Napoleon
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Posts posted by Napoleon
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1 hour ago, baumer said:
Flash cost about $300 million to make. It's going to gross maybe $300 million dollars worldwide probably less. Remember when Batman v Superman made 830 million dollars and people call that a failure LOL
At the time people were too anxious about what the reception to BVS would mean for the future of the franchise, so I understand why they weren't able to look at the numbers objectively, specially when Marvel movies were crossing the billion-dollar mark left and right. But on the other hand, right after BVS, Suicide Squad had the one-two punch of BVS reception and its own catastrophic reviews, and it still broke the August opening record and made $750 million worldwide. A few months later, Wonder Woman also opened huge with over $100 million and crossed $800 million worldwide. People should have been able to see a few months later that the DCEU was not in a disastrous shape as everyone imagined right after the BVS second weekend drop, but discussions got so heated, and people got so passionate about the subject, that no one wanted to let that go and admit things were nowhere near as bad as they predicted.
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31 minutes ago, DAJK said:
You know, I will say sometimes it sucks being in the minority on a movie. Either everyone loves it and you don’t, and it feels like a constant party that you’re not invited to
Or you really enjoyed the Flash and it makes it harder to laugh at the misery WB is facing as a result of their terrible decisions. Even though you really liked the movie itself.
Me with Dark Phoenix
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3 hours ago, TomThomas said:
I seriously question those scores now, maybe it never tested that well to begin with and it was all marketing lies. It's one thing you got a single misleading test-screening filled with crazy people in it, but when it was tested many times with the same incredible scores? Something doesn't add up.
I saw a discussion on Youtube with a person who attended CinemaCon and I think his explanation for the difference between the reception to The Flash in early screenings and general audiences' makes sense to me. During the early screenings, WB emphasized that the movie wasn't finished, so people ignored how bad the movie looked because they thought it would look great when officially released. They didn't judge how off-putting certain CGI-created characters were, because they thought it would be polished in the finished film, so they didn't think audiences would reject that, instead thinking it would be something everyone would love. Turns out, CGI was finished, and what WB was referring to was a final cameo they cut from early screenings that they were trying to keep a surprise until the week of release. If people attending early screenings knew they were watching the finished film, the visuals would probably have been weighted into their reactions, which would be more in line with the mediocre reviews The Flash eventually received.
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I won't argue if BVS should be blamed for the later collapse of the DCEU because that doesn't make any sense to me, but I just feel like some people not letting go of the insanely high standards for success they demand from DC is only going to put an unfair amount of pressure on James Gunn and his future DCU. The franchise should just make big, profitable movies, which is what the Snyder run at DC did, but instead people online demand billion-dollar grosses, certified fresh ratings, and above A cinemascores, just because the MCU for so long had a perfect run like that.
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So what do you guys think of the original plan to have Keaton's Batman and Supergirl appearing at the end, and continue on the DCEU replacing Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill? Being a Batfleck fan, I initially hated this idea when it was leaked, but I actually really liked Keaton's story arc in this film, and wouldn't mind that. It would actually be awesome for Keaton's to be back, and Affleck's being suddenly gone leaving things unresolved would be sad in kind of a poetic way. It would also leave the door open for a surprise appearance in the future to give it a closure. As for Supergirl replacing Superman, though, it just wouldn't feel right, because it's not the same character. We would always miss Superman/Clark in the DC universe.
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I thought it was a good trailer. Am I going crazy? Maybe it's because I never heard of this character before, so comic accuracy wasn't a factor while watching it.
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1 hour ago, upriser7 said:
I think the issue with low to mid budget movies is maybe the post-theatrical market? Like, if you make a movie that costs $20m (Movie A), and it earns $100m at the worldwide box office, it then turned around a $30m profit theatrically. But let's say this movie will perform on the post-theatrical market at the same proportion, it means it will have 5 times less viewers on TV and streaming than a blockbuster that earned $500m at the global box office (Movie B). In case Movie B cost $225m to make, it then earned just $25m in profit theatrically, which is less than Movie A. But if both movies perform proportionally on the home video market, Movie B will be having 5 times as many viewers than Movie A on all forms of home video. And studios will forever be licensing their catalogue to TV and streaming services, and will also be selling discs and digital rentals, so it's decades of Movie B earning 5 times more than Movie A. I think that explains why Hollywood studios have been so focused on big budget franchises. Not to mention movie theaters will also prefer studios make an expensive movie that flops with $500m at the box office than a profitable small movie that earns $100m, because they also have more people in their theaters not only buying tickets but also foods and beverages.
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1 hour ago, FunkMiller said:
It didn't help that Wonder Woman & Aquaman did so well. It made them think the DCEU was worth saving. It wasn't. Those movies weren't successful because they were DCEU. They were successful despite of it.
I think the situation is much more complicated. WB did try to make more movies like Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Shazam, Birds of Prey and The Suicide Squad were well received by critics, but failed to bring in large audiences like WW and Aquaman. Other sequels also made by the same people, with the same intentions, not only failed with audiences but also with critics (Wonder Woman 1984, Shazam 2).
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27 minutes ago, dudalb said:
Gunn and Safran are happy they can play their "His movie was greenlit and made under the previous management' Get Out Of Jail Free card for the WB Stockholders.
James Gunn was publicly promoting The Flash in a way that he didn't do for Shazam 2 (which was pretty much ignored by him), and now every article that's been written today about how bad the movie bombed at the opening weekend mentions him claiming it was "one of the best superhero movies ever made". Some people can start questioning his ability as president of DC Studios if what he considers to be one of the greatest of all time turned out to be DC's biggest box office bomb with a B cinemascore.
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1 hour ago, dudalb said:
It depends on how good a movie Aqua 2 is. If it's s dissapontement like WW84 it will fail.
Maybe Aquaman 2 is the next Wonder Woman (the original 2017 movie) where it was rumored to be a mess, but turned out to be a beloved hit.
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I think the situation is much more complex than just brand damage. The Flash is being completely rejected by those who didn’t have a problem with the DC brand and went to see it. It got a B cinemascore. And, from what I’m seeing on social media, the main criticism is the awful visuals and CGI, which is the same problem that plagued Green Lantern in 2011, and that was present in all the trailers. We chose to ignore what our eyes were seeing because several credible people were calling this a remarkable film that would be one of the year’s best, but all this time the thing that made audiences reject The Flash was probably already turning people away in the trailers.
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What’s the prediction for the global total based on this debut?
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2 hours ago, John Marston said:
George Clooney would be a great choice for the DCU Batman
Clooney is probably retraumatized by yet another epic bomb with him as Batman ☠️
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44 minutes ago, excel1 said:
Now that I have come to my senses.
What WB should have done:
-2013: MOS but better
-2014: Wonder Woman
-2014: Aquabro
-2015: MOS 2
-2016: Flash
-2016: Batman
-2017: Suicide Squad
-2018: Justice League
What WB should do now: RIP Snyderverse everyone through 2027, MAYBE reintroduce Gadot and Momoa. And F'ING NAIL Superman and whatever other characters they opt to do.
They just shouldn't have panicked after BVS. Zack Snyder's cut of Justice League was well reviewed and loved by audiences. If they only have had more faith in the original plan, they would've had a great 2017 with Justice League also being a hit. If WB wasn't happy with the numbers the DCEU was getting back then, and thinking they should be making billion dollar movies, they should have made a more reasonable, long-term course correction, gradually making them more MCU-like, instead of the U-turn they took that made them release bomb after bomb after bomb.
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14 minutes ago, excel1 said:
- Wonder Woman 9/10
- The Suicide Squad 8/10
- Shazam 7/10
- Flash 7/10
- Aquabro 7/10
- Man of Steel 6.5/10
- Birds of Prey 6/10
- Justice League 5/10
- Black Adam 5/10
- Wonder Woman 1984 3/10
- Suicide Squad 2/10
- Batman v Superman 2/10 (Batman warehouse scene worth 1/10th itself)
1. Batman v Superman 10
2. Wonder Woman 10
3. Man Of Steel 10
4. Zack Snyder’s Justice League 8
5. The Suicide Squad 8
6. Wonder Woman 1984 6
7. Aquaman 4
8. The Flash 4
9. Black Adam 4
10. Shazam 4
11. Birds of Prey 3
12. Suicide Squad 3
Have not seen Shazam 2
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1 hour ago, John Marston said:
Seriously Deadline?
”To some degree these figures are not surprising as this is where the box office openings of deep universe superhero movies live when they’re starting off a franchise.”
Wonder Woman opened over $100 million coming right after BVS and SS (and being first introduced in BVS), what an incredible win that movie was. Patty Jenkins remains undefeated, as that was the only DCEU movie that was truly successful in all fronts (huge at the box office, acclaimed by critics and loved by fans and audiences).
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While you are worried about Muschietti being fired from the Batman film, I'm actually concerned about the new DCU as a whole. James Gunn seemed way too invested in this movie (after ignoring Shazam 2, so it seems genuine). He heavily promoted it and called it one of the greatest comic book movies of all time, has hired Muschietti to direct the new Batman film, and who knows how much involvement he had on the post-production (he already said he gave "notes"). Considering how awful the CGI looks in the finished product after so much time of post-production, I wouldn't rule out a similar Justice League situation going on (minus the toxic set, of course, and a much colaborative work with the director). Not to mention Gunn could probably be involved in how the movie was released and marketed, and in increasing WB's confidence in the film and convincing them to give the promotion a more robust investment. This is only speculative, and I don't even know how likely it is for this to be case, but considering WB's history of panicking and course correcting their plans for DC, the mere possibility of them reconsidering Gunn's DCU makes me nervous. His first DC movie (The Suicide Squad) was already a box office bomb, despite being pretty good. Gunn choosing to associate himself with The Flash seems like a mistep if the current numbers and indicatives of word of mouth continue to be disappointing.
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Verified audience score on Rotten Tomatoes dropped from 94% to 88%
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14 minutes ago, JWR said:
Because a lot of the woes plaguing WB, and the DC brand specifically, can be traced back to WB making him the architect of the DCEU.
Yeah, they should have made Green Lantern the launchpad for the DCEU instead of Man Of Steel.
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Take the pessimistic predictions with a grain of salt. I remember when the tracking thread was pointing out less than $20m for Shazam 2's opening weekend, and under $100m for Guardians 3. At the end of the day, The Flash is a comic book movie with many recognizeable characters in it, from movies that did very well at the box office. It will have better walk-ups and better legs than it's required for it to be at the low-end of projections. I understand why people will entertain the possibility of this doing the worst case scenario but I don't think that's a very likely scenario, simply because to me this doesn't seem like a movie everyone will ignore, it has some appeal.
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No wonder Disney and WB started doing the same thing
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8 hours ago, Dominic Draper said:
Can you name any comic book films that are widely considered among the greatest of all time that are scored in the low 70s?
Joker is even below that. (But I'm not saying I expect The Flash to perform the same way)
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Michael Shannon talks about The Flash on minute 15:33 (and also praises Man Of Steel, starting at 10:39):
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On 6/1/2023 at 12:52 AM, filmlover said:
I admit I know very little about Lindelof as a person despite having seen many of his projects (a commentary on how little the average person knows - or even cares - about the folks behind the cameras? Maybe, perhaps) but admit it's unfortunate that those were allegedly the attitudes of the Lost staff back in the day. At least it sounds like he regrets not doing more since it's probably not a secret that those sort of attitudes were (likely) still prevalent in Hollywood even in the 2000s (which weren't that long ago).
Speaking of on-set hostility, they just announced Kim Cattrall will be making a single cameo appearance in the Sex and the City reboot/revival series (which I don't watch, that's one show that really should be left in its original era) in which she won't be sharing the screen with SJP or the others since it's a phone call scene. I hope she got 7 figures for this lol.
Kim Cattrall Will Play Samantha Jones on 'And Just Like That' Season 2 - Variety
Disappointed this wasn't kept a secret for us to find out while watching the show. WBD is all in on spoiling cameos to promote their content these days.
Weekend Actuals (Jun 23 - 25) | 19.00M ATSV | 18.44M ELEMENTAL | 15.14M THE FLASH | 15.00M NO HARD FEELINGS
in Numbers and Data
Posted
The Flash's drop is kinda shocking when you look at its online audience scores, which are actually decent (80% all audience on RT, 7.3 on IMDb). Cinemascore was the only bad one, I guess they are really the most reliable metric to predict legs.