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Crainy

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    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    Wow, those last few pages are an absolute travesty. As soon as Endgame overtook Avatar, people descended upon this thread like a rapid pack of dogs and the immensely disrespectful shitposting just would not stop. No worthwhile discussion to be found anywhere.

     

    About the JCS scholar thing: I dont really care about if he had alt-accounts or not and I dont think its that important. As long as he has interesting thoughts to share and contributed to the discussion in a constructive way, which he definitely did, its fine by me.

     

    Im glad this board has now shown its true colors. When I joined here, I had hoped this would be a place where more measured and fruitful discussion about movies can take place, but now I realize that this board is pretty much the same as any discussion board on the internet. It just seems to be that in openly and easily available discussion board, most of the active members just do not have enough knowledge about movies and art, or basic etiquette for that matter, for wortwhile discussion to take place. So I guess Im leaving here because this board isnt what Im looking for.

    • Like 1

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Hydrogen said:

    It's actually a little bit sad to see Avatar deposed by something as corporate as AEG, it's like movie making is going the way of video games, where Fifa and COD just keep coming out each year and selling millions. 

     

    The numbers were so insanely manipulated too I think it shows Disney really doesn't care about much, even Iger and Eisner have said  plainly that Disney is about making money and nothing else. 

     

    Here's to another hundred live action remakes and Marvel movies eh. I wonder when they'll move onto the 1960s to start dregging up old cultural icons for us all to consume again :whosad:

    I mean you are definitely right, AEG is the most corporate a movie can be. Marvel movies have always been the very definition of assembly line productions and just like with video games, people less knowledgable about the art form suck that stuff up. And thats something that can really be seen in most markets: Shallow, streamlined products that appeal to a very broad audience are generally speaking the most successful.

     

    About AEG breaking Avatars record: I always thought it was a possibility that this could happen, though theres no doubt the way it ended up happening is definitely not the achievement that it could have been. Basically what Marvel did is they just kept Endgame in the cinemas until it rolled slowly passed Avatars record in a wheelchair. I know that Avatar was very long in the cinema too and had a re-release aswell, however, both of these things were due to the fact that there was a large continued interest in people wanting to see the movie, as such Avatars long run and re-release was a natural response to the demand of the market. This wasnt the case with Endgame, the movie was basically just unnaturally kept on life support to break an arbitrary record.

     

    And thats the real thing about this: The unadjusted record is arbitrary. Adjusted for inflation, Avatar still eclipses Endgame by a long shot (and there are movies that still eclipse Avatar by quite abit). You can bring up exchange rates and stuff all you want, but as I said before that stuff is already accounted for in alot of "adjusted for inflation" measurements. Thats the reason why I dont think this particular record is noteworthy. Avatar completely eclipsed all other movies unadjusted when it came out and thats why it was a big achievement, because it said something about the success of the movie in the cultural environment it released in. Thats where I think the value of measuring an unadjusted record lies. And if Endgame eclipsed Avatar by a long shot, the same could have been said for that movie aswell. However, the way it just barely rolled past Avatar while on life-support isnt a big statement in Endgames favor. This way its just a very successful movie that passed an arbitrary number, but its not a statement about its cultural relevance.

    • Like 3

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

    Difference between Avatar re-release and whatever this EG thing is that Avatar didn't do it to pass movie X. It was already #1 dom, OS and WW but they felt that AIW cut its 3D run short and that there was interest in seeing it in 3D by those who missed it first time. so it wasn't a chase for the record since it took all records. it was "lets make even more money if we can".

     

    The reason why even media is giving Disney/Marvel the side eye is because this stunt is clearly aimed at taking down Avatar since that didn't work without re-release that isn't really re-release but a warm up for re-release should we need it if this doesn't work. In short, act of desperation. They aren't fooling anyone. Mind you, it's their right but by doing this they admit that their movie couldn't do it despite enormous opening advantage it had. 

     

    As a fan of marvel, I'm a bit embarrassed for them. Like, if it was a normal re-release, fine. many movies do it. But this is just, eh, desperate. especially if they go with a normal re-release later in the year. 

    Thats one way of putting it.

     

    One thing I really dislike about this whole thing is how disingenious it feels. EG couldnt beat Avatar unadjusted and when adjusted for inflation, it didnt even come close. Pretty much all Marvel fans really wanted that record too, but seeing how its out of reach now, SUDDENLY its the admissions that are the most important, even though noone talked about them before? Thats just embarrassing.

     

    Marvel fans have to ask themselves, if they have to move the goalpost 12 times over in order to get an edge over Avatar in anything, what is your record even worth, even if you should get it? Not to even mention that when counted by admissions, neither Avatar nor EG even hold the crown so its kind of pointless.

    • Like 5

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Crainy

    21 hours ago, Alexdube said:

    All this talk about admission would be more interesting if Titanic didn't exist, at best that makes Endgame #2 at one more thing and Cameron is yet again untouched.

     

    Even then, Avatar's run is just unquestionably more impressive. Its crushing Endgame all across Europe, in Russia, Japan Australia... all markets that were already mature. By so much I might had that exchange rates don't matter.

     

    Meanwhile Endgame is mostly doing better in places like the Philippines that had like one theater screen when Avatar released, or China that increased its theater screen count by a factor of 10. By the way are they still selling Endgame tickets for 1$ or something in Mexico?

     

    One more thing about Avatar, the fact it sold at a higher % in premium formats is to the credit of the movie, people wanted to see it in 3d and wanted to see it AGAIN in 3d. They sold you something you couldn't get anywhere but at the cinema. Consequentially, the number of admission is smaller than the average movie relative to its total gross, but it doesn't take away anything from the record.

     

    MCU stans should stick to highest grossing, it's the only thing they have a remote chance of winning

    These are all really good points. It didn't even occur to me that when counted by admissions, neither Avatar nor Endgame would be in the first place anyway, even though it's actually quite obvious. 

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    On 6/20/2019 at 2:29 AM, HeadShot said:

    Well to bad, cause it is right. Charlie already did a breakdown with exchange rates which proves that EG outgrossed Avatar. Also exchange rates are NEVER accounted for when adjusting for Avatar inflation - if that was the case then the total gross would be much less than 2,7 billion. 

     

    Charlie is about to do admissions breakdown in the upcoming week but he's already stated that EG outdid Avatar which is believable considering that Avatar made most of it's gross due to 3D tickets which are much more expensive. 

    Yeah, you are just talking bullshit man. Avatar is the bigger movie, both unaccounted for inflation and especially when accounting for inflation, where Avatar is so far ahead that no amount of exchange rate differences matter. What you are saying is just numbers twisting to get to a result you prefer and its meaningless. 

     

    And yes, adjusted for inflation often DOES account for exchange rates. Infact alot of "adjusted for inflation" lists are often times misleadingly titled. They are less about inflation and more about accounting for all factors that could screw with the monetary numbers. Their purpose is more to get a closer look at "tickets sold" rather than money, especially for older movies were those numbers just aren't available. 

    • Like 3

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Crainy

    14 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

    Exchange rates is different from inflation. The dollar was worth less in 2009 then today. So whatever money it made OS is heavily inflated. EG already outsold Avatar in admissions. It's over. Cameron lost.

    Yeah, this doesnt sound right. Show me receipts and I believe it, but its pretty clear from the data that measured by tickets sold, Avatar absolutely outclasses EG and its not even close.

     

    Additionally to that, the exchange rates are often times part of the calculations when measuring adjusted for inflation and they show Avatar beeing in a completely different ballpark to EG. Its not close.

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Valonqar said:

    You said you barely remembered anything but turns out you remember everything just fine, more than barely. ;)

    I wouldnt say knowing the basic plot outline of a movie qualifies as "everything". Unless your assessment is that Ant-Man turning into a baby is everything there is to it to that movie, in which case we are in agreement.

     

    Anyhow, if this re-release is just in the US, I dont think it will matter, I cant see it making another 50 million just in US on one weekend. Its barely a re-release, the movie is still playing where I live. If its WW, then it has a shot.

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    We never saw it coming: Disney is actually trying to perfectly match Endgames box office to that of Avatars. Then BOTH are the most successful movie of all time. And the extra scene added to the end of EG in the re-release will be Thor landing on Pandora, revealing the start of the combined Avatar Marvel Cinematic Universe. The theater erupts into cheers as artistic integrity hides in the corner, pretending it was never there.

    • Sad 1

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Crainy

    Endgame rerelease? Sure, lets see how that goes.

     

    But isnt EG still in the cinema? I mean, if you consider that the movie has barely finished its run, it could just be that this mean the "rerelease" will not make significantely more than any movie that has entered its 6th or 7th week.

    1 hour ago, cdsacken said:

    I actually hope they do that. Rerelease EG to pass Avatar.

     

    Then in 2021 or whenever it's absolutely confirmed it will come out rerelease avatar 1 to break the record and build hype. It's a smart and cheap way to advertise and energize the fanbase. It's just a nominal figure anyways, Titanic is #1 and Avatar 2 of the modern era for inflation adjusted WW totals.

    Avatar has made more money worldwide adjusted then Titanic, if I recall correctly. Also, if what you describe actually happens, that would be hilarious and an incredible power move by Disney.

    Terminator: Dark Fate | Nov 1 2019 | Estimated to lose 122.6M

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Juby said:

    Schwarzenegger: You will see it. But I don’t want to get too much into that at this point. I think the studio has learned from the last time that they gave too much away of the story, so they want to keep it more under wraps this time around. What I will say is I play a great T-800 again and it was fun to have Linda Hamilton back. The new team was willing to do the work in preparing. They worked their asses off in the gym, I helped them with their training, a lot of them. I was happy the trailer that came out had a huge impact and people responded positively.
    - Arnold Schwarzenegger

     

    Could someone write to Arnold to change his internet? Because he obviously don't know what he's talking about. :wacko:

     

     

     

    Positively :sarah:

    Only because you can link 3 bad youtube videos here doesnt mean the trailer wasnt received positively overall.

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    35 minutes ago, NCsoft said:

    True indeed, there is currently another small narrative shift in the OS thread of people "neutrally" conceding that it's impossible to tell whether Avatar or Endgame had a more impressive run, it's just too close to call -_-. For some reason, a movie grossing less than a movie 10 years ago in a global market that's actually 40% bigger is "too close to call" and "equally as impressive".

     

     

     

     

    Yeah sorry, but this isnt even a contest. Endgame had an impressive opening, but at no point during its run did it ever stand the chance of reaching Avatars run when adjusted for inflation and other factors.

     

    Its becoming increasingly clear that Avatar wasnt just a huge run in our current times, but will remain one of the most impressive cinema runs for pretty much the rest of time, like "Gone with the Wind". Those two movies are just in a league of its own. They were able to capture the imagination of basically an entire generation and populace, regardless of demographic.

    • Like 2
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    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, VenomXXR said:

    For what it's worth, I do hope Avatar 2 can hit the lofty numbers that a lot have predicted in this thread. I just don't believe it will. 

    When Avatar came out, it was only the second film I saw in theaters 3 times (the other being TDK). That was my highest amount until TFA came out (5 times). I'd really love to see it hit $4 billion, or maybe have Avatar 2-5 do the Avengers series x 2. All of that would be awesome to see 😃

    Yeah, I think so aswell. I think its sorta unlikely Avatar 2 will be able to reach Avatars gross, its not impossible, but I think its unlikely.

     

    What I think is more interesting, now that Endgame has failed to outgross Avatar WW, what movie ever could reach that? Endgame was the ultimate weapon from one of the most successful and long-running movie franchises to date and it failed to reach Avatar and it was the only movie to ever come close. This basically makes it a lock that no movie will reach Avatar for atleast a decade, possibly even several decades, until inflation does its thing.

     

    I think this endgame thing puts Avatars success in an entirely new light: Its not only one of the two most successfull movies in cinema history, but, when adjusted for inflation, like "Gone with the Wind" its possible that no movie yet to be released will ever surpass Avatar again. Or atleast not for a very, very long time, as in many many decades.

     

    In a way, Avatar could probably be looked at as the ceiling of the maximum a movie can make in our current times.

    Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:12 PM, Deep Wang said:

    Dude, you are talking to the people that have already locked in $3/4B for the Avatar sequels, lol.  They have counted the eggs before they were laid!

    I remember you were the guy that argued with me that Endgame beating Avatar is all but certain, to which I replied that it's far from certain and all the people celebrating early will feel pretty fucking stupid. Guess I was right. 

    • Like 4
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