Nicoco
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Posts posted by Nicoco
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On 31/07/2017 at 5:15 PM, marveldcfox said:
BD and Cars 3 are releasing on same date in China as this movie. Lmao. Besson simply can't win.
Visionnary...
Valerian : 58M$
Cars 3: 19M$
BD: 15M$
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1 hour ago, Gavin Feng said:
Firstly, sorry for what I said. Sometimes I couldn't catch the language environment, and I didn't know what really happened. I have a bad temper, and I always do some rash things. I make an apology for the unpleasant and unreasonable memories.
Secondly, I don't really know about marveldcfox or how your impressions about this person. But I do not like those words about wrong predictions, because it's not fair. I don't mean to blame someone, I just want to make this clear. I was struggling with myself when someone asked me how much this or that will earn, because that is a difficult question. The best CBO experts and trackers like Olive, firedeep and many of you are here, BOT. And none of us can accurately answer those kind of questions, let alone other persons. So we should show gentleness to all reasonable predictions, instead of dredging it up.
Prediction is not the topic here. The topic was more answering to someone (marvel) who constantly write that the movie will drown in every territory just because he don't like it....
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After 5 weeks.... Valerian still number 1 at the french Box Office this Week-end
1 2 Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets EuropaC $1,747,970 -29.8% 940 -30 $1,860 $32,976,922 5 2 1 War for the Planet of the Apes Fox $1,692,022 -34.2% 685 -72 $2,470 $20,357,916 4 3 N The Hitman's Bodyguard Metro. $1,514,169 - 467 - $3,242 $1,514,169 1 -
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Still something that I don't understand here. DM3 did 5.3M admission and mojo annonce a total gross of 37M$ when average ticket price in France is between 10$-15$ (3D) ?
Is this because the VAT or exploitant part is excluded ?
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22 hours ago, marveldcfox said:
How so? It opened to $28 million and will finish with 40M. That's pretty bad.
Valerian reached 40M this monday...
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3 minutes ago, Gavin Feng said:
MON
before service fees
Valérian - 75.7m / 257.3m
Wolf Warrior 2 - 53.5m / 5,093m
Paradox - 22.9m / 430.6m
Baby Driver - 18.7m / 79.2m
Cars 3 - 14.9m / 81.8m
after service fees
Valérian - 80.5m / 272.6m
Wolf Warrior 2 - 57.2m / 5,451m
Paradox - 24.7m / 464.7m
Baby Driver - 19.9m / 84.2m
Cars 3 - 15.8m / 87.2mValerian did better on monday than during the week-end... How is this possible ?
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2 hours ago, marveldcfox said:
Are you saying it bombed or it is killing others? how much so far in china?
Baby Driver will do less than 1/3 of Valerian during the week end and Cars pretty much the same.
When you know that Valerian will do a "not so impressive" 30M$ OW and WW2 is also loosing a large part of his audience how can you explain such a disaster ?
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9 minutes ago, Gavin Feng said:
Probably daily #1 will be back to WW2 soon before Dunkirk coming.
Does a drama about WW2 in France have a chance in China ? -
42 minutes ago, Gavin Feng said:
Probably $40 million. 4 films will open on Sep.1.
Valerian would only do 10M on total run after opening week-end at 30M ? Doesn't sounds verry optimistic even with arrival of new movies.
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Valerian is now the 3rd highest grossing movie in the french yearly box office with 30.4M $.
This is also due to the huge % of 3D screening (>20% more expensives).
As Valerian was still second at the BO this friday it could become 1st at the yearly box office in the coming days (DM is at 37M$).
1 Despicable Me 3 UPI $37,795,472 7/5 2 Raid dingue Path $33,304,269 2/1 3 Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets EuropaC $30,465,246 7/26 -
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5 minutes ago, Barnack said:
I did try to understand that one, but could not, you still have to spend some money for the movie production in Belgium or not ?
In the European Economic Area but you need to be represented by a Belgian Production Company in Belgium --> in this case Belga Film Fund who has a long term partnership with Europacrop.
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6 minutes ago, TalismanRing said:
Reportedly, Eurocorp is on the hook for $60m P&A costs in the US. Not STX the distributor. Which makes sense since STX in no way would or could spend that much on P&A - especially when they weren't even the one's who got to call the release date.
There's also Fundamental's position which has a 28% stake in Eurocorp as well as equity in the film. They're not in it for a tax write off.
"Those in the pre-sales world don’t believe what Deadline was told — that 90% of the film’s budget was sold this off around the world in pre-sales and made up by tax credits. They say pre-sales would cover more like 60%. "
"Those in the pre-sales world believes"..... That's exactly why I call Deadline bullshit...
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12 minutes ago, Barnack said:
That could explain that 150m net they are talking about you referenced, 30m Euro is the maximum help in France but if most of the movie spending was in Canada and other VFX places around the world he probably got tax credit from 2/3 other jurisdictions.
Like I said Belga film fund is coproducer via the tax shelter sytem
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4 minutes ago, TalismanRing said:
It's Besson's quote, so if it's bullshit it came out of his mouth - repeatedly.
i
Besson saying Bullshits is definitively something possible.
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18 minutes ago, Barnack said:
Maybe you made some typo here by saying eurocorp, do you mean worlds distributors instead ?
There is many entity involved:
Valerian sold overs 100 market among I think over 70 different distributor, it pre-sold for 80m in just one day at Canne.
Every of those 70+ entity (one of them being EuroCorp) can individually loose or make money, most will loose money some will probably make money, Eurocorp being the distributor in one of the market Valerian did the best (France) will probably not loose much money if any.
Shmuger told Forbes the company was on the hook for a little more—around 10% of the budget. “The cost to EuropaCorp to mount the largest European production ever made, the largest independently-produced non-studio production ever made, the dream project of the company’s founder—the total cost to the company is not $200 million or $150 million, but under $20 million of financial exposure,” Shmuger said.
Not necessarily, even if Eurocorp made good money on it we will not necessarily get a sequel, the next time Besson go at Canne and the other buyer market trying to sales Valerian 2 he will not find many buyers, not at that price tag at least. And he cannot make it by having Eurocorp funding it.
I think the key issue to make a sequel will be the ability/will of Luc Besson Europacorp to produce Valerian 2 for a lower Budget.
To find savings, he could begin with his own salary estimated at 6M$....
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29 minutes ago, KGator said:
Is English not your first language? You seem to be having a hard time understanding this topic. It's like you are replying to a conversation you are holding with yourself rather than any point I made. Valerian lost money for Eurocorp . . . a LOT of money. This idea you have that there are investors who are happy to throw money away for tax benefits and it really is a win/win for the Studio . . . errrr . . . okay. If you are right we will see a sequel. But until we do I'm going to file your depiction of an uber-creative, mathematically unsound, money laundering style European film industry under the "I don't really give a flip" category. If they announce a Valerian sequel I'll re-evaluate my opinion of your sanity.
And with that I'll bid farewell from this fascinating . . . . ehhh . . . . well . . . . actually pretty boring and needlessly redundant . . . . discussion.
We need to be 2 to maintain such a boring conversation. So thank you for being my boring partner on this boring conversation !
I understand that you don't care about being informed on the topic but I put a description of the tax shelter financing system in this link for the interested people :
https://www.belgiumfilm.be/film-financing/tax-shelter
And yes my native langage is not english (yes "english non-native speaker" does exists in this world and manage to live like normal human beings)...
So how is your french ?
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1 hour ago, TalismanRing said:
Besson repeated several times over the last several months that the movie would be fine if it did Lucy numbers.
http://variety.com/2017/film/news/valerian-box-office-flop-china-1202532674/
As you can see this article gives 300M as the threshold to make a sequel as a citation of Europacorp representatives. But the truth is that US media are bullshit.
7 hours ago, KGator said:Listen, you don't have to try and prove your fuzzy math for film financing in Europe. You keep going off track. Let's refocus for a moment. Besson already publicly announced that the screenplays for the next two sequels to Valerian were either underway or completed. If Valerian WAS actually financially viable then we'll see a sequel. If NOT, we won't. You can believe whatever you want for now but time will tell whether your speculation is accurate or not. You already know which side I stand on.
So you think that making comments on a film and an industry that you obviuously don't want to understand is smart ?
It's your right if you don't want to know how european movie industry is working but then just don't comment....
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32 minutes ago, KGator said:
no need to continue to speculate about the miracles of creative financing when all we have to do is wait for our answer.
No miracle : 99% of european productions are financed with the help of public incentives....
No Speculation: all public contributions to national movies are published in reports accessible via internet
It's not because you don't understand something that it doesn't exists...
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50 minutes ago, KGator said:
So your point is . . . . . ?????
This movie is a success and we are going to see sequels? Because this is a "Valerian" thread, not a Besson accomplishments thread.
My point is that you should never analyse the financial success of european movies like you do for US movies. And most of all you should never make any conclusion on potential sequels or bankrupt of a studio only based on commercial results because there are some investors in Europe (CF Tax Shelter System) who doesn't care at all that the movie will be successfull or not. Best proof is that since 20 years the only sucessfull movie of Luc Besson is Lucy and he was able to fund som high budget production like Arthur, Joan of Arc and Valerian without too much problems.
47 minutes ago, Manchester by the Tree said:No, his point is that despite the film being a box office bomb it won't necessarily lose money for certain parties.
Thank you for making the effort to understand.
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4 hours ago, KGator said:
First off, the actual contracts are not public knowledge so the details are mere speculation and no publicly shared company is going to admit how bad something is for fear of hurting their stock. Public statements from different parties seem to indicate that Europacorp is actually on the hook for the marketing portion in some countries (which can be considerable in today's market).
Tax credit for european films are public and easily verifiable. Valarian has introduced tax credit request in France and in Belgium reports are public and available on the net (link posted in previous post).
90% of french movies are not profitable and french cinema is only viable because of public incentives. Luc Besson became a kind of master in tax optimisation and public funding. It is also important to know that a big part of Valerian's budget was spend in order to rent studios in "La Cité du Cinéma" all this money ended in the Pocket of... Europacorp (as main exploitant of the studio).
Perfect example of non profitable movies followed be multiple sequels :
Arthur and the Invisibles (2006) --> directed and produced by Luc besson
Budget : 86 m$
Total Gross: 107m $
1st sequel
Arthur and the vengence of Malthasar (2009)--> directed and produced by Luc besson
Budget : 80m$
Total Gross: 51m$
2 sequel
Arthur and the war of 2 world (2010)--> directed and produced by Luc besson
Budget: 85m$
Total Gross : 50m$
Total Budget of trilogy : 250m $
Total Gross: 210m$
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5 hours ago, keysersoze123 said:
Awesome post. @Barnack is definitely among the best posters at BOT.
Still this movie is a disappointment though it was hardly surprising. It would be ridiculous to make a sequel to this.
Wouldn't be so sure... rember the flop of "Arthur and the invisibles" ? Well Luc Besson did 2 sequels (even more unsucessfull)....
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On 21/08/2017 at 1:48 AM, Barnack said:
Would be curious to see that newspaper (think I found it:
French movie that asked for state help devis are public, no ?:
I'm not sure why we would doubt the 197,47 M€ it is directly from the Centre national du cinéma.
It is doing well enough in France for that for sure
See my former post. Valerian was also funded by Tax Shelter sytsem in Belgium via Belag Film Fund (could be up to 30m €).
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Don't forget also that belgian production company "Belga film" is co-producer of the movie which means that they benefits from the Tax Shelter system in Belgium which allows producer/invester to get tax credit up to 310% of their initial investement. In this system investor don't care about the commercial success of the movies (90% are not sucessfull) they only care about tax credit. The bigger the investment is --> the higher the tax credit. It seems that up to 20% of Valerian's Budget was funded via this system.
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3 minutes ago, juni78ukr said:
According to Deadline Europacorp paid at least $40 mln for marketing in USA. And they will get $20 mln at most and have to pay distribution fee to STX. Already at least 20 mln loss. Don't you remember how The Golden Compass with the same strategy killed New Line Cinema? And that movie grossed close to $400 mln worldwide with similar budget.
And I think the whole "most of the budget covered via presales" is a bullshit. That means that every distributor from a major market like UK, Germany , Russia or Japan should have paid at least $4-6 mln. No one in right mind would do it. And if they really did it they losses would be horrendous. Just imagine that 90% of foreign distributors will lose money thanks to Besson and his passion movie. Even if somehow Europacorp survives that mess they wont make such an expensive movie for a long time.
Variety and Deadlines are US propaganda bullshit and are stating everything and the countrary to bash the movie.
Main investors for the film are :
- Orange (main TV and telecom operator in France) --> for french TV "Première" and use of Valerian marketing for selling their products
- BNP Paribas (French Bank) --> for use of Valerian marketing (goodies , TV spot and pictures and Credit cards)
- Fundamental (Chinese distributor)
- Qatari Gulf Film (qatar distrubutor) --> because in France Qatar is ready to spend millions in order to get visibility... (they spend 220m€ to by Neymar Junior for the Paris Saint Germain and they own a huge part of the building in the city center of Paris)
Again Europacorp will certainly not produce a sequel because it's NOT a commercial success (altough Besson just stated that if the film reach 300m$ global he will do Valerian 2) but Europacorp still have some Franchises like Taxi (highly popular in France), Taken (TV show under production) or Lucy that represents a value for investors.
VALERIAN AND THE CITY OF A THOUSAND PLANETS | 184.7 M overseas ● 225.9 M worldwide
in International Box Office
Posted
Trying to analyse and understand doesn't mean we can't get over it... It means we want to make smarter comments than yours...