LordNox
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Posts posted by LordNox
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The bombing of Shazam is further proof that Aquaman was very much a fluke for the DCEU in Asia. Other than Aquaman the DCEU is a pretty small and unpopular franchise in Korea and China compared to the MCU. Not even Wonder Woman managed to do MCU numbers in Asia.
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50 minutes ago, Matthew said:
Huh.. That's why Brie Larson praise Wonder Woman so much. Go look at her tweets during Wonder Woman release, she was praising it so much.
She praise ld Wonder Woman in her CM interview.
If I am right Zack Synder took dig on Thor and Ant Man
David Ayer at comic con said FUCK MARVEL
Kevin Feige never said anything bad about DC
Robert Downey Jr ridiculed Dark knight. Hemsworth And Brolin ridiculed DC. The lead actors are the faces of the franchise and the faces of Marvel are really scatering in their attacks on DC. Probably because its a good way to rile up their DC hating fanbase into a frenzy.
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Such a steep drop for a movie that recieved an A cinemascore seems very weird.
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Damn, I always expected Shazam to have a mediocre reception in China, but i still thought it would reach about 80M, but now it won't even reach half of that already small box office.
Shazam is most probably the most hated Superhero movie in many, many years in China.
If i would make a guess why Shazam is so hated in China i think its a combination of the humor not working at all, little action, demon possession of the bad guy. The personalities of the characters as well as the foster home setting probably doesn't work at all in China. Don't forget that China has a very traditional view on family and things like foster care is practically unheard of there.
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2 hours ago, Matthew said:
Repeatedly for 6 months
DC fans cried Shazam is the real Captain Marvel, Brie Larson not my Captain Marvel.
Body shamed Brie Larson. Called her names. Took her comments out of context just to prove their agenda.
Hell I know many DC fans who were saying SHAZAM WILL EARN MORE AT BPX OFFICE THAN CAPTAIN MARVEL
I am so happy that unlike other actresses who leaves social media after this much craziness. But Brie Larson stayed on social media and never listened to this trolls.
And, today Brie Larson is the Queen.
She got lot of praise from many Avengers also for speaking for Representation and diversity. She is fantastic.
Shazam is the real Captain Marvel, he was created in the 1930s, decades before anyone else with that name.
Shazam being the real Captain Marvel does not on the other hand make him more popular than current Captain Marvel. Being the first and the real one does not equal popularity.
And ironic that you are so happy about Shazam failing in many countries when Zachary Levi spoke so many great words to people about Brie Larson and told people to love her movie, Brie Larson on the other hand did not return the favour and Shazam being a much smaller movie probably needed that more than the other way around.
The trend is that people involved with DC always praise Marvel while most people involved with Marvel engage more in endulging their fanboys by talking crap about DC. DC actors are always very respectful to Marvel, while the other side feels the need to hype up their fanbase by hating on DC.
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3 minutes ago, mulderfox said:
Well i guess in your logic Captain America 1, Thor 1 was huge flops then and Ant-Man also had a mediocre to bad performance.
I never understood the argument that because Marvel movies are much more popular nowadays any superhero movie should be big today.
There is no evidence that DC movies benefit globally from the Marvel craze, if that was the case most DC movies would have done a lot better at the box office.
The fact that people go crazy at Avengers and other Marvel movies doesn't automatically translate to them caring about a small superhero movie made by another studio. Look at fantastic four, power rangers and now Shazam for that example.
As of now the only DCEU movie that has come near the Marvel craze overseas is Aquaman.
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It does seem that WB only heavily marketed Shazam in some countries. I live in Europe and have seen no tv spots or other marketing for Shazam. Seems WB never thought Shazam would be liked overseas. In the US it seems that WB put much money into marketing Shazam, probably because they knew that the American box office would make or break Shazam.
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According to Mark Hughes from forbes from an article today, Shazam only had a marketing budget of 40M:
How reliable are forbes when it comes to such figures?
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2 minutes ago, HouseOfTheSun said:
Dismissing the second most important movie market in the world just because the movie flops there...wow
I am not dismissing China at all. The fact is just that Shazam would never have been a hit in China, the style and humor of the movie was not made to cater to Chinese tastes. Shazam would never be an Aquaman in China.
Everyone has remarked about Shazam being a distinctly American catering movie, with much less appeal overseas. Which means that the makers of Shazam obviously had their major focus on the domestic market when they made Shazam. Every million more earned from China would then be more a bonus.
China will get more of what they want from DC when Aquaman 2 is released. The chinese taste in movies is so specific that the likes of Rampage are seen as much better than Star Wars there. Its a very different market with very different taste in movies.
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5 minutes ago, expensiveho said:
A $ is a $ no matter where it comes from.
Sure, US ancillary market is better than China and all emerging markets, but they make it up with market growth (meaning $100m could do $150 with the sequel without breaking out in a big way).
That's why SW being completely irrelevant in Asia and LA is a big worry for the franchise, no matter how huge it is in traditional markets.
Shazam! will still make money, but trying to deny this could change sequel plans (especially given how reactionary DC is) and even the Black Adam movie is ridiculous.
I mean changing what a Shazam sequel would do in Asia is pretty simple; Add much more action in the sequel so it becomes a normal superhero film there. If that is something Shazam should do or not is another question all together. After all Shazam catered to American tastes and earned an A in cinemascore, so to change that liked formula just to please Asia may be right from a box office perspective, but still questionable.
Of course its important to grow in Asia but for smaller scale movies like Shazam the domestic box office will be much more important. Even if it earned the max it could do in Asia Shazam would never be a hit there, its in the US that Shazam had potential to be a well revieved movie.
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7 minutes ago, Omni said:
Explain how a superhero movie opening at 70M in ALL OS markets but China is "very good". It is not good in absolute terms, it is not good relative to expectations, it is awful considering the incredible strength of the genre. It is decent only when you look at the budget.
At this point, I declare Dumbo a success, too...
What expectations? Shazam has been tracking low ever since they started tracking it. It went from a predicted 40-45M opening to a 53M opening. The studio obviosuly never believed that Shazam would be a major hit, which is why they didn't give Shazam a normal superhero budget.
Fans had too great expectation at what Shazam would do. But the trades and WB own estimates have always been low, lower than the actual it recieved at the box office.
WB will be pretty content with a 380-400M gross, which will earn them some tens of million in profit after streaming and home video sales.
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28 minutes ago, ZeeSoh said:
I see you repeating this ridiculous thing again and again everywhere. Most movies and studios will kill for an extra 12.5m in profit.
Amongst 2017 movies, Get Out and Guardians 2 had total estimated profits of about 125-150m. 12.5 million would be a massive 10% of the total profit. And these were the 9th and 10th most profitable movies of 2017. A vast majority of movies made even less profit than this and that extra 12.5 million would be an even bigger chunk. Movies from 2017 like The Great Wall, Justice League, etc which were in a loss would kill for that extra 12.5 million.
You speak of 10-12 million like its nothing as if you are walking around with a mil in each pocket. Is China as important as the Dom market. Hell no, but it is the most important OS market. And it is growing, which is why studios spend so much time and money to promote their movies there. Thank God you dont handle the marketing of movies.
And stop it with the nonsense of China only likes big CGI fights. Thats a tired and debunked theory on this board. You dont even need to go far back into the past to see that that's not true. Green Book has so far done a massive 70m in China which is only 14m less than domestic. Movies like Coco, Zootopia, Dangal have all done tremendous business without any action whereas movies like TLJ, FB2, etc all failed despite all their CGI and action.
Of course i am in full agreement that every million more you earn in profit is important. But Shazam never struck me like a movie that would have been well recieved in China, it uses mostly American style humor as well as having little action, demon possession and other things the Chinese dislikes. I don't think WB expected more than 70M gross from China and sure its coming way under even that estimation.
Some movies will just never click in China, and i don't think every movie made should be made to cater to the pretty unique movie taste of the Chinese. At the end Shazam was a well liked movie in the US and some movies should be made to cater predominantly to American taste in movies, which Shazam did.
My end point is the fact that Shazam getting a sequel will not hinge on how it did in China but how it will do in the US.
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The fact that Shazam is well recieved in the US may be what leads to a sequel because a sequel to a well recieved movie would lead to the sequel growing domestically to something over 200M.
If they put more action in the sequel it will probably gross more overseas as well. Except for China and Korea Shazam doesn't seem to be a hated movie in other countries at least.
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10 minutes ago, PenguinHyphy said:
Shazam is doing fine in the USA. It is not going to lose any money. To claim that China is unimportant because it was not going to break out there anyway is outrageous when Shazam has not broken out anywhere.
What i am saying is that Shazam will get 12,5M in profit from China instead of 25M. Is that a big deal?
And China seems to have a unique hatred for Shazam. In other countries its doing similar figures to Ant-Man. China only likes movies with action and big CGI fights. Which is why Transformers are so loved there.
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7 minutes ago, cax16 said:
China is a massive market that is super important. Sucks that Shazam didn’t do well there but to downplay the market cause the Studios’s only get 25% is absolutely ridiculous.
But the fact remains that China is really only a profit dealmaker at the box office if a movie breaks out hard like Aquaman did in China. Otherwise China is only a nice bonus. Shazam loses about 10M in profit from bombing in China, which is bad but nothing much really.
From a profit point of view Shazam doing good in the US is much more important, while doing good in China would have been more of a bonus.
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By bombing in China Shazam is "only" losing about 12,5M in profit. If Shazam had played out like a normal solo superhero movie in China it would have grossed around 100M and thus earned a profit of 25M from China. Now Shazam will earn only around 12M of profits from China. But either way not large sums of profit either way.
Its much more important for Shazam to do well in the US were the studio keeps 55 % of the box office returns. If Shazam had bombed in the US and done well in China that would have been terrible for Shazam's profit potential. Luckily that didn't happen.
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I have a theory regarding the major difference in audience appeal for Shazam domestically and overseas. A difference that led Shazam to get a good A cinemascore in the US but terrible reaction from audiences in many countries.
The director of Shazam said that he made Shazam from inspiration from classic American 80s hits like the Goonies, Ghostbusters as well as you can find thraces from Donner's Superman in Shazam. All of these movies where very well liked in the US and nostalgia from those movies are big in the US. That means that for many Americans watching Shazam there is major nostalgic reasons for them to connect with the story, music and characters in Shazam.
For overseas audiences who never saw those old movies the major reasons for why Shazam was liked by American audiences suddenly disappear. They don't get any nostalgic pleasures while watching Shazam at all. For them Shazam is only an action less superhero movie with not much going for it compared to all the other superhero movies they have seen the last 10 years.
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I have a theory regarding the major difference in audience appeal for Shazam domestically and overseas. A difference that led Shazam to get a good A cinemascore in the US but terrible reaction from audiences in many countries.
The director of Shazam said that he made Shazam from inspiration from classic American 80s hits like the Goonies, Ghostbusters as well as you can find thraces from Donner's Superman in Shazam. All of these movies where very well liked in the US and nostalgia from those movies are big in the US. That means that for many Americans watching Shazam there is major nostalgic reasons for them to connect with the story, music and characters in Shazam.
For overseas audiences who never saw those old movies the major reasons for why Shazam was liked by American audiences suddenly disappear. They don't get any nostalgic pleasures while watching Shazam at all. For them Shazam is only an action less superhero movie with not much going for it compared to all the other superhero movies they have seen the last 10 years.
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3 minutes ago, ZeeSoh said:
4th Day (Saturday)
Captain Marvel - 1,001,714 (+142.5%)
Ant-Man 2 - 821,769 (+103.65)
Thor Ragnarok - 662,646 (+109.4%)
Fantastic Beasts 2 - 433,684 (+87%)
Aquaman - 378,681 (+108.3%)
Justice League - 347,934 (+89.8%)
Wonder Woman - 356,552 (+131.3%)
Suicide Squad - 298,947 (+35.9%)
Shazam - 159,711 (125.9%)
As I said earlier, it had a good jump today. Bested only by the two ladies above in terms of % jump (there could be other SH movies that jumped even better on their 4th day but I am not gonna calculate it for every movie :P)
Total is up to 376,189 admissions. Depending on how it performs tomorrow, it could break the 500k mark.
PS: Suicide Squad was crazy frontloaded over the weekend. It just keeps falling and falling
PPS: Captain Marvel's Saturday was bonkers, over a million admissions!
Why do you think this large jump happened for Shazam? With the toxic word of mouth that Shazam seems to have in Korea it seems odd that it would have any bump there at all.
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10 minutes ago, Fullbuster said:
That's weak, there's no other words for this unfortunately. My $5m OW prediction is probably dead, and it wasn't a particularly optimistic one. $3-4m OW?
It seems that Shazam is really only a movie that is enjoyable for Americans sadly. The humor, story and characters in Shazam seems to be hard for many except Americans to connect with for whatever reason.
The lack of major action scenes are also probably a major problem for Shazam overseas. Because what audiences over the world want most from superhero movies is action and stuff happening, and Shazam probably offers the least of that when it comes to this genre.
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At the end of the day as long as studios are only getting 25 % of the profits from the chinese box office whether a movie grosses 50M or 100M you are still dealing with pretty low profits.
Of course its a nice bonus to gross as much as possible but in the end its really only a huge deal for the studios profits if a movie breaks out hard like Aquaman did in China. Now instead of Shazam earning 25M like it would have from a 100M box office in China Shazam will instead earn 12,5M from a 50M box office. Still mediocre sums of profit either way.
Aquaman and Venom on the other hand profited much more from China and its only when you hit those sums that China is a profit dealmaker at the box office. Of course any million more you earn in profit is good but about 10M less in profit than usual for a small scale superhero movie is pretty insignificant.
Not even Deadpool's humor worked at all in China while it worked great all over the world, so not that strange that Shazam's humor failed to connect with China.
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17 minutes ago, mulderfox said:
Come on man Captain America 1 made 370 million from a budget of 170 million and was considered a hit. Shazam cost 80 million will likely make that too if not more. Thor 1 budget was 150 million made 449 million and was also a hit. You seriously don't think Shazam will be a hit too and get a sequel too ?
That is actually a great point. If Captain America managed to make a profit from a 370M box office with a 170M budget its literally impossible for Shazam with a 90-100M budget and a probable 370M box office to not turn a profit after home video sales and streaming.
Sure its disappointing that Shazam is bombing in Asia but its much better from a box office perspective that Shazam is doing relatively well domestically instead of Shazam bombing in the US and doing well in China.
WB will likely earn a bigger profit from Shazam than they did from Rampage, due to budget reasons and because Shazam will do better in the US than Rampage did.
As long as you only earn 25 % profit for the studio from China its only if you do very bigs sums in China like Aquaman did that makes China important for your box office profits. Otherwise you are looking at pretty small profit from China even if the movie reaches 100M there.
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41 minutes ago, TMP said:
This is the most depressing box office run for me since Blade Runner 2049. Which was in turn the most depressing box office run for me since Edge of Tomorrow.
If WB didn't distribute/advertise any of those three, maybe they would have had a fighting chance. Maybe they'll just stick to making nothing but Aquaman sequels from DC from now on.
I agree its a huge bummer. The score sheet for DCEU movies is that Aquaman was the only one that managed to break out hard overseas. Not even Wonder Woman managed to do great numbers overseas. This means that overseas audiences only wants Aquaman style movies from DC. So WB will probably not greenlit movies that are similar to Shazam in the future, but will instead go more for the likes of Aquaman spectacle with poorer dialogue and script in the future. The huge success of Venom oversess was a warning in what kind of movies that are able to break out overseas.
This is a stepback for the DCEU going for more Marvel style appeal overseas and also a stepback for the kind of DCEU movies we will see in the future.
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Weird how different taste in movies people have over the world. Shazam got an A cinemascore in the US so Americans enjoyed it. While Shazam seems to be seen as trash in China and other places.
Maybe the Goonies vibe Shazam was aiming for only works in a small number of countries?
Hopefully its domestic results can save the movie at least.
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Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology
in Box Office Discussion
Posted
So Downey Jr hated on Nolan's Dark knight because of BvS when his comments came years before BvS being released? The faces of the MCU hate on DC movies because they know their fanbase enjoys comments that hate and ridicule DC. Had they said anything good about a DC movie the MCU fanbase would come out hard against it.