danziger
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Everything posted by danziger
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I have no idea really, never paid attention to them before.
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We've seen enough examples of that in reviews so far that I think it's a significant trend. But of course those are critics seeing it because it's their job. Very difficult to get non-Avatar fans in the general audience to pay up & devote 4 hours to it, especially in this climate.
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Another rave review from a channel with 2 million subs: It's a sports channel, so hopefully indicative at least of what WOM will be for that male demo. Judging by the first 5 minutes GameXplain (1.3 million subs) also gave a very positive review, with some criticisms.
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So evidently the final battle doesn't come down to saving the entire world like so many blockbusters these days, but for me that sounds refreshing. I'm ready for something that has more personal stakes. Aliens' ending was basically moms fighting for their children and that turned out ok.
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I haven't followed box office in many years and haven't looked at presales or other relevant stats, so can't make any credible predictions, but I'm inclined to agree with you just because I've always felt Avatar was similar to SW, E.T., Jurassic Park in being a unique event that no sequel could even approach. It used to be that only original movies became #1 all-time box office hits, sequels were inherently too limiting in appeal due to the missing novelty factor. Of course Marvel changed that because of its collective superhero power but Avatar doesn't have that, it would need Cameron somehow creating lightning in a bottle AGAIN.
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Reportedly the production budget is $350-400m. If that's accurate + maybe $200m for marketing, no way is $1.5 billion the break even point. Only if you're trusting Hollywood accountant math. And as hw64 said, the other sequels will likely have lower budgets.
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$2 billion means we're getting Avatar 4 & 5. That will get most Avatar fans celebrating. The rest of this stuff is just noise.
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I love the optimism and respect people going out on a limb with their true beliefs even if I can't follow. Would be much easier and safer to predict $2 billion - that's still way more than was generally expected outside this forum, and of course many have been saying for years that it will flop.
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That could also explain why TWOW won't do nearly as well as some here have been expecting. If my memory is accurate, Avatar skewed significantly older than most big budget blockbusters, and that was a major reason for its extraordinary success. Now a lot of those people have either passed on or are much more inclined to wait for streaming.
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Yet another Critics Choice member praising the story and saying TWOW surpasses Avatar:
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Found a fun blast from the past of what it was like on imdb forums before Avatar's release: "The biggest box office flop in movie history. After this movie is released film studios will say don't Avatar this or don't Avatar that. Parents will tell their kids, we can't afford that, do you want us to Avatar our bank account."
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Yeah, that's clear from how critics are saying TWOW is way better than Avatar, yet it's cratered on MC compared to Avatar and based on usual trends will probably fall below it on RT as well. No movie has been more creatively pummeled over the last decade than Avatar. Yes, tons of movies get far worse reviews, but they are quickly forgotten. Avatar we're constantly told year after year day after day that "no one cares about Avatar, it sucks, no one wants these sequels." So you're right that the potential for the sequel to get trashed by critics was huge.
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Thanks for the review, hope you have a much better time if you see it again.
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For balance, here is a very negative review: https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/avatar-the-way-of-water-review-a-bad-big-loud-shiny-mess but once again it's from someone who never liked Avatar. It's also the most critical review I've seen of the visuals, not just the HFR but saying the Na'vi look bad and bemoaning Jake & Neytiri's "physical unattractiveness." Edit: Forgot to warn people this review is extremely spoilery.
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Critics Choice & HCA member, RT-approved: Amazing how so many love this way way more than the first Avatar, yet somehow people are acting like the reviews are disappointing and mixed.
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This negative review got bizarrely personal: "an uncomfortable truth about Cameron: He might preach environmentalism and balance, calling on Indigenous peoples for their gentle worldviews and material culture. But at heart, he’s just as aggressive and all-commanding as the bad guys he portrays with such oorah swagger." The truth is out: James Cameron is a real-life supervillain!
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Another reviewer who was critical of Avatar's story but absolutely loved the story and character work in TWOW: "This is one of the best films he's ever directed, with a much stronger story and connection between these characters than I've probably ever seen in any of his movies."
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There's a hilarious "takedown" attempt of TWOW by a channel with nearly 200k subs, calling it "the worst big budget movie ever" and the guy hasn't even seen it yet, he's just cherrypicking bad reviews to say it's being "raked over the coals" and predicting it will flop. He says "I'm gonna be laughing this whole holiday season at James Cameron's ego." 🤣 I won't link to it since it deserves no promotion but thanks to these people for making Avatar's success all the more satisfying.
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I hope Cameron doesn't cut the run time for future sequels because of complaints over TWOW's length. Yes it hurts box office but quality is always far more important. Maybe my opinion will change after seeing TWOW but I've never seen a Cameron original cut that was too long or dragged at all.
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I don't know I barely follow WC. It starts 10 am est Sunday. Game will probably last 2-3 hours depending on if there's extra time but if it's like the Super Bowl it will probably be a whole day party for many fans.
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I don't know about the World Cup but if it's like most other sports, underdogs from small cities/countries are bad for ratings. I expect France would get higher ratings. But most fans will probably watch for Messi regardless.
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He also said he had trouble telling the characters apart because "the Na’vi all look so similar." So his review is a fair warning for people with severely impaired vision.
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Reminds me how people used to talk about Armond White. He wrote the most bizarre, incoherent Avatar review I've ever read.
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No one is saying everyone liked the story. I'm saying the consensus isn't that it's narratively "standard stuff." Way too many glowing reactions about how emotionally powerful it is and how they love the characters. On the other side no doubt a sizeable minority dislike the story.
