Chucky
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Posts posted by Chucky
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13 minutes ago, nguyenkhoi282 said:
And? I mean it still sold more tickets.
Yeah that's fair enough and I'm glad some were able to explain how but those who were around a few days ago know my main point was Avatar's run being the more impressive given the circumstances. It's like saying AOU's gross is more impressive than Spider-Man 2001 because it sold more tickets in all these expanded markets yo
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33 minutes ago, HeadShot said:
That doesn't mean they remember any relevant plot points or even something as simple as character names. It's comparable to remembering that you had dinner but not knowing the specific meal. The movie is forgotten in that sense. That's why the idea of a sequel is being mocked.
I cant remember any character names from District 9 (another 2009 movies) but it's still one of my favourite sci fi movies. I dont see how anyone can mock the idea of a sequel to a 2.8b grosser, to insinuate a sequel is a bad idea is rather stupid if you ask me. I find avatar has its fair share of haters from movie buffs due to its corny lines and familiar story but these same people were saying the same thing 10 years ago and it didnt prevent Avatar from being the success it was. I feel Avatar is something casual audiences eat up alot more than the serious movie nerds do which make up about 1% of movie goers and lets face it, those same people still end up paying for a ticket.
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32 minutes ago, HeadShot said:
Avatar tripling China's biggest movie at the time doesn't mean it would have tripled the record in 2019. That's ridiculous to even assume. It's also easier to triple a record when the market is still developing since the standards aren't that high to being with. The screens have increased but a lot of the of the Chinese audiences only watch domestic movies - specially in the rural areas.
There are tons of factors to consider when talking about Avatars gross. At the end of the day it's up to personal bias. I can sit here and say that a movie like Avatar would have never grossed as much today due to a variety of reasons and you'll disagree. We can argue over inflation, exchange rates and market growth all day - it wont change a thing.
Again though I've not stated that it would triple it today, I'm just saying what it's the equivalent to. China was the country if I remember correctly that had reported suicides over the movie. Imagine living in a country where western movies are rarer to come by then you are given a spectacle like avatar, naturally audiences will flock to it. You mention how Chinese prefer homemade movies but Avatar was causing people to boycott these China made movies when they pulled Avatar from cinemas, it had a huge impact there and James Cameron's influence there helped to get the government to relax their rules on foreign movies, which is why we have more Hollywood movies being released in China than there were back in 2009
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9 minutes ago, Taruseth said:
Exchange Rates. December 2009 £1 = $1.6, now £1 = $1.23. So £8.5 in 2009 were $13.6 and £10 now is $12.3. So higher in Pound but lower in $. Or if we take £11 = $13.53 so still a little below 2009.
From a pound perspective you are right, the expensive blockbuster now are more expensive than Avatar, same for €, but in $ in some countries Avatar had a higher ATP.
Also you should read the prior posts that point out that Avatar did good in countries with high ticket prices like Uk, Germany, Japan, France amounts others while Endgame did especially good in countries with lower ticket prices. See my example in a prior post.
So while locally in the Uk one thing might be the case WW it's different.
In Germany for example Avatar is far higher than Endgame but in most other countries it's below.
Ok so endgame seems to be killing admission wise in places where the market has expanded over the last 10 years, I guess that would make sense then. I mention this because I've seen alot of posts pointing out Avatars advantages back in 2009 but there seemed to be alot of ignorance when it comes to Endgame's advantages today in this market
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34 minutes ago, Taruseth said:
In Pound that might be the case but this is about a comparison in US-dollar and admissions.
Because for example ATP for Avatar was €10.14, while it was €11.25M for Endgame but in $ it was $14.3 for Avatar and just $12.5 for Endgame.
And for Avatar UK was the third biggest market behind France and Germany.
But the difference between the two is that Avatar did more than 2B in the high price countries (DOM, Europe, Japan, Aus and NZ) while Endgame did about 1.5B in those.
In other markets with way lower ticket prices Avatar did around 750M while Endgame did 1.3B and that is where the difference comes from.
Example (4th biggest OS country):
Avatar - Germany 11.3M adm $162M
Endgame - Brazil 20M adm $86M
Ok so endgame sold more tickets in places like Brazil but Brazilian box office attendance has increased from 112m in 2009 to 181m in 2017 (over 50%) so selling more tickets there comes down to an expansive market.
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21 minutes ago, terrestrial said:
wrong
80% is more than only high
depends on in which cinema someone goes at which times of day / which weekday.... how much surplus for e.g. overlength = not clear enough
I can say I've paid more for a high quality 3D screening of Avatar (a movie I've seen repeatedly) than for the one time I paid for 3D AEG (as told, I didn't like it, hence why I've seen AEG only once). It was in the same cinema to a similar time of day and so on in my case.
I watched Avatar 3d 6 times in 4 different theatre chains in 3 different areas (yes I loved its 3d) Empire cinemas, odeon, showcase and Cineworld, not once did I pay more than the £9.00 unless I paid the extra £1 for forgetting my glasses. Average 2d prices today tend to be around £9.25 to £9.90 or over £12 for 3d unless you go on a Tuesday or you're a student, I'm basing this off 2 theatre chains in my area right now. So I'm sorry but im not buying that I'm simply 'wrong', I remember it like it was yesterday.
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11 minutes ago, terrestrial said:
its a number provided by ppl with insight into the #
that is wrong for at least some countries.
Do not confuse average ticket prices with the ticket price a certain movie asked for.
Add the split how many 3d tickets were sold per movie (huge difference) and so on
It's from 1 guy, its not hard for a fan to round number the was he wants to for the purpose of supporting a movie they like.
I understand Avatars high 3d share but I've read on here the EU charged more for avatar tickets and considering I live in the UK (EU's largest market) I remember the price of watching Avatar in 3d and I know it was below the average 2d tickets of today so I'm going to question where these statistics come from as from the UK atleast it's not correct
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On 7/26/2019 at 2:49 PM, The Dark Samurai said:
I knew that a lot of people would have a hard time accepting Avatar going down but the level of ridiculously desperate excuse making is certainly eye opening.
Avatar sold 110+ million tickets less than Titanic, then sold 100 million tickets less than Endgame. I love how being sandwiched between two films selling 100 million more tickets is getting completely ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative.
Avatar had all the advantages over Titanic that Endgame supposedly has over Avatar and yet it sold 110+ million tickets less. Not to mention that the gimmick with which it made it's money would never fly today. I love that Avatar's selling point of 3D and CGI would have the exact same effect in 2019 where TV shows like GOT have better CGI nowadays and 3D is all but dead.
The arguments are now boiling down to the same nonsense a boxing/MMA P4P list would do. You would compare a 135 pound fighter with Mike Tyson and claim that if his relative speed and power carried proportionally to 225 pounds he would be better. Which makes perfect sense....in an Ant Man movie. The 135 pounder would lose all of his speed advantage when he packs 70 pounds on a 5'6 frame, the ability to take a shot would go down the drain, and his power would be silly compared to an actual Heavyweight. ''He would also be 6'1 in this scenario'' Aaaaa ok, so now a 5'6, 135 pounder would become 6'1, 225 AND retain all the advantages he would have as a small fighter.
That's what Avatar's rebels (Save The Dream!) are doing. Having all of the pros of 2009, and there are a LOT of them, including a ridiculous ER (Endgame would have made $3,5B with it) coupled with all of the pros of 2019 (like a bigger China market) but having none of the cons that 2019 would bring.
The reality is simple....Endgame made more money despite having a a lot worse ER and it sold 100 million more tickets. Take China out and it's still over 60 million more tickets. Everything else is sour grapes.
100m less tickets? Sorry do you actually have any evidence to support that or are you just going by an endgame fans dubious calculations? Sure Avatar would be on about 2.4b with today's exchange rates, take China's 200m haul off to make for a fair comparison to endgame and that's 2.2b (as China's ex rate has barely changed from 10 years ago) Take China gross from endgame and its 2.2b. Now considering endgame tickets are more expensive today than the 3d prices of avatars 10 years ago I'd love to see evidence of this this 60m ticket difference because its sounds massively exaggerated
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17 minutes ago, HeadShot said:
Do you have any evidence that the movie is remembered or are you basing it on your own opinion as well?
Well I'm sure there are scientific studies out there proving humans can remember further back than 10 year and I'm also sure there is evidence that the earths 7 billion inhabitants do not all suffer from alzheimers. I would find a link but it's just too dumb of an argument to put that much effort into
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22 minutes ago, HeadShot said:
Because it still ended up being the highest grossing movie of all time. It was bound to have people willing to pay for the home video. Let's not engage in revisionist history now. 3D was THE selling point of Avatar. Other movies weren't specifically recorded for 3D. Any other opinion is factually wrong and I'm not going to bother arguing against such dumb statements.
That's nice and I'd argue that it would have sold less tickets - since 3D was the main appeal. It would have also grossed much less due to 2D tickets being cheaper.
Any other opinion is factually wrong because a guy named dead shot on a movie forum says so lol. I never said it 'would have made this or that' today, I'm saying what its the equivalent to. Avatar tripling China's all time biggest movie in 2009 is the equivalent of 2b. F&f franchise increasing by 10times the amount support this. The 10x as many screen China has today has boosted box office by around the same figure, so avatars 200m in China back then is as impressive as 2b there today. To put in perspective, Endgame has made 615m there and isn't even this years biggest film there.
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15 minutes ago, HeadShot said:
Yes, I am aware that Cameron recorded the movie to look great in 3D (unlike other movies that just put a shitty filter over it). You can tell that he put all the effort into the visuals - hence why the script is utter garbage as not much effort was made there. The movie is forgotten because the novelty of the 3D gimmick wore off so let's hope for a better script with A2.
You're making the mistake of letting your own personal feeling about a movie bring you to stupid conclusions. You dont talk about Avatar now, its script is garbage so it's forgotten. You're 1 out of 7 billion people
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16 hours ago, HeadShot said:
What a load of bollocks. The main selling point was the 3D. It was a movie you had to see in the cinemas.
Also if we are gonna go with your claim that it would have been as successful in 2D then the gross would still be much lower due to the ticket price decline. Unless you’re implying that it would have gotten millions of more admissions.
If 3d was the main selling point then why did it smash the blue ray record? I dont know anyone who would sit through an almost 3 hour movie just for 3d visuals alone, the format was implemented to films prior to its release with no obvious boost in box office so clearly the story had a hook with the general audience.
And yes I'd argue it would have sold more tickets today considering the lack of 3d screens at the time of Avatars release, especially in expanding markets, China alone is the equivalent of 2b today
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1 hour ago, Permanent Magnet said:
You can't just apply inflation on the movie and ignore other variables, you are now assuming that Avatar in 2019 (with increased competition and , streaming services and most importantly the less popularity of 3D) will sell same amount of admission and not only that but the 3D ticket price of Avatar will have the same price as it was in 2009 (and if you don't know Avatar ticket was more expensive than the average ticket, specially in EU)
Sherlock and Alvin offered far stiffer competition for Avatar than Endgame had in its first few weekends
In the UK the 3d ticket price for avatar was cheaper than a 2d ticket price today. My Endgame ticket was around £9.90 for standard 2d. I just checked and to watch Lion King in 3d its £12.10. That's much higher than the 3d surcharge of 2009. I agree the average ticket price was higher compared to other movies in its year but that's due to it being ideal for that format, it was still alot cheaper than today so ignoring inflation makes no sense. 3d was also declining before Gravity enjoyed a healthy 3d share proving people will still pay the premium if its worthwhile.
Its hard to argue that streaming devices and illegal downloads effect big CGI driven blockbusters, especially when we see just how big movies can become. you can bring up those variables and I can bring up how social media has become a marketing beast since 2009 boosting WOM and awareness for movies today. Theres always variables to consider. It just makes sense not to ignore obvious disadvantages Avatar has against movies today.
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1 hour ago, Claudio said:
Don’t be too harsh on @Chucky. He’s just doing his part for our new missions ‘Endgame OS thread page numbers over Endgame Weekend thread page numbers’.
I’m glad we have someone like chucky who sacrificed his time to make some posts about one if not the most debatable topics in this thread in order to accomplish the mission. I hope you could join him too , doing your part just and creating a new interesting topic just like what Chucky did. Together we can.
Thank you , Chucky.
You're welcome
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5 minutes ago, GOATPeterJackson said:
99+ percent of the population doesn't care about inflation/ER and simply knows that Endgame is #1. The semantics matter to almost no one.
Most of the population couldnt care less let's face it and those that do read things already think Endgame topped Avatar 2 months ago (according to my new feed atleast) the semantics matter to no-one except maybe people that write religiously on a box office site? If you don't discuss these things then why have a site in the first place? Just view box office mojo once a week
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20 minutes ago, terrestrial said:
I can assure you, here write also people who, like me, didn't like AEG and love Avatar... and still do not share your POV about BO. And have literally decades of BO following experience (me as an example started to follow BO in the '70)
= maybe its your POV that is a bit cut to match? I do not mean the whole post, but some little parts of the conclusions / details seem a bit not based on a complex POV
Hmmm joined yesterday... an alt again? $2b the new $1b and such, who was it that wrote like that again?
Then explain to me which parts of my post you disagree with? 2b being the new 1b stems from the fact only 4 movies had managed to top 1b when Avatar was released, much like today where only 4 movies have managed to make 2b when Endgame was released (and 39 movies have now topped 1b). I cant see how anyone who tracks box office as much as you guys fail to see how much more welcoming the market is today for massive grosses
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20 hours ago, Permanent Magnet said:
Avatar UK gross- £94m ($147m) 1.601 exchange rage
UK box office inflation has increased 32% since 2009, heres a link..
So Avatars UK adjusted gross is £125m and with today exchange rate of 1.24 that gives it a gross of $155m
That's an increase pal
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8 hours ago, nguyenkhoi282 said:
I agree about the part that ER can not be viewed seperately from inflation. However, ER has a more direct effect on movie box office, while inflation takes time since ER will only drive up CPI inflation at first, then ticket price much later on yet at very different rates.
It's fair to say avatar would be at around 2.35-2.4b with current exchange rates. It's also fair to say inflation would bring it back up to around 2.85 and it's definitely fair to say Avatar would have smashed the 200m it made in China today.
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9 hours ago, nguyenkhoi282 said:
Less competition allowed theaters to let Avatar stay longer, while preparing the equipments. Instead of 1 million people seeing the movie right away, 100K over the span of 10 days would do the job.
Plenty of films have less competition but still drop like a rock despite keeping screens, clearly it was more to do with WOM. Also most of the equipment wasn't ready until after Avatar left theatres. Theatre chains would have had no reason to introduce 3d to all their screens as the only movies at the time using the format were the odd animation and a few horrors here and there for cheap jumps but they didn't help their box office all that much.
People where I'm from had to commute 30miles via car if they wanted to catch Avatar in 3d, it was a huge disadvantage and it's not like I live in a small town
I'm surprised at all the comments here, it seems people let their fandom get in the way of the actual box office performance which is strange for a box office site. It's ok to enjoy a box office run more than the actual movie. I Find Endgame to be a better movie than Avatar but I still see Avatars performance as more impressive. For me 2b is the new 1b, but I guess I'm just getting old
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On 7/24/2019 at 3:10 AM, The Dark Samurai said:
1. Titanic
2. Endgame
3. Everything else
I dont get how anyone who studies box office as much as you lot could fail to realise how wrong this is.
People seem to completely ignore how Avatar tripled the previous record holder in China, had the government change the name of their mountain peak, their yearly box office increased 64% that year alone (because of avatar) or how the Chinese movie goers were famously boycotting China's own made movie after removing Avatar from cinemas. It was people like James Cameron travelling there to convince the goverment to be less strict on its restrictions that made all these high grosses today possible. Its 200m gross there is the equivalent of 2b today.
People also forget how only 4 movies had made 1B globally when avatar was released compared to today where at least 5 movies are passing that mark this year alone. What Endgame has done is extremely impressive, performance wise its acted just like any other high opening movie just on a huge larger scale. To say Endgames run is more impressive despite box office being noticeably bigger today just shows a complete lack of understanding. Maybe most of you weren't tracking box office 10 years ago so dont quite appreciate just how hard it was for avatar to make the money it did. I personally remember having to travel to another town to catch a 3d viewing as neither cinema in my area was 3d capable, fast forward 10 years and we have 3 cinemas filled with 3d screens.
As for the exchange rate talk I did some calculating on the UK alone, if you take Avatars UK gross and adjusted for today's exchange rate obviously its gross is lower, but after adding inflation it increases, now I dont have the patience to do this with all countries but you get the point I'm making.
So no I'm sorry, endgames performance has been incredible, but it's not really comparable to Avatar which would be closer to 4b today than the 2.78 it currently stand at had it been released in this market
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Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it
in Box Office Discussion
Posted · Edited by Chucky
1.3b? That made me laugh. I'd love to see your breakdown of this. It has a higher chance of making that in China than missing it altogether.
You do realise only 4 movies had grossed 1b when Avatar was released right? This year alone 4 movies have already hit that mark with more to come in the next few days so spare me with the 'cinema is a bigger challenge today' bullshit. Since avatar 36 movies have done what only 4 managed to do prior to it, fact. Marketing films is easier than ever before since people are walking around with handsets capable of advertising anything to them.
And if I remember correctly Alice in Wonderland was just one of the luckiest movies we've seen being released right after avatar it was only naturally audiences wanted to replicate that feeling but unfortunately it didnt have the legs because it wasn't as well recieved. If anything its performance just showed the impact Avatar had on general audiences. You want to argue 3d was the main pull for its success, I'd argue Pandora itself was the bigger reason. The imagination in that world is really what sold it to audiences, 3d just gave them a great platform to experience it in
I also dont hear anyone say Titanic is their favourite film so what's your point? To become a massive film you dont have to be everyones favourite film, you just need enough people to like it enough to keep recommending it, something Avatar accomplished whether you want to agree or not.