kowhite Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) A spin off uses a same chacter from a previous movie.A knock of has different chacters and story using a similar concept and execution.He may be knowledgable but that doesn't make him omniscient. Well, that's a definition distinction I've never heard. The more general definition of spin-off covers both categories. Not to mention, knock off from any usage of the term I've heard has always referred to a copied version of something else, usually unlicensed and lower quality. Maybe you'd like to share where you're getting these definitions from? I am going to guess my perception of the meaning of the words is probably the more common one, heck it's what the dictionary says. Granted, it's worth noting this definitional distinction has no real bearing on what was said. But, nonetheless, based on the normal definition of spin-off...Planes is definitely part of that category. Edited March 10, 2013 by kowhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 That's why I'm downloading (and because some Oscar contenders still didn't come out here, but came out on DVD, or at all), but if there are movies like Oz, Iron Man 3, Man of Steel, The Hobbit, I do my best to go to the theater and watch them. If I had a car I would go every week, but this way I'm going once every month or two... maybe less than that.That's my point. Those who really want to see a movie in theaters, and can pay for it, will find a way to see it in theaters. Those who cannot, will download.I download movies mostly because I don't have time to see everything in theaters (I see 100+ movies every year, ~40 in theaters, 60+ on PC). If I couldn't download, I'd skip most of those altogether because I already see all the good ones in theaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandrew Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) I think that's why the BO threshold is getting bigger. People will pay for spectacles- F6, Skyfall, Iron Man, and acclaimed hits like SLP or Argo or comedy in downtime like IT, whether its good or not, but who is paying $10-$14+ for a dark drama like Side Effects or a generic romantic comedy (hence why rom com's just cant make money), etc. I miss the old days where literally any movie, any rating, any time of year could claim #1, now its always PG-13 comic book, and then the rest of the top ten is sequels. I know many don't care, but i'm not the best with change; I guess its my OCD. A cool idea would be if they let you download movies online to watch one time, but you still had to pay at least something of the ticket price. Attendance would still drop, but BO wouldn't suffer. People go to the big ones, but download the little ones; threshold. Edited March 10, 2013 by jandrew 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementeleus Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 A spin off uses a same chacter from a previous movie.A knock of has different chacters and story using a similar concept and execution.He may be knowledgable but that doesn't make him omniscient.I'd expand your definition to include stories taking place within the same universe, as opposed to just a complete imitation. And no, of course lowhite's not omniscient. But he's more knowledgeable than most here in these matters (budget/marketing, ancillary expenses and income). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I think that's why the BO threshold is getting bigger. People will pay for spectacles- F6, Skyfall, Iron Man, and acclaimed hits like SLP or Argo or comedy in downtime like IT, whether its good or not, but who is paying $10-$14+ for a dark drama like Side Effects or a generic romantic comedy (hence why rom com's just cant make money), etc. I miss the old days where it literally any movie, any rating, any time of year could claim #1, now its always PG-13 comic book, and then the rest of the top ten is sequels. I know many don't care, but i'm not the best with change; I guess its my OCD. A cool idea would be if they let you download movies online to watch one time, but you still had to pay at least something of the ticket price. Attendance would still drop, but BO wouldn't suffer. People go to the big ones, but download the little ones; threshold.It exists and is called VOD.They could improve prizing and timing. I would start availability of movies on VOD 1 week after OW with a prize 25% down on movie tickets. And the prizes should come down over time. People watching the same movie again get a discount, that increases with each rewatching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandrew Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 It exists and is called VOD.They could improve prizing and timing. I would start availability of movies on VOD 1 week after OW with a prize 25% down on movie tickets. And the prizes should come down over time. People watching the same movie again get a discount, that increases with each rewatching. Oh I know it does. Half of the movies on Apple Trailers are movies that come out on theaters and VOD at the same time. I think its stupid, but whatever it will take to get people watching legally again. And they only let you watch one time, like some services, so it's like watching first run, but your idea makes sense. I'm sure the bigger studios will look into that in the future. Movie theaters will hate it, but they already don't make money off the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Except it doesn't, films that don't do this get sequels all the time, like Captain America, Star Trek, Batman Begins, X-Men: First Class, Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs, Fast 2 and 3, and countless others. On the other hand Alice which easily did this isn't getting a sequel.Captain America and 2 Fast 2 Furious pass the 2x production/marketing test.Fast and Furious 3 was bullshit. The studio basically made a sequel to part 2 with part 4 by bringing back the original cast.So that just leaves mostly geek-friendly reboots. All of which only fail the test by 20-25 million. Clearly studios don't mind being in the red 20 million if they're re-launching a proven and promising franchise. Oz is going to end up 100 million in the red. It's nothing like those movies.So that only leaves Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. Another movie only short 20 m. lol, so examples like Oz rarely if ever get sequels and the 2x marketing/production test is is solid guide to what will earn a sequel. Edited March 10, 2013 by grey ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'd expand your definition to include stories taking place within the same universe, as opposed to just a complete imitation.And no, of course lowhite's not omniscient. But he's more knowledgeable than most here in these matters (budget/marketing, ancillary expenses and income).Before copyright law it was common practice to use characters others created in your own stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 In general, movies aren't available online during their theatrical run. You find them online a few weeks/days before DVD/VOD/Blu Ray release. So for SLP and evey other Oscar movie that leaked this award season, the online availability of those movies were an exception, not the rule. And SLP is not the movie that screams Imax if you know what I mean, you can see it on your laptop and experience the emotions of the characters all the same. Unlike 0dark30, les Miz or Lincoln which have big production values. So maybe 10m more without screener ? Yep, it s a guess game. We ll never know. Also SLP is one of the most profitable movie, if not the most, of 2012, 20m budget for 200m ww, 10 times its budget, it is as if Avengers had made 2B ww. Harvey made a lot of money this year with SLP and Django. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The biggest movies are always the most downloaded, even if they're worth seeing in a theater more, so I don't know if that logic holds. I have no sympathy for pirates in the states. OS is a different story because of distribution rights and whatnot. But if you can't drive to the movie in the US then wait until it's legally available online. There's no meaningful argument you have on your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The biggest thing going against an Oz sequel isn't the BO, it's that Raimi doesn't seem to want to come back. Right there you've potentially lost a huge chunk of the cast and crew. Apes 2 lost Wyatt, but cast looks to be improved. IM3 lost its director, so its to early to call it a failure. Lets wait and see who they get first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 the main reason I don't see a sequel to Oz is because they didn't make a sequel to Alice, so why Oz? AiW2 is in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Well, that's a definition distinction I've never heard. The more general definition of spin-off covers both categories. Not to mention, knock off from any usage of the term I've heard has always referred to a copied version of something else, usually unlicensed and lower quality. Maybe you'd like to share where you're getting these definitions from? I am going to guess my perception of the meaning of the words is probably the more common one, heck it's what the dictionary says. Granted, it's worth noting this definitional distinction has no real bearing on what was said. But, nonetheless, based on the normal definition of spin-off...Planes is definitely part of that category.Can you name some examples of spin offs with zero recurring characters other than Planes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJohn Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The biggest movies are always the most downloaded, even if they're worth seeing in a theater more, so I don't know if that logic holds.I have no sympathy for pirates in the states. OS is a different story because of distribution rights and whatnot. But if you can't drive to the movie in the US then wait until it's legally available online. There's no meaningful argument you have on your side. Project X, Source Code and I Am Number Four say hi (just from the last 2 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'd expand your definition to include stories taking place within the same universe, as opposed to just a complete imitation. And no, of course lowhite's not omniscient. But he's more knowledgeable than most here in these matters (budget/marketing, ancillary expenses and income).That would mean any movie set in the Marvel Universe would be considered a spin off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tower Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Captain America and 2 Fast 2 Furious pass the 2x production/marketing test.Fast and Furious 3 was bullshit. The studio basically made a sequel to part 2 with part 4 by bringing back the original cast.So that just leaves mostly geek-friendly reboots. All of which only fail the test by 20-25 million. Clearly studios don't mind being in the red 20 million if they're re-launching a proven and promising franchise. Oz is going to end up 100 million in the red. It's nothing like those movies.So that only leaves Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. Another movie only short 20 m.lol, so examples like Oz rarely if ever get sequels and the 2x marketing/production test is is solid guide to what will earn a sequel. They didn't, and the examples I gave were just off the top of my head, there are more egregious examples. Treansporter didn't even make 1X its total budget and still got a sequel, this sequel also didn't make 2X its budget and then still got another sequel. And in your answer even you say that unprofitable films get sequels because studios think they can make a profit with the sequel, which is part of why such sequel rules don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatebox Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 All it confirms is that international audiences weren't excited for Oz. Not surprising - the love for the 1939 movie isn't nearly as prolific outside the US. It's a uniquely American fairytale. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolioD1 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Project X, Source Code and I Am Number Four say hi (just from the last 2 years).That's true, I remember reading that Project X was the most downloaded film of last year or something. It makes sense for people to watch that on their laptops as it's basically an extended YouTube video anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Project X, Source Code and I Am Number Four say hi (just from the last 2 years). http://www.gossipcop.com/bittorrent-most-downloaded-movies-2012-list-illegal-downloads-torrents-pirated-films/#0Everything on the list besides Project X and Dictator is a blockbuster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stingray Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) I try to only download bad movies. Horror movies mostly. Edited March 10, 2013 by The Stingray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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