AnotherDayAnotherDollar
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Posts posted by AnotherDayAnotherDollar
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29 minutes ago, DlAMONDZ said:
Looks like the first tone was indeed lightning in a bottle
It had a lot going for it:
First MCU hero that was not white
Infinity War hype
No terrible Disney+ shows that oversaturated the brand
Civil War appearance
If you are right then Captain Marvel 2 is in for a rough ride.
2 minutes ago, jedijake said:Anyone able to see the dislikes for the trailer on YT? I had the extension but for some reason now it isn't working.
It's certainly not getting the unwarranted reactions that Little Mermaid got and is nowhere near the level of the hatred that Rings of Power has gotten.
But, at the same time, I too am not seeing, hearing, or feeling of excitement and anticipation that both NWH and DSiMOM got months before release.
But yeah it was me who said I didn't sense the hype before the trailer. I just didn't get the sense that there was THIS much of a lack of hype!
668K likes/ 61K dislikes
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YT trailer views is pretty tepid. Probably the lowest one I've seen for an official trailer for a Marvel movie in a long time.
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Can't believe they got Namor flying with his little wings lol.
First trailer was better, but it was gonna be tough to beat that one no matter what.
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3 minutes ago, jedijake said:
I also hope we don't get an onslaught of sexists and misogynists complaining and doing a hate campaign because they feel the movie is too female driven.
There's a 99% chance this will happen. There's also a high likelyhood this will be review bombed.
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1 hour ago, Deuce66 said:
LOL!!!! no, if I want cookie cutter factory product maybe.
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From Reynolds accounts alone:
The initial announcement has over 36M views and the explanation has over 9.5M views on twitter and over 8M and 3M views on youtube. Number 1 and 2 trending on youtube.
This is gonna be big unless they make a stinker of a movie.
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7 minutes ago, Inceptionzq said:
Oh how I hate 3D. I hope Avatar 2’s IMAX showings have some 2D.
They definitely will.
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53 minutes ago, CloneWars said:
I think there is a strong chance of this hitting $500M DOM.
Not sure about that, but being the highest grossing R rated movie of all time seems likely. I also am looking forward to this vs Joker 2 coming just one month apart.
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Just now, IronJimbo said:
you can't tell left from right can you?
If you say so. Still doesn't change the fact 20th owns the copyright and trademark to the product and own the IP. Your denial doesn't change that.
You can ask a lawyer to explain IP ownership to you since you're having a hard time.
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4 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:
https://aughtonainsworth.com/news/differences-between-copyright-and-intellectual-property/
copyright and intellectual property are not the same, Jim owns the IP simple as
Yeah you don't understand how any of this works. Someone on this thread earlier mentioned the difference between copyright and trademark. You own both you own the IP. 20th owns both.
There's zero evidence Cameron owns it and overwhelming evidence 20th owns it. Hate to say it, but your hope that Jim owns the IP doesn't make it so.
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42 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:
That is a very weird comparison to make.
Disney owns both IPs. They are hands off on them. You can choose another IP they own if you prefer.
6 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:https://casetext.com/case/dean-v-cameron-2
Dean vs Cameron NOT Dean vs Fox.
All this copyright talk is not relavent to the fact Jim owns the intellectual property.
It seems like you don't know how to read a legal document. From your own link:
QuotePlaintiff William Roger Dean, a successful artist, brings this action against James Cameron, the renowned writer and director; Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation; Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment; and Lightstorm Entertainment (together, “Defendants”).
And again being a defendant on a legal case does not equal ownership. You can be liable for things you do not own. You saying "this copyright talk is not relavent" shows you do not understand copyright, trademarks, IP laws and ownership.
All you are relying on is hopes and dreams, thoughts and prayers. I know it sucks but Disney owns the IP through 20th.
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4 hours ago, IronJimbo said:
Where's JCS when you need him I don't have time for this. Shame he gone. I trust the scholar with all Avatar related info and he's told us already that Avatar is owned by Lightstorm.
You're yet to show proof Avatar is owned by Fox / Disney, that's just conjecture based on this
AvatarⒸ 2022 20th Century Studios
James Cameron's Avatar is a trademark of 20th Century Studios. All Rights Reserved
This does not mean Fox owns the Avatar IP my friend
I must admit I certainly did not expect to receive a reply where someone is putting their hands over their eyes and ears and just going "nuh uh".
Claim to the copyright and trademark is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, evidence of intellectual property ownership. Conjecture is saying someone owns an intellectual property because they were named a defendant on a lawsuit where said document explicitly stated that all rights were transferred from the named defendant to another company that now owns it. Actually that's not conjecture that's just spouting stuff since one can be legally liable for damages for a property they do not own. You being in denial does not change the facts. If you want to prove the claim is wrong provide evidence to the contrary. Saying nuh huh is not sufficient.
IIRC this JCS fella contacted me and we had a conversation about this very topic. He asked to go over DM. We did. He asked to go to Discord. We did. All he presented that was new was a linkedin profile about a Director from Lightstorm that works with licensees on creative designs for anything Avatar. He stopped replying to me when all the evidence that 20th Century owns the IP was presented to him. If it's a different guy or he has anything new to bring to the table we can have that conversation again.
3 hours ago, IronJimbo said:1. you're making an assumption that fox owns "the" trademarks and copyrights
2. says who
I don't understand this post. Dude goes from "nuh huh" to "according to who".
One cannot legally make a copyright and trademark claim on distributed merchandise/movies/websites/games/etc they do not own. Try to do that and see how fast you get a cease and desist from the IP owner. Furthermore you can search copyright and trademark owners online in the US, if a public claim is not enough for you.
https://www.copyright.gov/public-records/
https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search
Find anything in there (or similar authority in another country) that says the copyright or trademark belongs to anyone but 20th and we can go from there.
At this point I have to assume you are arguing in bad faith or have no understanding of how IP law, copyright and trademarks work.
You can take solace in knowing that Disney will probably treat this IP like a lot of other IPs they own and be pretty hands off. Best example is Kingdom Hearts and Sora where Disney has owned that IP since its inception but Square Enix has been in charge creatively since its inception.
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4 hours ago, IronJimbo said:
Jim & Lightstorm got sued in this, not Fox. You're posting evidence against what you're saying.If that's your "evidence" then it's pretty weak.
The court document specifically says the rights were transferred to 20th Century. 20th Century has also been named in lawsuits because of Avatar and all C and TM for all products in all media are all 20th Century.
20th Century owns the IP. It's pretty obvious.
4 hours ago, Deuce66 said:In terms of the ownership debate I'm leaning towards 20th Century Studios. Look at the back of the most recent comic book Avatar: Adapt or Die #5
https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/3010-228/Avatar-Adapt-or-Die-5#prettyPhoto[3010-228]/1/
at the bottom of the pic
Avatar - 2022 - 20th Century Studios
James Cameron's Avatar is a trademark of 20th Century Studios. All Rights Reserved
There is no mention of Lightstorm Entertainment or any other James Cameron owned company that would indicate sole proprietorship of the Avatar IP/Brand. It's clear that 20th Century has a stake in Avatar, the question is whether it's a controlling interest. There's no evidence yet that anything Avatar related gets done without James Cameron's approval. If and when that happens then we'll get the true answer. I would think Disney/20th Century would be exploiting this IP to the max, we'll see in the years in that follow if it turns into Star Wars or Marvel or remains tightly controlled.
Correct. You're missing something though. The bottom says
AvatarⒸ 2022 20th Century Studios
James Cameron's Avatar is a trademark of 20th Century Studios. All Rights Reserved
This is true of EVERY single product in EVERY single piece of media. Videogames, comic books, theme parks, exhibit, novels, etc etc etc. Every single one of them says the below or something similar:
©2022 20th Century Studios. JAMES CAMERON'S AVATAR is a trademark of 20th Century Studios. All Rights Reserved.
If Cameron had any claim whatsoever we'd see something like we see for Wizarding World or for Spider-Man movies which shows the below or something similar:
TM & © WBEI. WIZARDING WORLD Publishing and Theatrical Stage Rights © J.K. Rowling.
© 2021 SONY PICTURES DIGITAL PRODUCTIONS INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
MARVEL AND ALL RELATED CHARACTER NAMES: © & ™ 2021 MARVELBut we don't because the IP owner is solely 20th Century. We know the licensor (i.e. the IP owner) for th merch has been Fox.
https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/52860-mattel-is-master-toy-licensee-for-camerons-avatar
QuoteTwentieth Century Fox Licensing & Merchandising (Fox L&M) has selected Mattel, Inc. to develop a toy line inspired by one of the most anticipated films of the year — James Cameron’s Avatar.
C and TM indicates ownership. Anything else anyone is saying is hopes and dreams. I ask anyone to find anything on Avatar that gives the IP C and TM to ANYONE besides 20th Century.
2 hours ago, 4815162342 said:I just want to clarify that trademark and copyright are not the same thing. 20th Century Studios holding the trademark with respect to derivative material related to the 2009 film and subsequent films, such as the logo, etc., is not determinative that it owns the copyright to Avatar and derivative works (as opposed to a license).
For example, JK Rowling owns the copyright to Harry Potter. But Warner Bros. almost certainly holds the trademark for material connected to the HP films, FB films, etc.
The subsequent picture you have indicates that 20th Century has the copyright most likely to that specific toy/model, since the back of the comic material does not have a copyright symbol, just a trademark notation.
20th owns the copyright and trademark. Warner's ownership of Potter is split.
https://www.avatar.com/ is the website for the franchise. On the bottom you see the copyright and trademark owner. It also has links to TOS, Privacy Policy etc in line with other sites owned by Disney (i.e. marvel.com, starwars.com, disney.com, etc). If you go to a random licensed game by Disney (i.e. marvelstrikeforce.com then you'll see that site is owned by the 3rd party since they own the software for the license).
The Mercedes partnership shows © 2021 20th Century Studios | © 2021 Mercedes-Benz.
Mercedes owns part of the copyright for that product as is the case on a piece of licensed property. The other copyright claim is the 20th, the IP owner.
I have looked for quite awhile for any piece of property that has copyright and/or trademark on this franchise for anything but 20th Century. I never found it. I would be happy to see someone provide some evidence to the contrary.
6 hours ago, Alexdube said:Difference is Feige had nothing to do with the creation of Marvel so I don't think this is a 1 to 1 comparison. And if I'm Cameron after I made a movie like Titanic, I know any studio will fight over working with me, so I can easily negotiate my terms. I imagine he would still have to make some form of concession if Fox is going to pay the bills and own all the risk, but would he put himself in a position where the studio just keeps him in control because they like him? Could they easily boot him off and replace with somebody else? I can't imagine if Fox had such a strong hold on the IP they would have waited 13 years for a sequel to the highest grossing movie of all time.
At this point I think the only answer that would satisfy me would have to be from an industry expert or Cameron himself
That also depends on the contract he had for Titanic. No one believed Titanic and that's why Fox split the risk with Paramount. Fox could easily have put a rights of first refusal for Jimbo's next movie on that contract, but that's hearsay on my part. We don't know. As far as if 20th could boot him off and replace him I also don't know because Jim could have asked for creative control until he died to transfer the rights or something.
What I do know is that Cameron could not go to Warner Brother or Netflix and create a new movie or show. I do know that owning the Copyright and Trademark for something = you own the IP.
It's fair for you to hold whatever standard you need. Chances are you won't get that though because it'll never come up on conversations.
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11 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:
No it's not technically correct to say Disney owns Avatar, as they don't.
I would be VERY HAPPY to see some evidence that they do not. Care to refute what I posted in the previous page?
All evidence points that Disney does own Avatar through 20th Century.
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14 minutes ago, Alexdube said:
I'll concede it's probably technically correct to say "Disney owns Avatar", although how much do you really "own" an IP if another party has creative control? I'd still be curious to see the detail of their arrangement
Kevin Feige has creative control over everything Marvel (except games) FYI.
And mind you me saying that is my guess on the details. I would think Disney would prefer all things Avatar be helmed by Cameron the same way they'd prefer all things Marvel be helmed by Feige.
To see details of the arrangement you'd have to be high level exec at TWDC.
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Was this posted?
https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1568720097082068996
Landau thinks that Pandora is a place where you can tell an infinite number of stories. Mentioned they already have ideas for other stuff.
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9 minutes ago, Alexdube said:
Not trying to be a smartass but is there concrete evidence that Disney fully owns the intellectual property?
Cameron famously sold the rights to Terminator for 1$, but that's a compromise he made to have his first real job as a director (Piranha 2 don't count). And that's something he regretted in a way because he didn't have control over the franchise and we know what happened after #2.
I can't imagine he would have negotiated the same kind of deal with Fox after directing something like Titanic, he doesn't have to sell his soul anymore. He must have retained some control over the IP. I'm not an expert on intellectual property but I don't think it's as simple as "Disney owns Avatar" in this case
On the flip side there's no way Fox would ever spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a property they don't own after they got played by Lucas with Star Wars.
I will take the burden of proof. Like I said above all C and TM are 20th Century Fox or 20th Century Studios. Can you find any property in any media for the Avatar franchise where C and TM are anything but 20th Century Fox or 20th Century Studios?
QuoteA decade later, in 2005, Cameron revisited the idea of making Avatar, and Lightstorm transferred all rights to the project to Twentieth Century Fox.
https://www.scribd.com/document/124001146/Avatar-ruling
Can you find any evidence that the rights have not been transferred?
That's not to say he doesn't have some control. He probably had the request to have creative control over the property for a specified period or as long as he is alive or something before transferring the rights, but the owner is 20th Century. Or Disney through 20th Century. As far as I can tell Disney has more ownership over Avatar than they do over Spider-Man.
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1 hour ago, Alexdube said:
Do they? Isn't that like saying Warner Bros owns Harry Potter and not JK Rowling?
1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:Is there concrete evidence to support the idea that Avatar is owned by James Cameron, and that if he wanted to, he could take the franchise elsewhere?
All evidence points that Disney owns it through 20th Century. JKR owns some of the rights to Wizarding World. WB owns some other rights. There are some court document stating that all rights were transferred to Fox in the 90s or early 2000s IIRC. I can go through it in more detail if you want to DM me because I don't want to derail the thread, but ⓒ and TM for every single Avatar product in every media available that I have seen is to 20th Century (for example https://www.avatar.com/) . The same is split for Wizarding World (for example https://www.wizardingworld.com/).
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25 minutes ago, Eric-occhio said:
*Avatar 2 trailer is exclusive to Doctor Strange*
"wow this is so cool. it's nice to see it on the big screen before everybody else does"
*Avatar 2 trailer is exclusive to Avatar re-release*
"OMG DISNEY ARE ALL MORONS. THEY WANT THIS MOVIE TO DIE. CAMERON HAS TO LEAVE RIGHT AWAY FOREVER D:"
I swear some of you weirdos want to be annoying about this movie, jeez louise.
It's not like Cameron can take Avatar if he leaves since Disney owns the IP, so what would he do if he leaves?
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This D23 has been pretty underwhelming. Games panel sucked. Disney/Avatar showcase was okay at best. A few new projects and logos shown around, but that's it. Marvel Studios, nothing new really besides a couple of trailers. Same with Lucasfilm. 20th Century Studios was just an Avatar chit chat with Big Jimbo. No FX. No Searchlight.
They better have some major bombs for the park tomorrow or this D23 will probably be the crappiest one in its history. And they better have another Investors Day in December to drop some bombs.
11 minutes ago, Valonqar said:D23 Wall of Shame:
Emmett Kennedy
Campea
Skylar Shuler
Daniel RPK
Jordan Maison
Great Phase
Tom Smith
Charles Villeneuva
CanWeGetSomeToast
The Living Tribunal
Den of Nerds
The Disinsider
CineStealth
Justin Kroll
You are missing a lot of "insiders" and "scoopers" on that list. Where's Mikey Sutton? Grace Randolph? Nick Santos? And so many others.
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I didn't expect what I saw lol. I will leave it at that.
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On 9/4/2022 at 10:26 PM, SpiderByte said:
I'd also expect that we get news, either this week or in the coming months, about Disney buying the streaming licenses for the previous 4 movies. Because it's definitely gonna happen, question is how soon before 5 comes out that they do it.
That would be money that Disney would have to throw down the drain for marketing reasons. They wouldn't get the money back from such an acquisition. Indy movies have already made 90%+ of the money they'll make in the Supply Chain (probably 99%+).
No one will sign up to Disney+ because Indy 1-4 are on it. No one will sign up to Paramount+ because Indy 1-4 are on it. They are value adds, for sure, but not the reason anyone would sign up for the service.
On 9/4/2022 at 10:42 PM, lorddemaxus said:Eh, Paramount would probably rather keep the 4 films on Paramount+.
Also this. Paramount does not have to sell at fair market value. They do not have to sell at all.
On 9/5/2022 at 10:53 AM, SpiderByte said:Except they don't make money on 5, and they would make money on a licensing deal for the other 4.
Paramount does make money on 5.
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What about Avatar vs Maverick Domestic? Right now I honestly don't see Avatar making more than Marverick domestic.
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Watching GoT and getting hyped hearing that intro theme made me realize that Avatar does not have an iconic theme that I instantly recognize unlike most of my other favorite franchises. Not that it matters much but I just noticed that.
Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny | June 30 2023 | Very mixed reviews out of Cannes
in Box Office Discussion
Posted
My guess is that it'll be CGI Indy forever as soon as doing so becomes financially feasible and they solve the Uncanny Valley issue (biggest issues to me are the mouth, eyes, and putting a young face in an old body, i.e. Captain Marvel).
This article gives some good insight on who owns the likeness to these characters and everything else.
https://aublr.org/2022/04/the-deep-fake-of-dorian-gray-who-owns-the-likeness-of-luke-skywalker/#_ftnref21
Disney (and presumably other studios) are preparing for the Digital CGI future. Actors have been signing their voice and likeness away too. My guess is that's probably a requirement now to be part of a big franchise. Biggest pushback will be from the audience, but with us getting more and more used to deaged characters and characters digitized from dead actors it's just a matter of time.....we are the frog in the boiling pan.