Highever
-
Posts
45 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Blogs
Gallery
Annual Subscriptions
Media Demo
Posts posted by Highever
-
-
That 1.2 which goes toward the weekend *I think* may be pretty big in determining the number one for the weekend.
-
1
-
-
If Rogue One overtakes Finding Dory, can anything stop a Star Wars threepeat at the domestic box office?
-
3 minutes ago, Rey said:
You have a very... Distinct posting style. I'm not sure if you're trying to be a caricature, but just, just... Keep it up
-
1
-
-
11 hours ago, Grand Moff Tele said:
Sure, Luke had gone through some formal training with Yoda at that point. I'm not trying to argue an exact match, or even any sort of power-level type status, merely that what we've seen of Rey so far more-or-less matches what we've seen in other key, Force-sensitive protagonists in the SW movie saga. Honestly, Luke in ANH probably wins all the medals for doing the most with the least concept or direction of what it is he's dealing with (and trying to control). But somehow that's never been an issue at all -- nor do I think it should be! What Luke did was awesome and cool and fun and a great movie experience. And so is what Rey did -- in a somewhat different capacity and with a somewhat different goal. I cheered Luke when I was a kid. I cheer Rey as an adult.
I think it's important to note that I am not approaching this from a storytelling perspective. I am approaching this from a canonical or lore perspective. In terms of relevant experience, in what is currently canon, Luke in ESB had infinitely more than Rey in TFA. He did have some formal training with Yoda, but there was far more to his journey than that. He had a few duels with Vader beforehand, and fought others with a lightsaber. Practiced his lightsaber technique, and force abilities. Rey had only picked up a lightsaber once before, and not to wield it in combat.
It would be axiomatically ludicrous to criticize Luke's path of development in ANH, as that is the event that sets the precedent. You can say that Luke's accomplishments are more impressive, but that is not what I am concerned with. Luke's major accomplishment before any significant investment of time in force training was in piloting. He was supposed to be a pilot, that was his character. The force aided him in making a shot the script claimed he made many times. If you claim this is more impressive, fine, but that is irrelevant. I will not stand to see Luke's piloting accomplishment compared, apples to apples, to Rey's dueling accomplishment.
Rey is categorically the least experienced duelist ever to duel in a Saga movie. Even Finn had more experience than her. Infinitely more to be precise. You try to parallel Rey's path with others, but this is no parallel to be drawn. You make the argument that other feats are more impressive, but that is not what I am concerned with.
I believe you highly underestimate Kylo Ren. He is a dark sided Skywalker. Descended from the most powerful force lineage the universe has ever seen. At least twice as many years in training as Luke when Luke 'beat' Vader in RoTJ. Hand picked by Snoke for his potential, called the killer of jedi because he canonically wiped the jedi out. Kylo Ren does not need to be Vader for the outcome to be questionable.
-
9 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:
Sure, Luke had gone through some formal training with Yoda at that point. I'm not trying to argue an exact match, or even any sort of power-level type status, merely that what we've seen of Rey so far more-or-less matches what we've seen in other key, Force-sensitive protagonists in the SW movie saga. Honestly, Luke in ANH probably wins all the medals for doing the most with the least concept or direction of what it is he's dealing with (and trying to control). But somehow that's never been an issue at all -- nor do I think it should be! What Luke did was awesome and cool and fun and a great movie experience. And so is what Rey did -- in a somewhat different capacity and with a somewhat different goal. I cheered Luke when I was a kid. I cheer Rey as an adult.
I will reply to this in about 12 hours or so. Be ready.
-
17 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:
Kylo Ren isn't Vader. Not even close. Rey may not be Luke at the end of EMPIRE, but she doesn't need to be. My references to Anakin were more along the lines of the Force usage that Rey seemed to benefit from (though she spent more focused effort on it than young Anakin, to whom it was all instinctive): the pod-race, flying an alien starfighter for the first time and -- while goofily screwing up -- managing to pilot it expertly and avoiding all damage while taking down a whole series of battle droids and a Federation master-control ship.
In terms of telekinesis (or in fact any Jedi/Sith-related talent), I wouldn't call Ren a master of anything. He is the dark version of Luke in, say, EMPIRE or so, without the challenge of facing an infinitely more powerful opponent.
I wouldn't call it meaningless at all, because for me the point isn't that she managed to defeat some Ultimate Bad Guy, but that she accepted the Force, embraced whatever her future destiny is, and actively took on the quest of seeking out her own master to learn from. Her defeat of Ren -- or, more to the point, her ability to survive a confrontation and wound him -- is icing on the cake, as well as the indicator that she does indeed have far more to her than she ever expected. In terms of it being addressed, well my goodness, isn't this why we have EPISODE VIII coming down the pipeline? TFA managed to do a great job, I thought, in answering many basic questions and drawing the first act of a greater story to a close, all while opening up a slew of greater ones that clearly will be explored further by the next movies. Will they answer them well? I have no idea... but it seems completely wrong to me to fault TFA for the lack of answers so far.
I accept that Kylo isn't Vader in Empire, but do you accept Rey isn't Luke in said movie?
-
54 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:
I can't believe you want to rehash this, but:
A- she wasn't "a linguist", she had picked up the same basic couple of random languages that other SW characters have done through the course of their lives, including Luke (who seems to have lived a more sheltered life than Rey). Is Luke a linguist? He understands at least some basic droid languages in A NEW HOPE.
B- she wasn't a particularly good duellist, but she managed to hold off an angry and and overconfident and wounded Dark Side-ish apprentice (who had limited formal training of his own) for a few moments and managed to strike a blow. Kylo Ren might have some Dark Side ability, but Rey clearly is Force-sensitive and also had some basic latent ability to explore it. Again, this is the same sort of case with Luke, not to mention Anakin, who (at the age of eight! or however old he was) had far, far more natural abilities.
C- see B. Luke's "training" at the beginning of TESB consists of five minutes with a training droid while Obi-Wan watched and a whispered "The Force is with You" during the Trench Run. It's about the same as what Rey had when she managed to unexpectedly do the same thing.
I've been a Star Wars fan for 35 years, roughly speaking. Not once did any of these concerns cross my mind until I wandered onto message boards and discovered a bunch of people suddenly bitching that a young woman -- who clearly is destined to be some sort of future Jedi or powerful Force-enabled person -- showed the few flashes of basic ability that had already been demonstrated by other major characters in previous Star Wars movies.
I also hesitate to use an appeal to authority, but in this particular case the movie was shepherded through production and co-written by someone who arguably has had as much creative power in the Star Wars universe as anyone not named George Lucas. If anyone (aside from Lucas) has the creative understanding and "right" chops to add a new character with the potential to become some great Force in the galaxy, it's Kasdan.
There is no desire on my part to rehash this. I only do what I must.
I will discuss her ability as a duelist. I find her performance in that final confrontation with Kylo Ren to be the most egregious. Luke Skywalker, in canon, had years of experience with a lightsaber before being soundly beaten by Darth Vader at Cloud City. His first feat with a lightsaber that you highlight was in canon replicated by four year jedi younglings. I don't know of any lightsaber feats Anakin showed without training, but he did eventually lose to Count Dooku after a decade of experience in the Jedi Temple. Dooku's experience meant more than Anakin's potential (even with substantial training) as the greatest to ever live and so on. Three years later, Anakin would win. He claimed his powers had doubled. From 19-22. Rey is 19, and Kylo is 29.
Luke demonstrably struggled with telekinesis months after being introduced to the force, but Rey would pull a lightsaber away from a telekinetic expert that minutes prior threw her in to a tree. With no experience doing so.
Kylo is not as untrained as you might think. He, at the very latest it is possible in canon, would have entered training at 23. Giving him 6 years.
As for Kylo's diminished capacity, let's discuss Rey's for once. It seems plausible that being thrown in to a tree and then falling 20 feet or so would impact performance in a duel. So would fighting in cold while being acclimated to a desert climate. Further, Kylo had shown that he could engage in swordsmanship prior to fighting Rey. That he could run, and that he could use the force. This is to say little of Rey having to transition from a staff to a lightsaber with absolutely no preparation.
I think there are fans far more knowledgable regarding the SW universe than Kasdan, fans that disagree with the outcome of this duel.
It is not my claim that Rey's performance is necessarily a problem. Only that it can become so. Defenders of this scene often highlight Kylo's diminished capacity in pursuit of discrediting the massive success of Rey, but in doing so they argue what is essentially the narrative finale of the film is meant to be... meaningless. This victory is either significant, or it isn't. What was it supposed to be? If it is significant, then Rey's ability requires address.
-
3
-
-
9 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:
Yes, just the way Luke was. These arguments were hashed out here 11 months ago.
They both had their piloting accomplishments. In addition to Rey's piloting, she was a linguist *droid and wookiespeak*, a duelist *never handled a lightsaber*, a telekinetic practitioner *never done it* etc...
In canon, if Rey were to have done what she had without training, she has far surpassed Luke. Heir to the Jedi portrays Luke struggling with abilities Rey picked up in moments.
-
1
-
-
8 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:
That could do it, complete amnesia of how she knows everything.
Also don't mind those who laugh at you for talking sense, they're just sensitive, anything negative about sws sends them spinning in their chairs!“[‘The Force Awakens’] was a bridge and a kind of reminder; the audience needed to be reminded what ‘Star Wars’ is, but it needed to be established with something familiar, with a sense of where we are going to new lands, which is very much what 8 and 9 do. The weird thing about that movie is that it had been so long since the last one. Obviously the prequels had existed in between and we wanted to, sort of, reclaim the story. So we very consciously — and I know it is derided for this — we very consciously tried to borrow familiar beats so the rest of the movie could hang on something that we knew was ‘Star Wars.'” -JJ Abrams
Lol, I'm as big a Star Wars fan as anyone else here. But, let's just say, the less I think about TFA, the more I like Star Wars. lol
-
1
-
-
Just now, IronJimbo said:
I'm not buying it at all, honestly it will be retcon just like muhclorians. Oh ye.. she can do everything and knows everything because.. uhm.. her parents are famous
In my opinion, they have to utilize a mind wipe. ...Questionable storytelling perhaps, but it preserves some Star War canon.
I hope that they realize her force display is problematic. I know the internal continuity people at Lucasfilm do. We'll see how much of a say they have. I also know JJ Abrams wasn't thinking of continuity when Rey pulled that lightsaber away from a telekinetic expert.... never having performed telekinesis before.
-
I've never said TFA was a 'bad' movie. Just that it was unoriginal and uninspired. And also that it may challenge some existing Star Wars canon in the process.
-
2 minutes ago, Daxtreme said:
@Christmas Baumer went over this a dozen times, but judging VII for its mysteries without seeing VIII and IX is a little premature... we have no idea who Rey really is for now, or where her powers come from.
This could turn in to a lengthy discussion, so I will just say further episodes have the opportunity to explain Rey's abilities, or keep her growth consistent. If her growth is consistent, she'd be goku, essentially.
This does not mean that these abilities cannot be problems.
-
1 minute ago, robertman2 said:
Anakin was the same
Anakin displayed mechanical and vehicular aptitude not dissimilar to Luke in ANH.
Rey displayed Force abilities and combat prowess with a lightsaber, untrained.
-
3 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:
I don't agree with any of this, LOL. Certainly not to the point where it can be argued as anything more than just your opinion.
It's certainly an opinion. I don't think there's much doubt that The Force Awakens was very similar to A New Hope. Abrams admitted as much.
As for Rey being... very advanced for someone without much training. This is a very common sentiment throughout the Star Wars fan community.
-
1
-
-
Some are right to be worried that the specialty or uniqueness of the Star Wars films can be compromised in a desire for profit. But this criticism is far easier to substantiate against The Force Awakens than Rogue One.
The Force Awakens is a mechanical, artificial, inorganic, formulaic, even doctrinaire film. Episode 7 could have been anything. It was a near carbon copy of A New Hope and Return of the Jedi. When Star Wars came out in 1977, George Lucas was a visionary. When The Force Awakens came out in 2015, JJ Abrams was a mechanic.
It does not help that The Force Awakens did much to call in to question the internal continuity of the Star Wars universe. Rey, for instance, is quite possibly the second coming of Christ, apparently.
-
1
-
-
My prediction of a 155m OW is looking pretty damn sexy atm.
-
3
-
-
I would just like to say, wow...
Edwards feels like he tried something. Unlike TFA where mechanic Abrams constructed a formulaic fast-paced hit your beats please the masses affair, this feels like it tried to be something special. Regardless of the result, I admire that.
-
1
-
-
2 minutes ago, Mattrek said:
For what it's worth they originally had a 65-70m range.
All I'm saying, is that I'd take the over on any of Disney's "projections, guesses, or predictions" until they are actually reporting data.
-
7 minutes ago, Alli said:
Box Office: ‘Rogue One’ Blasting to $140 Million-Plus Opening Weekend
http://variety.com/2016/film/news/box-ofice-rogue-one-star-wars-opening-weekend-1201944276/
The studio is estimating an opening day near $70 million, including the $29 million preview figure.
How recent is this? It's dated at 1:18... and how useful is a Disney prediction anyway? They notoriously lowball their success before delivering an actual estimate.
-
11 minutes ago, DAJK said:
So yea, we ended up with 45.9M in previews. Not expecting a crazy 278M weekend like with TFA. But somewhere around the 180-200M mark is plausible.
oh right, and I loved the movie
not gonna go too too in depth but really I only had a few minor flaws in some
of the editing (mainly in the sound) as well as a few... Special effects
45.9 in previews? Wtf, am I reading that right?
-
I figure I may as well give my prediction before the movie comes out.
I just have a hard time believing the thought line that TFA will be less pre-sales driven than Rogue One. TFA's uniqueness, I believe, generated unprecedented hype which manifested itself in unprecedented pre-sales. Pre-sales were likely so astronomically high because TFA was getting the general audience to buy in advance. If one posits the same pre-sales to domestic gross multiplier reached by TFA, then Rogue One is probably still the domestic box office champ for the year.
Now, I also don't think TFA's multiple was exceptionally unusual compared to something like Civil War, which may bode well for Rogue One. My claim, in its simplest form is that I am baffled that Rogue One's pre-sales can be interpreted as anything but a huge positive.
As for a weekend to final multiplier, I see no real need to deviate from the typical holiday release. Reasons to suppose it will deviate are largely based upon the claims that the pre-sales represent an unusually large portion of demand, reasons I believe are wholly incapable of being substantiated at this point.
I suspect the industry is lowballing the opening weekend total due to uncertainty, but I also don't want to assume too much variance. So, I will predict an opening weekend of $155m, with a typical multiplier of 3.3.
Final guess of $155m, $512m.
not gonna go too too in depth but really I only had a few minor flaws in some
Pirates 5 biggest OS movie of the year
in Box Office Discussion
Posted
Out of course, but not bad kid.