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Joker: Folie a Deux | October 4, 2024 | Lady Gaga is Harley Quinn in this 200M+ musical sequel

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HummingLemon496 Box Office Gold

HummingLemon496

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5 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I think you are underestimating the power of nostalgia bait. All it needed was a big opening and nostalgia bait gave it that. The rest came from good WoM. Across the Spider-verse is a family film so I’m guessing it got more kids than your average superhero film. I still think the average superhero watcher (the person who would be showing up to most of these from 2008-2019) doesn’t care about them anymore. Don’t think there’s gonna be a single superhero success next year. The only one that I could see getting through is Fantastic 4 but that’s because I see some novelty there (+ RDJ Doom)

Yeah the two biggest MCU movies post-Endgame are cameo/nostalgia bait movies with the main hook being non-MCU characters

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21C Sleeper Hit

21C

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A Joker sequel as a musical starring Lady Gaga is the sort of big bet that was entirely dependant on unanimously great reviews to drive its box office. Since that wasn't the case,  it's flopping. In an alternate universe where none of their movies contradicted each other and this had been a Joker sequel with Pattinson's Batman it'd have been a mega hit.  

 

I still think that it's impossible to see at that 2017 period where Todd was developing Joker and Matt was developing The Batman as anything other than a gigantic missed opportunity in hindsight. If DC had been more organized back then, they'd have a sure 1+ billion hit on their hands.This all continues to be a consequence of the incompetence and poor administration of the previous DC regime. Poor planning causes even hits to be unstable for the long term.

Edited by 21C
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YM! Global Phenomenon

YM!

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19 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I think you are underestimating the power of nostalgia bait. All it needed was a big opening and nostalgia bait gave it that. The rest came from good WoM. Across the Spider-verse is a family film so I’m guessing it got more kids than your average superhero film. I still think the average superhero watcher (the person who would be showing up to most of these from 2008-2019) doesn’t care about them anymore. Don’t think there’s gonna be a single superhero success next year. The only one that I could see getting through is Fantastic 4 but that’s because I see some novelty there (+ RDJ Doom)

I'm not pretending that nostalgia isn't the ultimate drug for box office. I'm not going to pretend that it'll always be the hayday were everything does $1B but like I can still see Superman and TF4 doing well (like idk 650m+ WW) with a handful of them doing 400m+ - which again was kinda like the pre-Avengers CBM landscape or at best the period between 2013-16 in which there were clear hits but not everything shaped up and were quite a bit of udnerperformers. Its clear there's shrinkage that probably can't be fixed but also don't think the genre is a kneecap or there's no room for success. I think Venom should do relatively well due to the lack of PG-13 blockbusters this holiday season and perhaps filling some of the niche Joker couldn't deliver. 

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HummingLemon496 Box Office Gold

HummingLemon496

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9 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

If a sequel to Joker, possibly the most liked CBM of the last 5 years is struggling to open to $50M, then I don't see how Superman and FF are supposed to break even. 

One of the most liked, sure, but not THE most liked. ATSV is higher on IMDB and Letterboxd

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Eric the Marxist Global Phenomenon

Eric the Marxist

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31 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I think you are underestimating the power of nostalgia bait. All it needed was a big opening and nostalgia bait gave it that. The rest came from good WoM. Across the Spider-verse is a family film so I’m guessing it got more kids than your average superhero film. I still think the average superhero watcher (the person who would be showing up to most of these from 2008-2019) doesn’t care about them anymore. Don’t think there’s gonna be a single superhero success next year. The only one that I could see getting through is Fantastic 4 but that’s because I see some novelty there (+ RDJ Doom)

 

29 minutes ago, Mulder said:

It's not just Joker 2, it's general trends starting from like 2022 onwards. DC has only had one box office success in the past three years, Marvel has had multiple failures pre-Deadpool & Wolverine. It's not that everything's guaranteed to die, it's just clear that the market is rapidly shrinking and it's not what it was in the 2010s.

Will continue to argue until I'm blue in the face that the big push for big-budget superhero shows did a ton of damage for the movies and their appeal with both fans and the casuals. Both in the quality and just oversaturation in general. It's harder to make these movies good when executives and producers have to look over a bunch of streaming shows that serve as 6-hour movies, and it's harder to get all excited and interested in the next epic movie event when you have superhero content shoved in your face 24/7. And most of that content isn't even that good!

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thajdikt Box Office Gold

thajdikt

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5 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

II a sequel to Joker, possibly the most liked CBM of the last 5 years is struggling to open to $50M, then I don't see how Superman and FF are supposed to break even. 

Across The Spider-Verse was also a sequel to one of the most liked CMB of the last 5 years and did great. Superman and FF are its own cases, just like Deadpool and Wolverine was. And some have already pointed out some potential reasons for why Joker is struggling so much which won’t apply to those movies.

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TheFlatLannister Box Office Gold

TheFlatLannister

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1 hour ago, YM! said:

Sigh. No Joker 2 bombing doesn't mean the CBM genre is dying. Its back to its 2008-16 phase in which the pitch and if its looks and is appealing are key to it doing well. Joker 2 seems to be alienating both target demographics with reviews being the lynchpin to the collapse. Batman 2 and Superman should probably be fine, did The Marvels collapsing doom Deadpool? If the genre was totally dead, Deadpool couldn't make those numbers even with nostalgia bait. Across would be unable to match, let alone double its predecessor. 

Batman 2, yes. Superman, I'm a bit skeptical about. We shall see

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thajdikt Box Office Gold

thajdikt

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4 minutes ago, Speedorito said:

There is no world in which Joker was the most liked CBM of the last five years.

I mean it´s hard to define that, but looking at metrics, it has the same rating on IMDb and Letterboxd as Endgame. Same IMDb score as Into-The Spider-Verse and Infinity War. 2018 movies yes but some of the best liked movies in CBM genre. Also got several noms at the Academy and wins. I´m not saying it is but it deserves to be in the conversation. Only thing it really hasn´t against those other movies are very strong critical reception. Could put NWH in there also, and Joker has better score than aswell on IMDb and Letterboxd.

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Eric the Marxist Global Phenomenon

Eric the Marxist

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Will say that I do have faith in Superman and Fantastic Four being big hits however. I have faith in both films' creative team, and it seems there's a lot of fandom excitement for those two in particular. Way more than most of the other superhero stuff coming down the pipeline.

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Speedorito Sleeper Hit

Speedorito

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Superman will be lucky to make 500M at this point. Joker is one of the popular DC characters and the first film was unhindered by the baggage of the DCEU. When even the sequel is faltering there’s no hope. Only Batman is a draw.

 

Also don’t trust fandom excitement because…look at Joker 2. Or The Flash. There’s always fandom excitement.

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HummingLemon496 Box Office Gold

HummingLemon496

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Speedorito said:

Superman will be lucky to make 500M at this point. Joker is one of the popular DC characters and the first film was unhindered by the baggage of the DCEU. When even the sequel is faltering there’s no hope. Only Batman is a draw.

 

Also don’t trust fandom excitement because…look at Joker 2. Or The Flash. There’s always fandom excitement.

So basically, Batman (as in Batman himself, not just Bat-verse) is to DC franchises what Reddit is to social media websites - the best of all of them

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21C Sleeper Hit

21C

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Posted
1 hour ago, Speedorito said:

Superman will be lucky to make 500M at this point. Joker is one of the popular DC characters and the first film was unhindered by the baggage of the DCEU. When even the sequel is faltering there’s no hope.

Musical sequel with Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn. Insane you're ignoring that big elephant in the room. 

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