AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) The main reason JC had a lousy opening was because of bad marketing which apparently Stanton had a big hand in. I just can't blame Cars 2 for failure of JC. Only way I buy that Pixar's name is sullied is if Brave opens below Ratatouille. Ugh, now two people have misunderstood me. I'm not talking about box office or final quality, what I'm saying is if Cars 2 had not come out before John Carter, more film fans would have given JC the benefit of the doubt before its release, because up to that point anything Pixar's guys were involved in was golden. We'll never know how the public in general might've responded because they never advertised that connection. Edited March 15, 2012 by tribefan695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letsuseournoggin Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Somehow, I've still yet to see Dragon but I've always heard nothing but great things. It scored a 98% on RT and had terrific legs to reach $220M. If it was released in the summer, it probably would have made more. I don't think that would be a bad fate for Brave. You are correct. Great movie. But there was a lot to that movie that I felt was overlooked. I think a lot of people praise it because it really was a solid film, but people also put it on a pedestal because it came from Dreamworks and no one expected that. But when I put that movie next to The Incredibles or WALL E or Nemo, it's clearly not in the same class, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Ugh, now two people have misunderstood me. I'm not talking about box office, what I'm saying is if Cars 2 had not come out before John Carter, more film fans would have given JC the benefit of the doubt before its release, because up to that point anything Pixar's guys were involved in was golden. We'll never know how the public in general might've responded because they never advertised that connection. There is no way to quantify it but If Brave has soft opening than you have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I still don't think connecting Pixar to Carter would have helped much regardless if it was released pre or post Cars 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letsuseournoggin Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I still don't think connecting Pixar to Carter would have helped much regardless if it was released pre or post Cars 2. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem2x3 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 What about it looks terrible? What about it looks lackluster? The same thing was said about Ratatouille months before its release. I still remember the horrified reaction to its disappointing opening weekend. It went on to have great legs, win the Oscar, and be regarded as one of Pixar's best. I'm not saying Brave will follow that same route, but you guys are showing no faith for no reason. You didn't like Cars 2? Guess what? Just like the first one, it was aimed at little kids. The only remotely funny joke in the second trailer was the one dad mooning the other dads, which was not remotely clever enough to be the high-point of the trailer. Brave's climax is a scene that's been used in virtually every movie involving archery ever made (splitting the bullseye). Maybe I've watched too much movies to expect something more new than "Princess who doesn't want to be a princess" ? I can't think of any other Pixar movie that was based on so over-used a premise? Toys were alive? Monsters were scared of children? The world of bugs? A fish who's scared of the ocean? Super-heroes living normal lives? A rat who wants to cook? Cars as people/characters? A robot as the last living thing on earth? An old man flying his house on a million balloons? Forget all that if you want to, but my biggest problem with that I've seen so far is that it looks like it completely lacks the fantastic humor that marks virtually all pixar films previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I still don't think connecting Pixar to Carter would have helped much regardless if it was released pre or post Cars 2. Yes it would. No Pixar film has opened to less than $40 million. Do you really think a movie about a mute robot or a cooking rat would've opened to as much as they did if they didn't have the Pixar logo in front of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem2x3 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Ugh, now two people have misunderstood me. I'm not talking about box office or final quality, what I'm saying is if Cars 2 had not come out before John Carter, more film fans would have given JC the benefit of the doubt before its release, because up to that point anything Pixar's guys were involved in was golden. We'll never know how the public in general might've responded because they never advertised that connection. Do you think Pixar/TI had anything to do with Mission Impossible 4? I extremely doubt it. MI was about Tom Cruise, the franchise and Abrams. Your JC points are nonsense, and it shows nothing more than just how much you hate Cars 2. You're blaming mediocre live-action movies from a different studio's performance on Cars 2 (which will make more than 2x what JC will probably)? JC didn't look great, and WORST of all--it wasn't a very good movie. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't good either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem2x3 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Yes it would. No Pixar film has opened to less than $40 million. Do you really think a movie about a mute robot or a cooking rat would've opened to as much as they did if they didn't have the Pixar logo in front of them? John Carter didn't have the Pixar logo in front of it. What are you talking about? Wall-E's marketing was fantastic. If its pacing had been better, it would have soared way higher. I think Rat would have pulled a Rango--Rio type run from a different studio, which isn't terribly off from what it did pull in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The only remotely funny joke in the second trailer was the one dad mooning the other dads, which was not remotely clever enough to be the high-point of the trailer. Brave's climax is a scene that's been used in virtually every movie involving archery ever made (splitting the bullseye). Maybe I've watched too much movies to expect something more new than "Princess who doesn't want to be a princess" ? I can't think of any other Pixar movie that was based on so over-used a premise? Toys were alive? Monsters were scared of children? The world of bugs? A fish who's scared of the ocean? Super-heroes living normal lives? A rat who wants to cook? Cars as people/characters? A robot as the last living thing on earth? An old man flying his house on a million balloons? Forget all that if you want to, but my biggest problem with that I've seen so far is that it looks like it completely lacks the fantastic humor that marks virtually all pixar films previously. This all ties into what I mentioned earlier about resistance to a female lead. Ultimately, you don't wanna see a movie about a princess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Yes it would. No Pixar film has opened to less than $40 million. Do you really think a movie about a mute robot or a cooking rat would've opened to as much as they did if they didn't have the Pixar logo in front of them? You would have valid point if Brave opens around Ratatouille. If it opens over 50M than your point is moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Do you think Pixar/TI had anything to do with Mission Impossible 4? I extremely doubt it. MI was about Tom Cruise, the franchise and Abrams. John Carter is way different from MI4. Stanton wasn't just a for-hire director looking for something to do; he wrote, directed, and shepherded the movie. It was about as close to a Pixar-produced film as a non-Pixar produced film could be and John Carter does not get made if not for his involvement. Your JC points are nonsense, and it shows nothing more than just how much you hate Cars 2. You're blaming mediocre live-action movies from a different studio's performance on Cars 2 (which will make more than 2x what JC will probably)? JC didn't look great, and WORST of all--it wasn't a very good movie. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't good either. I'm not blaming the film itself on Cars 2, I'm blaming the long, drawn-out negativity towards the film pre-release on it. I think there would've been more optimism had that movie come first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem2x3 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 There is no way to quantify it but If Brave has soft opening than you have a point. Only way he would have a point on that issue, would be if Brave looked fantastic and had a soft opening. Brave doesn't look fantastic. if it has a soft opening, it's its own fault. I hope the Lorax is an eye-opener for the major animation studios. Everyone's been pushing these more "serious/drama" oriented style and tone in their films since about Rat or so. Meledandri is showing how the more old-school, physical humor and good fun movies can still pull in the really big bucks (Despicable Me and The Lorax). The DM2 announcement trailer was more epic than anything Brave's shown so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Yes it would. No Pixar film has opened to less than $40 million. Do you really think a movie about a mute robot or a cooking rat would've opened to as much as they did if they didn't have the Pixar logo in front of them? The public knows Pixar as strictly animation. They were never going to develop much of an interest in Carter, no matter what studio it came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think Rat would have pulled a Rango--Rio type run from a different studio, which isn't terribly off from what it did pull in. That's pretty far off, actually. They didn't come within $50 million of Ratatouille unadjusted. The Pixar connection matters. They couldn't put the logo in front of JC, but if they had advertised it from the director of Nemo/Wall-E, it could've made a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) You would have valid point if Brave opens around Ratatouille. If it opens over 50M than your point is moot. Not really. With inflation and 3D $50 million is about equal or maybe even less in ticket sales. It's also still less than any Pixar film's opening since Wall-E. Edited March 15, 2012 by tribefan695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 They couldn't put the logo in front of JC, but if they had advertised it from the director of Nemo/Wall-E, it could've made a difference. I still don't believe that. Nemo/Wall-E are as far away from Carter as you can get. You can't play up animation credits with a live-action film that's vastly different in every way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 JC flopped all on its accord. Marketing didn't help one bit. Had this come out last year before Cars 2 it still would have flopped because the movie is mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Not really. With inflation and 3D $50 million is about equal or maybe even less in ticket sales. It's also still less than any Pixar film's opening since Wall-E. What would be a satisfactory OW and total for Brave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) I still don't believe that. Nemo/Wall-E are as far away from Carter as you can get. You can't play up animation credits with a live-action film that's vastly different in every way. No, The Human Centipede is as far away from Nemo/Wall-E as you can get. It may be more violent, but John Carter does share thematic similarities with those movies in being a fish-out-of-water story with a personal relationship at the center. On paper it's really not all that out there as a film that Stanton would do. Edited March 15, 2012 by tribefan695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
