Phil in the Blank
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Posts posted by Phil in the Blank
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BvS got moved. Why the fuck am I reading through this thread?
I don't know DeeCee, we love watching train wrecks
Or creating them
Actually the world is getting less racist, less sexist, less homophobic, less violent.
Ssssshhhh, that's our little secret.
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I'm gonna be the odd one out here. I'm going to chose The Undiscovered Country
*Voted as I listen to Wrath of Kahn on Spotify*
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Sorry, couldnt resist, because you twist my words. My quote from my post -
"Diversity is a good thing. I love Avengers, but the cast is pretty much all white, even with the 4-5 new additions. Do I want Falcon or War Machine or BP thrown in just to put some color in? Or Ms Marvel put in just to add another female? No. But you have to admit, they could get a little more creative. BVS will have a white, black, samoan, and middle easterner in the main cast. And why is that okay? Because theyre all bringing something to the table, rather than being thrown in to satisfy color quotas. Thats how all movies need to be. Dont give me all white rangers in the PR reboot, and then make Zordan black so no one will complain. Give a wide range of actors a chance. Bing Bing was only in TF4 just to please China and "the liberals", because other than that the cast wouldve been all white. Dont put people in just for the sake of it. "
Yeah...I dont see where I said the bolded. What I did say tho was that its good that DC is showing a more diversified approach. I'd still take Downey Jr, Ruffalo, Renner, and Johansson together over Affleck, Gadot, Mamoa, and Caville together any day. So again, you mistake my words.
And what did I say? "Thats a good thing because theyre all bringing something to the table." I did not say "thats good because DC cares and isnt only casting white people."
And the second half of that, again, is exactly what you said. I didnt say "dont make all white Power Rangers because thats racist." I said "dont make all white Power Rangers because a Power Ranger can be any color, so therefore the casting directors should really look around and find the best actors for it."
And then I said "thats how all movies need to be." Which translates to "dont make people something for the hell of it. Dont make a black James Bond just for the shock value or dont put a Mexican person in LOTR just so theres a Mexican character. Only have these things if theyre cherry to the story." Which looks like what you said. Therefore we arent that far apart.
Ps, I never cared if you replied or not. What I said was, "if you wanted to debate, you shouldve replied." I did not say "Spottswoodle, are you ever going to reply to my post or what?" I gave you a link and told you to read my post. I never said "go reread my post and then reply." So, yeah.
So if I misinterpreted your post and you agree with my position that race shouldn't matter then I congratulate you for being on the right side of an argument for a change!
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1. I made the same exact point as your Bond quote. You know it.2. Everyone I replied to had something ignorant to say or wanted to make an unfunny sarcastic joke. And surprisingly you all were white males. Thats not my fault.But whatever, we both basically had the same view, but I knew you werent gonna see it and say "yeah, then why are we arguing?", but instead say "but look, you bashed us white guys!"Im done. Back to the BvS thread.
Since you desperately seem to want me to reply to your initial posting. In my eyes we have completely different reasonings even if our conclusions can sometimes align.
My point in my post was that race does not matter. There is nothing inherently white about the character Bond and therefore he should be played by the best actor available regardless of his skin color. Very consistent with my views that I have posted in this thread that I do not think skin color should matter.
You seem to be of the opinion that race very much matters. You argue for example that, BVS has great casting because it has a white, black, salmon and middle easterner in the same cast. I would argue that its casting is great if, and only if the actors fit the roles in question. I personally don't care if its an all white, or all black, or all asian cast as long as the best people for the roles are selected. That is where I feel we differ and why I don't consider our points to be the same.
Enjoy the BvS thread.
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Anndddd you twist my words again. I dont care who you are, but its mainly only whites in here who have the problem. If Dash was disagreeing, I'd have to debate him. Hes black. Or if Cochofles said what youre saying, I'd still call her out. Shes a girl. Stop acting like im using your race as a whip to your back. No im using your views as one.And if you actually read my posts, you wouldve seen I said the same thing...How about you click this link and reread my post.http://forums.boxoffice.com/index.php?/topic/15845-diversity-in-top-films-misrepresents-us-population/?p=1619870If you dont understand what im saying then whatever. BvS just got moved and thats a lot more fun then us going back and forth, back and forth.
These were your own words.
Oh look another white male.Oh look another white make. Not surprised to see you though after your blackface comments.Oh look another white male. Hey werent you in the blackface thread as well? Sup bud! I "have no life" so yeah, but how are you?White male perhaps?Whats up my duud! How the white life?
You replied to 5 different people in one post. Myself, Jessie, Harpospoke, mattmav45 and Ozymandis, responding to each one of us in turn not debating the quality of our argument, but on the content of our skin. Those are your words, and I post them again so people can decide on their own if I am twisting them or not.
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It's you that started with "MINORITIES" lumped all together as one group so don't start twisting. You 're communicating your own values, yes, that's what you did but forced upon minorities as a whole group saying "Minorities having a teary over something unimportant". Something that YOU don't find important therefore they shouldn't have a teary over something YOU don't find important.
Yes I was being sensationalist. And yes I was wrong to be so flippant in grouping them together. So I apologize to any minority who does not have a teary over every tiny little thing. It was wrong of me to group you together with those who do and it is equally possible that someone in the majority could be having a teary over every little tiny thing as well. It was just a quick throw away line before I headed out of the house and thus did not have the appropriate level of thought placed into it. I am truly sorry for that.
So with that I would like to officially change my original statement to.
There are three things that are certainties in this world, Death, Taxes, and Social Justice Warriors having a teary over something unimportant.
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Ohh nowwww you wanna respond after I post my MLK comment. I never once in this thread or the blackface thread called you a racist. But theres no denying youre blind to the issue. Like Water Bottle said, you always say "I don't see race, everyone is grey". You're just saying that you don't have to admit that all races arent equal. I don't care how knowledgeable you are in MLK history, you still don't know the deal.
And no it's not because youre white. Rich is white. If he was hear, he'd be agreeing with me. Noctis is a white male. So what if he's gay? He's still a white male. Cmasterclay is a white male and he understands. So obviously I'm not calling out all white males, I'm calling out you. I'm NOT shutting down debate. All you had to do was respond to my post like I said. Instead you made an IGNORANT COMMENT. So stop trying to say that I'm shutting down debate! Jessie made an ignorant comment to so, but at least he replied. I was able to tell me my side, and he understood. That was this morning. But now you want to come in and say that I'm not wanting to hear what you have to say? Dude, please. I glad you don't care what I think of you. I don't know you or what you look like, so I don't hate your anything. What I do hate is how when these race topics come up, you want to act like youre a saint because "you see no colors" and know some history.
Your comment does nothing for me. You're not right and haven't changed my mind on anything. I'd be different if I was the only one calling you out on it, but I'm not, so obviously youre the one with some kind of issue, not me. You wan't to act like I'm harping on you because youre white. Am I harping on Noctis or Cmasterclay or Water Bottle? Am I harping on Jessie? I'm harping on your because you're doing what you always do, and you for some reason, a little color in film is unwarranted.
So you don't vilify white people with similar views to your own but you do call people out for being white who don't agree with your views. Sounds rather Uncle Tom like there.
As for not wanting color in films....Here is a quote from me from about 2 years ago in the Bond thread on if he should change ethnicity.
"My personal feelings are that there is nothing about Bond that makes him inherently white. He was white when he was created because black people simply wouldn't had been likely to succeed within an organisation like MI6. Of course this is 2012 and colour has no barrier for entry these days and hence Bond could be any colour you could think of as long as he acted British.
Doesn't mean the next Bond should be Black, it just depends on who is the best man for the job. "
I have no problem with their being more diversity in the cinema. That is not my beef here.
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But why do you feel the need to dismiss the topic altogether by initially saying "Minorities having a teary over thing that is not important", you're not even saying "I don't think that's an issue, imo" and leave at it, you basically say "Minorities crying over something that I find unsignificant and that should be unsignificant for them as well because I think so", that's a little bit condescending like diversity is not worthy as an issue or a struggle for them to care about. You force your POV onto minorities and pass judgement as a whole, that's borderline paternalist. "Stop bitching you dimwits about this, you should bitch about that instead!"
Minorities don't need to be told what struggles they should carry out.
I don't force my view onto anyone. I'm not holding a gun to anyones head.
The problem with screaming about the lack of, i dunno, Hispanic lead actors is that you are bitching about the symptom while not looking at the cause. It's like getting told your blood pressure is high, so you get angry at your blood as you chow down on another Big Mac.
And while we group people together for convenience don't make the mistake that minorities are just one big group think. There will be people from minority groups who agree with you, there will be people from minority groups who agree with me, and there will be people from minority groups who think we are both full of shit. People are individuals with their own thoughts and beliefs and values. I'm not telling minorities anything, I am communicating my own beliefs and values.
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I would like to know exactly what is meant by that. "Culture" is a tricky word. All people of any given race do not share the same "culture". A black person in Britain does not have the same cultural background as a black person in Tennessee. A Latin person from Cuba does not share the same culture as a Latin person from Mexico or Brazil. And obviously if you travel Europe you'll find out that being white can mean your culture is dramatically different from another white person. A white person from Germany does not remotely share the same culture as a white person from Spain, France, or Italy.
Then I wonder what is meant be "celebrate". I've seen a lot of movies set in various cultures and there usually very little attempt to "celebrate" it. ...It's just a part of the story. Forcing a "celebration" into a movie is probably going to have a negative effect on the narrative and possibly make it have less mass appeal.
Culture is a tricky word. You could write an essay on what it means but i'm just going to stick with the dictionary defintion because I'm tired.
"the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society."
There is a distinct lack of race in that definition and I completely agree with you that just because you share the same skin colour does not mean that you share the same culture.
As for using the word celebrate. To be honest I rewrote that particular sentence a few times before going 'fuck it' I'll just save arguments and use WB's words. Some films should be a celebration of a particular culture, some films should be a criticism of a particular culture, and most films should have culture as a backdrop or 'part of the story' as you will. I wouldn't mind that cultural backdrop being more diverse myself, but ultimately movies are going to try to appeal to the biggest audience.
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Now you're just paraphrasing me so the last sentence doesn't make any sense because I already exposed my similar views.
So we agree.
Excellent.
Skin Color should not play any role in how we judge each other Dash.
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Pointing out a person's race is not racist because unlike Spottswoode, I'm very aware of a person's color and how that influences not only that person's identity but how the world reacts to that person.
I'm not saying that skin colour, does not influence how the world reacts to that person now. I am saying we need to move towards a future where skin colour does not influence how the world reacts to them at all.
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Maybe because you dont get the point? You didnt respond to my paragraph, but instead made an ignorant statement. So since you made an ignorant statement and clearly is not seeing where we're coming from, what else should I say? Like I said, you did the same thing in the blackface thread, and that went on for days, and you still couldnt see why it was problem. Even Rich, a white male, tried to lay it out for you and you still didnt get it. So i dont expect you to get this.Maybe if you replied to me with your thoughts, instead of making an ignorant statement, then yeah we couldve debated, but youre acting like how most white males act in these situations. Dont ry to play some victim, you know it.
I wasn't responding to you as I had no real desire to get into yet another argument where you try to insinuate I am racist.
And you know what, pointing our your behavior, where you are purposely trying to shut down debate by pointing out we are white is not playing victim. It's stating the truth as I see it. I personally do not feel victimized at all by you, and in fact could not care less what you thought about me. But ultimately you are trying to use my own race against me and I call it as I see it.
I just hope that my comments inspire you think along the lines that, 'you know what, spottswoode is correct, i shouldn't call him out on being white, i should call him out on being an asshole.'
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You don't quite get it. I respect anybody whether it be white, black, yellow, whatever color as I don't pass judgements on a person based on his skin color. That doesn't mean that skin color doesn't exist. That means I don't stop at a skin color to judge that individual/character because that's short sighted.
If you're blonde, I won't stop saying you're blonde because we should be "color-blind" like you said. It's just a matter of fact like my eyes are black or someone is tanned. We should go beyond but "going beyond skin color" doesn't mean "that doesn't exist anymore".
I view skin colour in the exact same way that I view hair colour. I notice it obviously, but there is no need to judge someone because their hair is brown or red or blond. Sure it exists, but its completely irrelevant to how I view them as a person. So yes, I look at you and it registers in my mind that you are black, but its your posts that I judge you as a person on and not your skin colour. Believe me, I would view you exactly the same even if you were white.
I hope you would do the same if I was black.
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Do you guys even know what racism/prejudice is?
It is treating someone differently in an arbitrary manner based on some inherent disposition.
All you morons spouting off about the "straight white males" in this thread are in fact being racist in a thread supposedly about stopping racism and promoting diversity. So our opinion isn't relevant because of our race and sexual orientation? The absence of racism prejudice is equality.
Dear god, are you really all this dense?
Yes, yes they are.
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IDK how good independent films are at celebrating diverse cultures, but I do agree with you that independent films are much better than big budget studio films are at celebrating other cultures. I also agree with you that big budget films probably lag behind independent pictures in this category because they are worried about money. So, I guess that brings up the next question: What is the solution to that problem? Should big studios get over their fears, should consumers demand films that celebrate diverse cultures more, or should we consumers spend our money on smaller, independent films about other cultures, therefore proving that there is a market for that stuff?
I think its a consumer led thing to be honest. People love to whine about big business, but what big business really reflects are our own desires. We are the ones who want cheaper prices at the cost of outsourcing jobs or more lax environmental controls. And we are the ones who go make <insert Block Buster title here> a big hit while ignoring <insert Indie Title here> a commercial failure.
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Go tell that to your white buddies that still perpetuate that "artificial construct" today. What else those minorities can do? Brainwash those that rule the system with that "artificial construct" to erase it? Or try to make way for a wider acceptation and opening the chances to succeed through diversity within the system to make it evolve and reflect today's society? What is the most sound and rational solution?
And that twisted way to think you're embodying MLK's philosophy more than minorities themselves to tell them what they should do or not do to advance their cause because you twist his words to suit your way (which begins like "Minorities are cry-babies whining about anything", what a courtesy invitation to open a gentle discussion about that topic), that's fallacious. MLK didn't say "there aren't black, there aren't white", he said we should respect each other and see beyond that skin color that should not divide ourselves but enrich ourselves.
I didn't say cry-babies whined about anything Dash.
Also Dash, It's okay to me that you are black, and I respect your skin pigment.
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The biggest irony here is you're using Morgan Freeman to a Hispanic to comment on race issues.
Yet you refuse to tackle his argument?
Okay.
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How exactly are you respecting someone who is a decent human being if you refuse to respect part of how they identify themselves?
Not that you get it. You just want us to shut up about race because otherwise you'd have to deal with the vast inequalities minorities still face. But it's okay you don't see color, so how can you possibly see those inequalities?
We are simply never going to see eye-to-eye won this matter. For the record though, I really don't want you to shut up. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing and I wouldn't trade it for anything. However I am going to finish with a quote from Morgan Freeman, who being black, obviously has more weight on the issue than me because me being white and all. So you know, respect his opinion because he is black.
"Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man. And I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You're not going to say, "I know this white guy named Mike Wallace." Hear what I'm saying?"
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And on MLK, as I see it.
Both Harspoke and myself seem to be idealists at heart and we identify with MLK's idealism. A day when the content of your character is what counts, not what the color of your skin is. What a fantastic vision. How much pain and suffering would end if we lived in that future.
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Stating it doesn't matter if you're black or white is in fact stating to a black person that a huge component of who they are doesn't matter. Like it or not, minority groups do use things like skin tone, ethnicity, sexual orientation to define part of who they are. Denying them this ability by being color blind is not only being insensitive to who they are but it also suggests a lack of awareness of the challenges that group faces as a consequence of being a part of that minority.Respecting someone for being black is a lot better than pretending someone isn't black. It's just avoiding the issue,
Do you know what I find super ironic. You see in science there has been nothing found to justify the concept of race. Nothing. It is an artificial social construct designed, it seems from my white male eyes as I cast over history with my white male brain, to justify being assholes to one another. And ironically, the very people who were victimized by this artificial construct are the ones who are so desperate to cling to this construct. I'm sorry, I just find that incredibly ironic.I will not respect someone for being black, white, red or yellow. I will respect someone who is a decent human being. If you want to celebrate your skin color go right ahead, but I refuse to hop aboard that train.
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Says the white guy whose already represented in films.
Says the white male.
Interesting that the ones who oppose the diversity in this thread are all white straight males. Cute.
Oh look another white male.Oh look another white make. Not surprised to see you though after your blackface comments.Oh look another white male. Hey werent you in the blackface thread as well? Sup bud! I "have no life" so yeah, but how are you?White male perhaps?Whats up my duud! How the white life?
Well done guys! Why respond to the issues raised when you can just attempt to marginalize other people's views through the colour of their skin. How very...umm....ah....errrm......can't quite think what that word is right now. You know...its where you like, judge people based on the colour of the skin??? Arrrgh. It will come to me soon I promise!But in the meantime maybe you should try debating rather than just pointing out skin color. That would be fantastic
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Since they are not important TO YOU, then they must not be important, right?
Of course! I am the arbitrator of all things. Didn't you know that? Now kneel before me peasant!
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Good points. I particularly liked the idea about the importance of culture, as opposed to skin color. So let's continue down that train of thought for a second. Don't you feel like we should have more movies that celebrate the cultures of minorities? Movies that help us understand "their ideas, their language, their music," and their perspective on the world?
I feel that there are plenty of films out there that do celebrate and/or the cultures of minorities. But they just tend to be this smaller, independent fare that we rarely see because they don't come to the big cinema chains. For example, only last week I watched this movie called Brick Lane which is about this 17 year old Bangladesh girl who has an arranged marriage with a guy twice her age and then moves to Britain. It's a great film that explores a totally different culture to one that I am use to. I really enjoyed it. Shame it probably would had been seen by about 23 Americans.
Because in my eyes the real question is 'why don't we have more movies that celebrate the cultures of minorities' but 'why don't we have more big budget movies that celebrate the cultures of minorities'. And the answer to that question, simply is Money. It's the safe option setting your characters in a white world and the safe option is what matters to these people when there is hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. Now why is it the safe option? That is the question that actually matters, not the 'oh no, Roby Downy Jr won the Iron Man role over a random Hispanic actor! Why are there so many white people up on screen?', question.
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You can be on both trains. I agree with MLK that someone's character is more important than a person's skin color, and that we should judge based on that. But I agree (at least partially) with WB that a color blind society is not the way to go. Looking at someone's character as opposed to skin color does not mean that we don't see someone's race, it's just that we don't make a judgment about it.
I really don't see why race (or gender or sexuality for that matter) would have any impact on how I personally treat someone. Indeed I am fundamentally against celebrating 'color'. Why does it matter if Morgan Freeman is black or Johnny Depp is white? What does their skin-tone have anything to do with anything?
With that said, I do get the impression that what WB was saying was that when white people say 'color blind' it's code for 'whitewashing' (pun intended) someones cultural heritage. Your culture does not matter, you are all white in our eyes. But that I feel is missing the point. Being blind to color is not synonymous with being blind to culture. Race is absolutely irrelevant to someone's character, but their ideas, their language, their music, how they think about the world,.....their culture. That is what is important in my eyes. Not someones skin pigmentation.
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Diversity in top films misrepresents U.S. population
in The Speakeasy
Posted
Casting Directors - Biggest Racists of All Time, Confirmed.