Royce
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Posts posted by Royce
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39 minutes ago, adaros said:
It' ok bros.
Avatar 3 will be now released as anime.
Are you referring to this one?
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Yeah MCU fans are overhyping Secret Wars like they did with DS2, imagining about cameos that never happened
Aren't the MCU X-Men debuting after Secret Wars? And bringing back Tobey and Andrew won't have the same effect as seeing them together for the first time in NWH (for me personally, I still felt the novelty/excitement/nostalgia effect after multiple rewatches but it inevitably wore off like a month ago)
Then the Phase 4 momentum killer... yeah
So I think fake concern trolling or wishing for A2's underperformance is weird. This probably our last chance to see an exciting all-timer box office run for a very long time. There will be breakouts next year and after that for sure but none are all-timers.
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So many people keep mentioning that this movie (specifically the last act) is way more emotional than the first movie
I have really high expectations now because that scene where Neytiri puts on the oxygen mask on Jake's face, saving him and seeing him in his human form for the first time... still one of the most touching scenes I've ever seen in my life. An unconditional and universal love story that transcends space, time and worlds. Cried as hard as I did when Old Rose slept peacefully and went back to a resurrected Titanic and saw all those people and Jack again. The fall of the Home Tree was also very emotional. I don't remember seeing that in Pocahontas! Avatar's story is quite underrated if you ask me lol
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The spoilers I'm most interested in are about Kiri and her powers as teased in the trailer. I saw in a TV spot that she controlled some plant to immobilize a robot (don't know the name or term lol). I know that her character wasn't fully explained or her origins but yeah I wanna know what she can do.
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7 hours ago, daftcat said:
Avatar is no more full of clichés than any four quadrant blockbuster - particularly in recent memory. Its story is no more archetypical compared to the deluge of comic book movies that have been released over the last decade or so (as much as I enjoy them). Yet that's the reductive narrative that has emerged from the ashes of the first film, and it's only fermented in the interim. And the more cash and awards this one rakes in, the worse it will get - just as it did with the original. It may even intensify for future sequels now that the novelty of a new Avatar movie has worn off - I wouldn't be surprised to see the fourth or fifth film scoring outright negative reviews, despite no obvious drop in quality.
For whatever reason, everyone seems to love Avatar - except for a very vocal, persistent, and perhaps growing minority of the online discourse that seems hellbent on applying a much higher standard to this than to other blockbusters. Perhaps that's earned, given the Cameron name. And I do see similarly high standards applied to other prestige directors (e.g. Nolan - though I think he earned the flak he got for Tenet)… but it can be a bit frustrating. And it's weird that it comes from both high-brow cinephiles that see the film as a vapid technical exercise and an affront to cinema, and the more mainstream fans that get triggered by the notion that Cameron's filmography harkens back to the golden age of blockbuster filmmaking.
I'm glad someone else notices this, excellent analysis!
As I previously discussed, I think it has to do something with Avatar's general misanthropy and cynical view of the human race. It's a mirror for all our negative qualities as a species and shows our impending doom and the consequences of our ancestors' greedy, selfish and imperialistic actions (still ongoing btw!) and many people just aren't comfortable dealing with that. And then it introduces a new alien race that's supposedly more pure and noble than us evil humans.
Hence why most people "forgot" what the first movie was about. It's also interesting that the most vocal haters are the fanboys of the most idealistic franchises (Marvel, Star Wars) that are Avatar's antithesis in a way. The young male (usually white) human saves the day (or the universe) in those stories. In Avatar, the protagonist had to abandon his own humanity to BE the hero.
More ramblings:
SpoilerAt first, I even thought that maybe it was because of James Cameron's perceived public image. Maybe people just want to humble the arrogant and ambitious (too ambitious) director who achieved (too much) success. After Titanic become #1 of all time, people started treating it like Twilight. It was suddenly "cringe", "only successful cause Leo's rabid teenage female fans went to see it multiple times". Then Avatar unseated it from its throne and became the new target. Titanic was re-released in 2012 and people acted as if they always regarded it as a classic masterpiece and never gave it backlash at one point. So that's why I don't think it's about James himself.
The same things also happened with Marvel around the time Infinity War and Endgame grossed $2B each. Suddenly lots of people came out (actors and directors) and called them "mere theme park rides" or worse (James Cameron ironically always said he liked the movies and even put out that congratulatory note for Endgame, so idk why MCU fans still see him as an enemy)
Anyway, then there's The Force Awakens which received similar criticisms to Avatar in that it's too "derivative", a carbon copy of another classic film and yet that sits in the 90s on RT! And it was never as lambasted as Avatar despite it still being the #1 domestic grosser of all time to this day. Out of all these examples, it's Avatar that got the most hate and is the most dismissed.
So yeah I stand by my theory about Avatar's misanthropy and foreshadowing our planet's future just repelling something subconsciously within people despite its other subconsciously appealing qualities (fantasy, beauty of nature, community, spirituality, romance, etc.) simultaneously and almost paradoxically making it the highest grosser ever. Maybe the fact that it's still #1 and not the idealistic pro-human favorites turns people off even more. Who knows if Avatar would still get the same amount of hate if it was just #5 or something.
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31 minutes ago, Issac Newton said:
People predicting $75M lifetime... See $100M drop from original!.. If drops are like Frozen → Frozen II then let's forget if Avatar 2 exist
Is there any general consensus (from Japanese people or non-Japanese people) on why Frozen 2 had a huge drop from Frozen 1?
I know it was still a big hit since it's #21 on the all time list
Do the Japanese GA just not like sequels now? Chamber of Secrets wasn't a huge drop from Philosopher's Stone but Azkaban was
So my theory is that maybe it's the more "adult", darker and mature tone (which was already evident from the very first teaser) that turned off some of the audience away from Frozen 2 (much like Azkaban did in its time)
Frozen 1 had more of a really cute and whimsical tone and tbh it gives me fairytale/magical girl shoujo vibes and combine that with a great Japanese dubbing and the unique "sisterhood" story and of course the mega hit power ballad, it's easy to see why it was such a cultural phenomenon in Japan
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I find it interesting that the actor for Loak hasn't appeared in any interview or public event so far when his character is seemingly the biggest role out of all the new kids. Maybe he has some sort of anxiety for big public gatherings? I kinda want to hear what he has to say about his role and interactions with other actors too, oh well
And another thing I want to comment on: The naysayers who are obsessed with "decline this, decline that" should save all these doomsday predictions for Avatar 3 instead, that's a more fitting comparison with Fallen Kingdom, The Last Jedi, Age of Ultron, etc.
I don't think JC is introducing a new novelty hook with the other sequels, at least A2 has the impressive underwater world/underwater motion capture and new characters. And A2 DOES have a nostalgia factor. Idc what users with Marvel profile pictures have to say about that, one good look at all the excited YouTube comments under the trailers is enough evidence for me.
But I'm also wary of their decision to make each movie a self-contained story. I understand that an episodic format will automatically lower the gross of the follow up but that format also benefits from a "finale factor" with the last movie at least (except for every Star Wars trilogy lol). I'm not aware of other franchises that has the self-contained format and what their box office trajectories are. It's a huge gamble.
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This is possibly the most 4 quadrant appealing film ever?
Jake and Neytiri = Wife and husband, mother and father
Their son and Kate Winslet's daughter = Teenage romance
Sigourney's character = Young Adult/Coming of age
Action, Fantasy (dragons, deities, etc.), Sci-Fi, Nature, Technology
There is something for everybody
3 hours isn't surprising when they're introducing this many character arcs
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6 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:
I doubt that will happen
If you're talking about Sigourney's character talking about hearing someone's heartbeat, I think she's talking about some form of connection to their deity, Eywa. Which is why she said she probably seems "crazy". She also seems to have some sort of power in one shot of the trailer where she put her hands up in front of her. And the glitter-like design (?) on her skin were glowing.
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Anyway I'm also part of the club that's waiting for the 4k trailer
There were blurry parts in this compressed version and it's annoying
But even with this quality and in 2D I can already see the appeal of repeat viewings for this movie. There's just so much to take in! I kept pausing the trailer just to revel in the details and beauty of each frame. Imagine what more for general audiences and in a huge 3D screen!
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Perhaps one of the biggest, if not the biggest reason that the first movie was and still is #1 and why the entire franchise will be huge is that you truly cannot "pirate" this film.
Endgame and No Way Home were so massive partly because of the experience of sitting next to a huge crowd and hearing the sudden cheers and rapturous applause when the Avengers were brought back to life and when Tobey and Andrew appeared on the screen. Each movie was a once in a lifetime cinematic experience (for superhero fans) for that reason.
However, those cheers were captured on camera and there were even YouTube compilations of the cheers from different countries. You could even hear them in the early bootleg recordings.
But with Avatar, you just cannot capture the... 3D lol
Or at least the groundbreaking visual effects in high quality. There is no point in watching the bootlegged version online because the quality of the visuals will be mediocre at best.
You WILL miss out if you don't see this in the biggest screen possible and in 3D, which it was literally designed for.
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48 minutes ago, vale9001 said:
Hp and Lord of the rings are really different. I'm not saying two horror movies or two fantasy movies can't cohexist.
In this particular case there are really a lot of similarities, it's very specifically.
So two fantasy movies featuring humans, wizards, magic, elves, etc. and are both based on books
are less similar than a comic book movie about human superheroes on Earth and a sci-fi movie about aliens in space?
The only similarity is that the Atlanteans are blue and they look like actors with body paint (at first glance), the human Wakandans are still the focus, not the blue people
The murky blue-green underwater scenes won't be similar to A2's lush underwater wonderland at all, and they're not supposed to
Again, both movies fulfill different purposes and I don't even know why I'm arguing about this pointless comparison
Btw, Aquaman 2 and The Little Mermaid come out next year as well, let's see how "similar" those movies will be as well! Won't both movies feature underwater kingdoms? /sarcasm
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Lol BP isn't gonna have an impact on A2's box office, people are gonna watch both films for different reasons.
No one is excited to watch BP just for the underwater scenes and the blue Atlanteans. The fact that most people got reminded of Avatar says it all. It'd only be a problem if it was the other way around.
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I think Spider (Jake and Neytiri's adopted human son) will be the breakout character of The Way of Water.
I already see interest in him and his potential story from many comments online and he stands out even just in the trailer just for the fact that he's human.
He might elevate many people's opinion about Avatar and in my opinion, here's why:
SpoilerI think one of the reasons why many people especially young people online reject and "forget" Avatar and its story and characters is because the film is misanthropic and cynical. The humans are the bad guys, they destroy planets. The main character literally abandons humanity because we are a lost cause and becomes a blue alien at the end of the film. There is no hope for humanity.
This is basically the anti-thesis to Star Wars, Marvel and the like where even the most ordinary human can become a hero with amazing abilities and save the universe (or multiverses). Humans always win. These movies feed the idealism and optimism of young (usually male) people. Notice how they are also the ones who have been the most vocal about their disdain or apathy for Avatar. It is really interesting.
And this is where Spider comes in (James Cameron is very smart). Spider will appeal to those who need a human face as THE hero. Spider will represent the best parts of humanity like how Peter Parker, Luke Skywalker, etc. do while still remaining human and not be some blue alien. Unlike Jake Sully who was a Na'vi for most of his screen time. Of course I'm not saying Spider will be anywhere near as big a pop culture icon as Peter or Luke. But his character will definitely be beneficial to the franchise and the overall story. His name is also memorable. One other factor why the GA can't remember any names is because the Na'vi have foreign sounding fantasy names that you've never heard before in real life.
I can already sense that some of the most emotional scenes in the sequels will be with him and his adoptive mother Neytiri who resents humans. Now that's a really interesting arc.
But of course this is all just a speculation and at worst, Avatar's sequels will just suffer the same fate as the first movie. Which is to make the most money out of any movie in history but be "forgotten" and downplayed in the 2030s when the magic of the theatrical experience wears off and can't be replicated on streaming platforms.
Side note:
Despite being misanthropic and cynical, Avatar still struck a chord with millions of people because of its universal themes and story. At its core, it's essentially a love story between a paraplegic human soldier and an otherworldly alien princess. That specific concept (a human loving an alien) is something I have never seen before and I am a sucker for star-crossed lovers. Jake and Neytiri's love is the link between the human world and the alien world and transcends race, species, planets and universes. Eywa chose Jake for a reason. People love that concept of "destiny" especially when it comes to romance. That comforting and beautiful concept is one big reason why every demographic got hooked aside from the jaw dropping visuals of the alien landscapes. Such a shame that a love story with such a grand and epic scale is constantly reduced to just "Pocahontas in space". I mean Titanic was just "Romeo and Juliet on a sinking ship" (although Titanic was also reviled and downplayed back in the day when it used to be the highest grossing film *wink wink*). The Lion King is just "Hamlet but with animals" too but I digress.
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Yeah the ironic "Avatar is forgotten" meme is so tiresome
Titanic - based on a real life iconic event that is commemorated yearly on April 15
Jurassic Park - based on a popular novel, direct sequel released 4 years later, another sequel released 4 years after that
Star Wars - direct sequel released 3 years later, another sequel released 3 years after that
Marvel movies - based on popular comic books, sequels, spin offs, etc. released every year
Avatar - based on nothing, sequel is yet to be released 13 years later
It should be compared to other original sci-fi films with no sequels like Inception, Gravity, etc. whose main characters are usually referred to as "Leonardo DiCaprio's character" or "Sandra Bullock's character" by most people.
Even the "dream within a dream" meme from Inception is not really mentioned anymore.
Yet Inception and Gravity never get called "forgotten" or "no cultural impact".
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3 minutes ago, NCsoft said:
I am good with Avatar: The Way of Water, but I'm a bit worried about Avatar: The Seed Bearer....🤨
MTE
I've always liked The Way of Water since the rumored titles came out years ago but I've always disliked the other 3 titles as well
I also thought the sequels would be called "Avatars" to sort of differentiate them from the original and make them more standalone but I guess that's too much of a change for the brand haha (for the parks and the video game as well)
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Based on the synopsis, I feel like one of Jake and Neytiri's children will die. ("tragedies they endure")
Which is why Zoe Saldana is moved to tears while watching the movie.
Maybe that will also bring the tension and drama between Neytiri and Spider (their sort of adopted human kid).
Jon Landau already revealed that she sees Spider as "one of the sky people who destroyed her home and killed her father" and so having her actual child die will probably heighten that resentment towards him even though he didn't cause the death of the child.
Of course these are just theories.
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From my observation, everyone who is underestimating Avatar 2's potential gross just assumes that the movie itself will just be the same old same old
And we who have been following every news article about this movie know that this is not the case
The new technology will recreate the "never done before, never seen before" novelty factor that made the first one THE must-see cinematic event of the 2000s
Can't wait to see how the characters will interact underwater in an alien planet's ocean with the new technology. Just trying to imagine it is already exciting.
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last day for all of them? so he's gonna die in 3? since 4 and 5 haven't been shot yet
also what am i looking at here
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Damn... with James Bond getting pushed back to November and more films likely to get pushed back too because of the virus,
suddenly I'm glad this is coming next December instead
James Cameron is most definitely psychic I would say
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I think it's interesting how an animated film that is heavily based on Scandinavian folklore and is set in Medieval Europe is resonating so much across different cultures in Nigeria, India, Taiwan, etc.
Tbh it just speaks volumes on the timeless and universal appeal of magic
I think it will continue to fascinate all of us forever
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I've always thought it was poetic that Infinity War and Endgame struck a chord the most with the most populated countries on the planet
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The concept artworks alone make Avatar 1 look like a small indie film in comparison
and we haven't even seen any artworks of the UNDERWATER/OCEAN scenes?
Oh my...
It's really hard not to overpredict this, $3B in my mind, always has been tbh
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I think it's pretty unfair to compare the ST to Potter and LoTR films which are adapted from BOOKS, the fans and GA know what to expect and everyone knows and agrees on what they want as a collective whole
Unlike with the ST this is the THIRD generation of films, released decades later after its initial peak, not based on pre-existing material and there's such a divide between OT loving boomers, prequel defenders/millennials, TLJ loving gen Z, etc.
OT is the only comparable trilogy for the FIRST set of films for LoTR and Potter
Prequels = Hobbit movies, Fantastic Beasts movies (which aren't doing so hot either)
ST = ???
The fact that the THIRD gen of this franchise in its 4th decade has an entry that topped the all time domestic list and $2B WW (the franchise repeaking for the 3rd time) is pretty amazing in itself
Will a Cursed Child live action film be able to boast such a feat? Oh wait, even the fans don't like that play that much
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3 hours ago, KP1025 said:
So is the Lion King (2019) an animated film or not? It doesn't seem like there is a consensus on the matter.
Disney themselves don't consider it to be animated...
QuoteThough Jon Favreau’s remake of “The Lion King” is entirely computer generated and earned $1.65 billion in 2019, Disney considers it a live-action reboot rather than an animated flick. Either way, the benchmark only solidifies Disney’s place as the preeminent force on all things animation — the studio is now responsible for the top three biggest cartooned movie of all time.
Most publications are now considering F2 to be the highest animated grosser
And it deserves that record way more than TLK 2019
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Barbie | July 21, 2023 | Warner Bros | Margot Robbie is Barbie. Ryan Gosling is Ken. | Second most profitable movie of 2023
in Box Office Discussion
Posted
I don't see it having 4-quad appeal (especially with older men) but it will attract a bit more people beyond its target demo thanks to the way it's marketed and currently perceived as a fun guilty pleasure party event that you can ironically enjoy with friends
And TikTok will be all over this movie if they aren't already