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Daxtreme

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    Film Piracy (opinions and box office effect)

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    Great post Tele, as usual your knowledge of the insides of the system is very insightful

     

    6 minutes ago, Grand Moff Tele said:

    incidentally, for those who care, renting or buying a streaming or digital movie actually returns the most to the content creators -- given the current contracts.

     

    Wow, didn't know that.

     

    I imagine that doesn't include Netflix? I mean, I pay $9 a month for Netflix, but they don't care if I'm watching Star Wars or Narcos or whatever, I imagine they give a fixed amount as rental for the streaming rights?

     

    Film Piracy (opinions and box office effect)

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    I think if you want to give the most money possible to the content creators, theater is the way to go.

     

    Since studios keep a significant cut of the ticket sold, that's money going directly to them, and indirectly, to all the employees working in the industry under that studio since they will be able to maintain their contracts / hire new workers.

     

    That's also why I go to the theater whenever I can :) 

    • Like 2

    Film Piracy (opinions and box office effect)

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, That One Guy said:

    So, I did some research, and the most pirated film released in 2015 was Furious 7 (not counting Interstellar as #1 since that was a 2014 release) at 44,700,000 downloads.  The average ticket price in 2015 was $8.43.  So Furious 7 lost roughly $376,821,000 due to piracy (my math might be off but idk).  Please tell me more about how piracy isn't a problem?  Granted, Furious 7 did make a lot of money, but let that sink in for a second...376M lost due to piracy.

     

    Mad Max: Fury Road was downloaded 36.4M times.  That's 306M lost due to piracy.  I don't have exact numbers yet, but Deadpool is apparently the most pirated movie of 2016. 

     

    That's assuming lots of things though.

     

    First, many of those who downloaded the movie would never have paid for it in the first place. That's the whole point of piracy. Not that it's right, just saying -- You can't lose money that you would never get.

     

    Second, many of those who downloaded the movie might have watched the movie in a dollar theater instead, or went to a friend's house to watch it, or have it lent to them by a friend. So the studio would receive between $1 and $0 from those people. Again, that's the kind of thing someone who pirates movies will do, since they're not inclined to pay for movies to begin with.

     

    Third, many of those who downloaded the movie might not watch it in a theater to begin with, so this $8.43 ticket price average really doesn't mean anything. Like I said above, they would rent it, buy it used/off-hand, etc., which means the studio definitely doesn't pocket $8.74 per person.

     

    Now, consider this:

     

    What if many of those who downloaded the movie thought it was awesome, and recommended it to someone who had no interest in the movie whatsoever, but suddenly does? And that person has no idea how piracy works? Then that person buys the movie, or rents it, or goes to the theater to watch it. That's a sale you wouldn't have gotten without piracy.

     

    I won't pull out random numbers because that's not the point of this post, but the fact is that the above scenario can and will happen. I know because I've seen it happen, I know it's anecdotal but I've seen it happen a lot, in fact. The person who pirates doesn't suddenly think "I have to make sure this studio makes no money", what they think instead is "oh, that movie sucked" or "oh yeah, that movie was great". Like you. It's just that they didn't pay for it. But obviously they don't care about that, and doesn't mean they suddenly won't tell anyone about it!

     

    I feel like I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, and I mean I shouldn't, because piracy is wrong, but it's just that when I see hyperbolic posts like these I am kinda forced to rectify the situation. Your numbers are wrong, basically, and extrapolated from data that simply doesn't work because of what defines piracy. 1 pirated movie doesn't equal 1 lost sale because movie pirates usually don't pay for them anyway. Hell, it can balance itself with more sales, like with my Game of Thrones example in my previous post.

     

    Can you, without the shadow of a doubt, say, with 100% certainty, that if piracy didn't exist, Game of Thrones would be as popular as it is right now? ;)

     

    If I had to put money on it... I would say that if piracy didn't exist, at all, Game of Thrones wouldn't be as popular as it is right now, and thus, wouldn't be making that much money. I'd go with 2 to 1 odds any day of the year on this.

     

    Sadly, it can't ever be proven. :ph34r:

     

    All I'm saying is, it's more of a grey area than you think. Doesn't make it right, but it's not clear-cut either.

    • Like 7

    Thursday #s - (Asgard2) R1 16.8m, Sing 15.3m

    in Numbers and Data

    Posted

    1 minute ago, PPZVGOS said:

    If the presence of Donnie Yen & the other Chinese actor cannot lift Rogue One in China, then Disney should reconsider its casting choices going forward. Star Wars makes money in North America and Europe, act accordingly. 

     

    No... :( 

     

    Chinese/asian actors are nice! Please don't, Hollywood :P

     

     

    • Like 4

    Film Piracy (opinions and box office effect)

    in Box Office Discussion

    Posted

    This discussion can also be applied to Video Games, and the answer was that there is demand for no-bullshit DRM policies, and if you aren't cutting options for people, they will pay.

     

    gog.com is impressively popular nowadays, and how it works is, you pay for a game, and then you download it. End of story.

     

    What you do with this game is up to you. You can give it to lots of people, there is no DRM at all on it. So why is gog popular, and working, if only 1 person could download the game and then instantly share it with EVERYONE?

     

    It's because customers like being taken seriously. No matter how you see it, this DRM paranoia crap introduced by companies like Ubisoft is hurting the trust between customers and clients. You launch Assassin's Creed on Steam and it goes through 3 different launchers (Steam --> Uplay --> Assassin's Creed) just to make sure you are running a legitimate copy of the game. How does that make me feel as a customer? 

     

    Like shit. If the company doesn't trust me, neither should I trust them.

     

    When I buy a game off gog.com, I download and install it. I can give it to anyone, but the reason why it's so popular with gamers is that no-bullshit, no-paranoia mentality. And is also the reason why their games are selling well on this platform. Yes I gave a copy or 2 of games I purchased on gog.com, but my friends wouldn't have purchased them anyway so it doesn't hurt the publishers, and that isn't at all different from when I was lending video game cartridges to my friends when I was younger (and never got them back :sadno:). Hell, I was given a copy of Witcher 3, which I had no interest into and no intention of ever paying for, and now I am eagerly waiting for the next game from that company (CD Projekt), and will buy it when it comes out.

     

    Their mentality and business model is based on what made video games so popular in the early 90's -- lending them to a friend, who would try it, then he would lend it to a friend, etc etc That's how Blizzard Entertainment became so popular, people tried their games and loved them so more people bought them in the end, and it became a juggernaut.

     

    Game of Thrones is so popular today because of piracy, even the producers and higher-ups at HBO said it publicly.

     

    HBO programming president Michael Lombardo told Entertainment Weekly piracy wasn't hurting revenue. “I probably shouldn’t be saying this, but it is a compliment of sorts,” he said. “The demand is there. And it certainly didn’t negatively impact the DVD sales. [Piracy is] something that comes along with having a wildly successful show on a subscription network.”

     

    The lesson to learn from this is that you can either raise your fists in the air, yell at everyone, complain that you lost millions, or accept that it's easy and free marketing and that it will happen anyway because...

     

    Word of mouth & ease of access > Paranoia on getting paid by every single person who tries your product.

     

    ----

     

    The same applies to movies. Give customers a no-bullshit option and they will purchase it. However, right now blu-ray prices are off the fucking charts, movies are split online between 5 different streaming services, we're getting ripped off with the 3D boost-in price at the theater we never asked for... why do you think so many people pay for Netflix? 

     

    And it's infinitely more convenient to watch a pirated movie than a legit one, which is another HUGE problem.

     

    I buy a movie, then I put it in the damn player, next thing you know there are legal warnings, more legal warnings, previews I can't skip, a menu, then the movie starts. This whole process can take a few minutes in the worst of cases. A pirated movie, (or a movie on Netflix/any streaming service) you press "Enter" and it starts. That's convenience, and that's what the movie industry should strive for.

     

    That's what customers want. 

    • Like 3

    Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)

    in Review That Movie! (Spoilers Allowed)

    Posted

    43 minutes ago, K1stpierre said:

    But first, I just need to shout this out loud and get an anwser asap as my mind still can't comprehend this: HOW THE HELL IS LEIA IN THIS (CARRIE FISHER HERSELF)??? I mean was it CGI??? Was it actually not her and a really spectacular fake person looking like her???? (Also how the hell does Tarkin look like the same age when ANH came out like 40 years ago??? Do the SW's producers have the fountain of youth available?)

     

    It was another actress, named Ingvild Deila, who played Leia.

     

    Then they CGI'd Carrie Fisher's young face over it.

     

    Same for Tarkin, another actor played him and they CGI'd the late Peter Cushing's face over him.

     

    I thought they did a pretty good job, all things considered. Really enjoyed Tarkin's arc on my 2nd viewing.

    • Like 3

    Wednesday Box Office - (Asgard2) R1 18.5, Sing 16

    in Numbers and Data

    Posted

    Just came back from viewing #2, Rogue One

     

    The beginning does stall somewhat, I don't like the flow of it, but I really feel like they developed the characters very well during the movie, so it balances out. I had no problems understanding their motivations.

     

    But what this movie does best is build stakes, and tension. It just builds up, and builds up, and builds up, and by the end you're just jizzing everywhere from the overflow of awesomeness.

     

     :qotd:

     

    Thanks for reading.

     

     

    Also, music really worked for me on 2nd viewing :ph34r:

     

    • Like 3

    Wednesday Box Office - (Asgard2) R1 18.5, Sing 16

    in Numbers and Data

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

    Who was arguing the holds this week would be poor though? I definitely wasn't. I just thought the numbers would be lower going into this past weekend. Hence why after the first Monday # I said sub 450 was pretty much dead. It's last week it did much better than I expected in terms of holds, not this week. 

     

    I don't know, some other folks. Forgot their names.

     

    No one outright said the holds would be poor, but I remember people saying the holiday legs were overrated or something, and that they wouldn't apply to a big opener that wasn't TFA, when clearly it's not the case.

    • Like 4

    Wednesday Box Office - (Asgard2) R1 18.5, Sing 16

    in Numbers and Data

    Posted

    I seem to recall some people before Rogue One opened saying that TFA was an outlier, that big openers will drop almost normally during the holidays because that's how big movies function...

     

    Well, here's how Rogue One compares to similar openers during its 2nd week

     

    DAY  MV5BMjEwMzMxODIzOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNzg3
    Rogue One         		 MV5BMTMxNTMwODM0NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODAy
    The Dark Knight         		MV5BMTAyMjQ3OTAxMzNeQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU4MDU0
    Catching Fire         		MV5BMjA4NDg3NzYxMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTgy
    The Hunger Games
    Mon $32,085,637
    +24.1% / +82.3%
    $318,119,079 / 11         		$10,518,116
    -55.5% / -57.1%
    $324,299,793 / 11         		$3,402,550
    -76.1% / -72.4%
    $299,698,207 / 11         		$4,522,495
    -70.2% / -58.2%
    $253,006,396 / 11
    Tue $22,515,612
    -29.8% / +28.1%
    $340,634,691 / 12         		$9,629,366
    -8.4% / -53.9%
    $333,929,159 / 12         		$4,009,955
    +17.9% / -74.9%
    $303,708,162 / 12         		$5,324,246
    +17.7% / -48.5%
    $258,330,642 / 12
    Wed $18,021,482
    -20% / +20.4%
    $358,656,173 / 13         		$8,755,141
    -9.1% / -52.4%
    $342,684,300 / 13         		$3,017,817
    -24.7% / -85.5%
    $306,725,979 / 13         		$4,608,765
    -13.4% / -42.8%
    $262,939,407 / 13
    Thu - $8,402,546
    -4% / -49%
    $351,086,846 / 14         		$2,938,977
    -2.6% / -80.3%
    $309,664,956 / 14         		$6,399,758
    +38.9% / -21.7%
    $269,339,165 / 14


    (Thu will be close to $18M as well)

     

    I mean...

     

    ...

     

    Jesus, the numbers aren't even close. :rofl:

     

    So, can we please finally assess, for real and for good, that no matter the size of a movie's opening, holiday legs WILL kick in, pretty please? 

     

    I've had this argument with I don't know how many users before Rogue One opened (who mysteriously disappeared since then), and I would like it if that would become common knowledge from now on. 

     

    :redcapes: 

     

    • Like 11

    Wednesday Box Office - (Asgard2) R1 18.5, Sing 16

    in Numbers and Data

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, JB33 said:

    That Rogue One number is just about $345K behind Avatar for the 2nd best second Wednesday of all time. It'll have to settle for a VERY close 3rd. There is a considerable gap until the next best in this regard, which belongs to The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (11.89M).

     

    It's also higher than all 1st wednesdays except a select few movies.

    • Like 1

    Wednesday Box Office - (Asgard2) R1 18.5, Sing 16

    in Numbers and Data

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, redfirebird2008 said:

     

    Something north of 575 would be great. Saw it for my second time last night and it holds up well in repeat viewing. As far as blockbusters go, this one deserves every penny it makes. Can't say that very often given the rubbish Hollywood pumps out a lot of the time.

     

    It has a lot of spirit, that's what I like, especially for a movie sandwiched between 2 trilogies which had to service both

    • Like 3
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