd call top tier TV.

 

I just really, really hope they don't fuck up Cleganebowl.