Willowra
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Posts posted by Willowra
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8 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:
Dude nobody said that was happening except you. You made up a fake movie and then said that it was doomed.
They can make anything they want to make. If they can make a Ms. Marvel tv show & a movie before Young Avengers, then they can also make a solo Storm movie before an X-men movie; they won't come to ask your permission for that. I'm just saying they shouldn't repeat such mistake again.
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5 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:
So people are just....making up movies to say they're bombs??? Nobody said anything about them getting solo movies.
People cannot possibly be arguing that having Jean Grey and Storm in an X-Men movie are going to cause it to bomb with any level of seriousness.
When I said that X-men movie having Jean Grey and Storm is going to bomb? I said these characters aren't popular & their solo movies before a X-Men movie would bomb at box office just like The Marvels & they shouldn't repeat this mistake again.
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20 minutes ago, eddyxx said:
Can Marvel please please please cast a dark skinned(preferably african but british african is fine too) strong regal actress as Storm this time. Fox failed twice by casting a light skinned actress. Nothing is wrong with Halle Berry as a actress but she was miscast as Storm.
I really hope that they won't make the mistake of releasing a Storm solo movie before a X-Men movie led by Storm; otherwise, the X-Men movie will face the same problem as the Young Avengers movie led by Ms. Marvel will face now or the problem that Avengers 5 might face.
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Lmao, some people are really in la-la land. Storm or Jean Grey aren't popular; if they release a solo movie of Storm or Jean Grey, then it will flop harder than The Marvels. MCU movies led by these characters will work as long as the title of the movie is X-Men or Mutants and has popular X-Men (Wolverine, Magneto, or Charles Xavier) characters in it. Though Storm or Jean Grey can become popular in the future, like Wolverine or Magneto, if they appear in multiple X-men or other cross-over movies as a lead character in the MCU.
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What is hilarious is that JM compared himself to RDJ multiple times; before this case, he was saying that just like Tony Stark was a super hero of super heroes, his kang character will be a super villain of super villains, and he will write a book on it lmao
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They will recast Kang. As per Loki writer Eric Martin, Michael Waldron is working on Kang movie. Also Marvel/Disney got what they deserved. Instead of building the saga by projecting protagonists they were trying to build the saga through an antagonist that nobody had heard before. MCU downfall was started when they had stopped giving good scripts & good writing to the movies of their big characters and instead only used next Big Bad thing to keep people interested in MCU.
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4 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:
The reshoots are happening. There is no evidence of it costing 150 million or being 2/3rds of the movie like you're claiming.
All your arguments rely on things that have absolutely zero connection to actual box office performance. Captain Marvel didn't appear every year after her movie came out, so it was doomed, but nobody's saying Deadpool 3 is doomed because Jackman and Reynolds didn't regularly come back, especially since they were gone longer than Captain Marvel was. Your arguments are just bad.
Not every character can be like Deadpool or Spider-Man; most MCU characters need to be established through cross-over films. There was a huge difference in the popularity of Thor, Cap, and Hulk before The Avengers (2012), and after The Avengers and their sequels got benefited by that. Even Iron Man 3 benefited from Tony being fully established in the MCU through The Avengers (2012).
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20 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:
Completely made up. There is no source on this. All the credible reports say they're reshooting action scenes, not the entire movie.
And again, we got to keep the discussion of The Marvels to the fucking Marvels thread, because we cannot keep repeating the same two arguments at the same time in separate threads.
Ok, if the rumor of extensive reshoot is false, you can minus 150m, but still, they have been forced to push this movie to 2025 because of The Marvels. If Cap4 had retained its May release date, it would have been flopped next year too, and then DP3 would have underperformed, and then no one would have given shit about Thunderbolts in December.
This is the Marvel general thread; people can converse about any Marvel character/movie here. -
9 hours ago, HummingLemon496 said:
All Releases
DOMESTIC (41.6%)
$82,940,438INTERNATIONAL (58.4%)
$116,456,624WORLDWIDE
$199,397,062RIP. A $343M raw drop from Captain Marvel's $426M. It managed to beat Force Awakens to Last Jedi ($316M) for the biggest raw sequel drop domestically.Their not establishing Captain Marvel in the MCU between her solo movies and not putting efforts into the sequel to a billion-dollar movie cost them a lot. The Marvels lost at least 200m in revenue (400m in box office), it flopped, and they have been forced to push Cap4 and Thunderbolts to 2025; this will cost them another 600-700m (1.2-1.5 billion in box office) of their 2024 revenue, plus they will now reshoot 2/3rd of Cap4, which will cost them another 150m, so in total they would lose around 1B in revenue or 2B worth of box office. They thought they would easily get away after making that big mistake, but they were wrong. And I think this mistake might haunt them again after 3-4 years. That's why it's important to fairly treat every lead character in a connected universe
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18 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:
Captain Marvel hasn't been a massive part of any film since Endgame. She wasn't even in Secret Invasion, despite being directly involved with the show's two main characters in the first film. Chronically online folks are claiming the audience has rejected Captain Marvel, and it's possible they have, but even Marvel Studios hasn't been acting like she's important.
Actually no one has been a massive part of any film since Endgame(Only DS had some major role in NWH). There isn't any Avengers movie in phase 4 or 5 & they haven't announced Avengers 5 cast yet, so no one actually knows who is important and who isn't.
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7 hours ago, Zak said:
A lot of The Marvels fans wouldn't be as shocked as they are right now if they would have only listened to real people who pointed out the issues with the first film. That's what happens when you lump all critics together.
There's a difference between not liking a movie for story and character reasons and not liking a film because you don't like that it is staring a woman. Two completely different trains of thought of yet they were seen as the same thing because films are seen as activism from certain people. Captain Marvel felt like a rushed project that only chose it's lead actress because she won an Oscar and not because she was actually right for the role. That sloppiness has come back to bite Marvel in the behind.
Or she is perfect casting for the role & unlike other MCU heroes like Thor, Captain America and Doctor Strange they didn't establish her in the MCU in between her solo movies & that sloppiness has come back to bite Marvel in the behind?
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12 minutes ago, Kon said:
The Marvels bomb because there was disinterest on the character and the brand, not because a group of fans boycott the movie.
There were a group of fans trying to boycott Captain Marvel, but that didn't work. The interest for Captain Marvel movie was likely due to promotion connecting it with Endgame, but it stil shows that interest is a lot more important that some groups of online fans trying to boycott a movie.
Fans didn't support it because they were disinterested in the character, I'm just giving the reason behind the disinterest.
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3 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:
I don't think wondering if Captain Marvel was going to be a lead was an issue even before The Marvels because while it did involve the multiverse it doesn't really sound like she was going to be the one at the center of it.
There have been hundreds of reddit posts made in the last 4 years about who'll lead the Avengers; people were posting them daily, and we can still see such posts regularly. The point is that Marvel Studios made a section of their dedicated fanbase uncomfortable with the character. Some Strange & Spidey fans hate her because they want them to be the focus of this saga; some Captain America fans hate her because they want CA to be the leader of the Avengers; some Thor & Hulk fans hate her because they want them to be the strongest; and some Wanda fans hate her because they want Wanda to be the most important female character in this saga.
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30 minutes ago, Kon said:
Right now, Marvel Studios has likely more relevant things to worry for the brand than fans speculating who will be the lead of an Avengers movie.
In fact, after The Marvels bomb so hard, most people don't really believe Captain Marvel will be the main lead of an Avengers movie. So, I don't think Marvel Studios need to worry about that.
What marvel should worry or not worry that's not my concern; I only saying why it flopped, it flopped because MCU dedicated fanbase didn't support the movie.
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15 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:
So your argument is, very specifically, that if Captain Marvel is the main lead of Secret Wars and Kang Dynasty, a thing that has not been reliably reported to be a thing and is literally just you speculating, the movie will do badly
badly? No. My expectations for a female-led Avengers movie are already low, and for a Captain Marvel-led Avengers movie (if she leads, which I doubt now), my expectations are 400–800m, which would depend on marketing and quality.
16 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:So your argument is, very specifically, that if Captain Marvel is the main lead of Secret Wars and Kang Dynasty, a thing that has not been reliably reported to be a thing and is literally just you speculating, the movie will do badly
And that's what my question is: why did Marvel Studios let fans speculate about this when they knew that they were not liking it? They setup the movie to fail at box office by making a section of the fanbase uncomfortable with the character.
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3 minutes ago, Kon said:
It was the general audience who make the previous MCU big success, not harcore fans.
Hardcore fans are a small group. They hating a character wouldn't really have a big effect on the box office.
That said, it's true that general audience seems disinterested on Captain Marvel, which is a lot worse for the character than any hate or disconforting you could see online.
I disagree; unless the movie is an event movie like Avengers, the support of hardcore fans is must for a normal MCU movie to succeed at box office.
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4 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:
Then what is the actual point youve been making since you keep insisting there's backlash against female leads?
There is blacklash against only CM & interest in other female lead project is also less compare to male lead projects thats what I'm saying.
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11 minutes ago, Bob Train said:
Nah, people are taking a wait-and-see attitude to MCU now, in a post-Quantumania world. The built-in audience that would see it no matter what is not there anymore, and will only be a guaranteed show-up for the highest-tier characters (i.e. Spider-Man, Deadpool, etc.).
Unless they are of better quality/have better marketing, it is highly likely Cap 4, Thunderbolts, etc. will put up similar numbers to the Marvels.
I'm not saying it would have done 600m or 700m with better quality but with the support of dedicated MCU fanbase it would have done atleast 300-350m & with better quality 400-450m.
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1 minute ago, Kon said:
We couldn't really use online voices to prove someone is really disliked or not. They don't represent general audience.
Honestly, Captain Marvel isn't a really popular character. The poor box office of The Marvels seems to show that.
However, I don't think hate towards the character are the main feelings between general audience. The issue is a complete lack of interest.
Online voices represent hardcore fans & they weren't interested in the movie. And she is obviously not popular among GA base as they didn't establish her as big character in previous movies, so double blow.
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1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:
Man you are not breaking new ground with "Reddit is not a fan of female characters".
Nope Reddit is a fan of Wanda and even Black Widow.
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13 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:
My dude this thing of "Brie Larson is the leader of the Avengers in Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars" is literally just something that is complete speculation on your part. Will she probably be in at least one of them? Yes. But the thing your posting is something that is literally just guessing on your end. It's just as equally plausible that it's Deadpool or Doctor Strange or literally anyone else
MCU Fans speculate this not just me & they hate her because of that. Go to marvel studios sub reddit and you'll know this. And youtube comments on brazil & mexico CBM videos were even worse than what I saw on Reddit & this the reason why it flopped badly in Mexico which is also known as Marvel nation. If hardcore fans aren't comfortable with the character you need to make them comfortable or tap GA base by projecting the character as big character & if you do nothing then we see result like The Marvels.
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10 minutes ago, Bob Train said:
it's because the movie looked bad.
It would've still done atleast 350m at box office as it is a mcu movie.
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1 hour ago, Zak said:
As much as it annoys me to say, I do acknowledge that these all female team up films absolutely don't sale. Ghostbusters 2016, Charlie's Angels 2019, Terminator Dark Fate, Birds of Prey and The Marvels all either disappointed in Birds of Prey case or outright bombed, in all of the other films case. Female led action adventure movies do have more of an uphill climb but they can sale as evidenced by The Hunger Games franchise, Wonder Woman and yes Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel 2 with a mix gender team up like Thor Ragnarok had might not have saved the film because the bad MCU movies hurting the franchise would still exist but it might have helped matters more.
The idea that Sue being the star of FF will harm the film is silly. Most of that team is made up of men and cool men at that. That's not even remotely similar to the films that I mentioned. Same with that Suicide Squad knock off and Captain America 4, which is starring a man. And indeed Eternals did not flop because it was starring a woman. It flopped because was boring and the film never convinced audiences that the Eternals not fighting Thanos made any sense. Marvel dropped the ball on Captain Marvel 2 with creative decisions that don't sale. They did everything wrong.
Eternals flopped not because it was a female lead movie, I agree, but it wouldn't have done more than 500m even with good quality; there is less interest in female lead MCU projects compared to male projects, and we can't deny that, but for the Captain Marvel 2 movie, interest was even less because a section of MCU hardcore fans don't feel comfortable with the character as they don't want her to be the face of MCU or lead the Avengers. If she isn't going to lead the Avengers, then I think Marvel Studios made a big blunder by not telling them that she isn't going to lead. Hostility towards the character from a large section of the fanbase hurt its box office. The Marvels is an all-female team-up movie, but it is still a MCU movie, and it would have done at least 350m even with everything going against the movie, but it didn't because it didn't get support from the MCU-dedicated fanbase. Solo MCU movies box office are driven mostly by a hardcore fanbase, and if they don't want to support the character, then that movie flops at box office.
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2 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:
Avengers: Endgame overseas opening weekend ($866M) > Avengers: The Kang Dynasty worldwide total
I actually have no problem if next Avengers movies are female leads & if they do just 600-700m at box office but it should do atleast this much as female lead movies deserve audience just like male lead movies.
The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!
in Box Office Discussion
Posted · Edited by Willowra
Nope I never said that is absolutely going to happen, nor did I say that the Loki finale would absolutely impact the Marvels box office(Though it is matter of debate now that how much Loki finale took the limelight away from the marvels). The problem is that you have been unable to comprehend what is an assumption or speculation and what is a fact.