The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!

[Torontofan]

Female led movies do well if they are interesting and well made. Where the movie starts with a foundation of interesting characters, a cool story and setting. 

 

They usually flop and cause a backlash if the entire hook or draw of the film is "This is an all women movie and women need to watch this and support this' regardless if the film has any quality or draw to it.

 

its why Barbie became an all time blockbuster and other female led films bomb badly. 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Torontofan

[Willowra]

1 hour ago, Zak said:

As much as it annoys me to say, I do acknowledge that these all female team up films absolutely don't sale. Ghostbusters 2016, Charlie's Angels 2019, Terminator Dark Fate, Birds of Prey and The Marvels all either disappointed in Birds of Prey case or outright bombed, in all of the other films case. Female led action adventure movies do have more of an uphill climb but they can sale as evidenced by The Hunger Games franchise, Wonder Woman and yes Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel 2 with a mix gender team up like Thor Ragnarok had might not have saved the film because the bad MCU movies hurting the franchise would still exist but it might have helped matters more. 

 

The idea that Sue being the star of FF will harm the film is silly. Most of that team is made up of men and cool men at that. That's not even remotely similar to the films that I mentioned. Same with that Suicide Squad knock off and Captain America 4, which is starring a man. And indeed Eternals did not flop because it was starring a woman. It flopped because was boring and the film never convinced audiences that the Eternals not fighting Thanos made any sense. Marvel dropped the ball on Captain Marvel 2 with creative decisions that don't sale. They did everything wrong. 

Eternals flopped not because it was a female lead movie, I agree, but it wouldn't have done more than 500m even with good quality; there is less interest in female lead MCU projects compared to male projects, and we can't deny that, but for the Captain Marvel 2 movie, interest was even less because a section of MCU hardcore fans don't feel comfortable with the character as they don't want her to be the face of MCU or lead the Avengers. If she isn't going to lead the Avengers, then I think Marvel Studios made a big blunder by not telling them that she isn't going to lead. Hostility towards the character from a large section of the fanbase hurt its box office. The Marvels is an all-female team-up movie, but it is still a MCU movie, and it would have done at least 350m even with everything going against the movie, but it didn't because it didn't get support from the MCU-dedicated fanbase. Solo MCU movies box office are driven mostly by a hardcore fanbase, and if they don't want to support the character, then that movie flops at box office.

[SpiderByte]

My dude this thing of "Brie Larson is the leader of the Avengers in Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars" is literally just something that is complete speculation on your part. Will she probably be in at least one of them? Yes. But the thing your posting is something that is literally just guessing on your end. It's just as equally plausible that it's Deadpool or Doctor Strange or literally anyone else

Edited December 4, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Bob Train]

11 hours ago, Willowra said:

I can't unsee what I'm seeing. The MCU fandom is heavily divided, and large numbers of MCU fans can't stand Captain Marvel. I saw a Reddit post on Marvel Studios that asked a question: Will you watch The Marvels in theaters? 95% of replies were "no," and what was interesting was that there were tons of upvotes on replies like this—I might not even watch it for free on D+. So a large number of MCU fans can't stand Captain Marvel for whatever reason. So people need to check expectations for the next Avengers movies, as there is still no clarity about the lead in these movies.

it's because the movie looked bad. 

[Willowra]

10 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

it's because the movie looked bad. 

It would've still done atleast 350m at box office as it is a mcu movie.

[Kon]

46 minutes ago, Torontofan said:

Female led movies do well if they are interesting and well made. Where the movie starts with a foundation of interesting characters, a cool story and setting. 

 

They usually flop and cause a backlash if the entire hook or draw of the film is "This is an all women movie and women need to watch this and support this' regardless if the film has any quality or draw to it.

 

its why Barbie became an all time blockbuster and other female led films bomb badly. 

 

 

To be fair, Barbie movie was created to appeal women. Female leads in movies whose genres are primarily directed towards women aren't uncommon at all.

 

For example: Hunger Games could be considered an action movie, but it still belong to YA genre, which main audience tend to be women.

 

 

The issue with superhero genre and female audience is because this genre has never been especially popular between women.

 

So, a female lead movies in this genre could have a more complicated path.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Kon

[Willowra]

13 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

My dude this thing of "Brie Larson is the leader of the Avengers in Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars" is literally just something that is complete speculation on your part. Will she probably be in at least one of them? Yes. But the thing your posting is something that is literally just guessing on your end. It's just as equally plausible that it's Deadpool or Doctor Strange or literally anyone else

MCU Fans speculate this not just me & they hate her because of that. Go to marvel studios sub reddit and you'll know this. And youtube comments on brazil & mexico CBM videos were even worse than what I saw on Reddit & this the reason why it flopped badly in Mexico which is also known as Marvel nation. If hardcore fans aren't comfortable with the character you need to make them comfortable or tap GA base by projecting the character as big character & if you do nothing then we see result like The Marvels.

[SpiderByte]

7 minutes ago, Willowra said:

MCU Fans speculate this not just me & they hate her because of that. Go to marvel studios sub reddit and you'll know this. And youtube comments on brazil & mexico CBM videos were even worse than what I saw on Reddit & this the reason why it flopped badly in Mexico which is also known as Marvel nation. If hardcore fans aren't comfortable with the character you need to make them comfortable or tap GA base by projecting the character as big character & if you do nothing then we see result like The Marvels.

Man you are not breaking new ground with "Reddit is not a fan of female characters".

[Willowra]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

Man you are not breaking new ground with "Reddit is not a fan of female characters".

Nope Reddit is a fan of Wanda and even Black Widow.

[Kon]

25 minutes ago, Willowra said:

MCU Fans speculate this not just me & they hate her because of that. Go to marvel studios sub reddit and you'll know this. And youtube comments on brazil & mexico CBM videos were even worse than what I saw on Reddit & this the reason why it flopped badly in Mexico which is also known as Marvel nation. If hardcore fans aren't comfortable with the character you need to make them comfortable or tap GA base by projecting the character as big character & if you do nothing then we see result like The Marvels.

 

We couldn't really use online voices in reddit to prove a character is really disliked or not. They don't represent general audience.

 

Honestly, Captain Marvel isn't a really popular character. The poor box office of The Marvels seems to show that.

 

However, I don't think hate or discomforting towards the character are the main feelings between general audience. The issue is just a complete lack of interest.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Kon

[Bob Train]

15 minutes ago, Willowra said:

It would've still done atleast 350m at box office as it is a mcu movie.

Nah, people are taking a wait-and-see attitude to MCU now, in a post-Quantumania world. The built-in audience that would see it no matter what is not there anymore, and will only be a guaranteed show-up for the highest-tier characters (i.e. Spider-Man, Deadpool, etc.).

 

Unless they are of better quality/have better marketing, it is highly likely Cap 4, Thunderbolts, etc. will put up similar numbers to the Marvels.

[Willowra]

1 minute ago, Kon said:

 

We couldn't really use online voices to prove someone is really disliked or not. They don't represent general audience.

 

Honestly, Captain Marvel isn't a really popular character. The poor box office of The Marvels seems to show that.

 

However, I don't think hate towards the character are the main feelings between general audience. The issue is a complete lack of interest.

Online voices represent hardcore fans & they weren't interested in the movie. And she is obviously not popular among GA base as they didn't establish her as big character in previous movies, so double blow.

[SpiderByte]

4 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Nope Reddit is a fan of Wanda and even Black Widow.

Then what is the actual point youve been making since you keep insisting there's backlash against female leads?

[Willowra]

11 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Nah, people are taking a wait-and-see attitude to MCU now, in a post-Quantumania world. The built-in audience that would see it no matter what is not there anymore, and will only be a guaranteed show-up for the highest-tier characters (i.e. Spider-Man, Deadpool, etc.).

 

Unless they are of better quality/have better marketing, it is highly likely Cap 4, Thunderbolts, etc. will put up similar numbers to the Marvels.

I'm not saying it would have done 600m or 700m with better quality but with the support of dedicated MCU fanbase it would have done atleast 300-350m & with better quality 400-450m.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Willowra

[Willowra]

4 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Then what is the actual point youve been making since you keep insisting there's backlash against female leads?

There is blacklash against only CM & interest in other female lead project is also less compare to male lead projects thats what I'm saying.

[Kon]

17 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Online voices represent hardcore fans & they weren't interested in the movie. And she is obviously not popular among GA base as they didn't establish her as big character in previous movies, so double blow.

 

It was the general audience who make the previous MCU big successes, not harcore fans.

 

Hardcore fans are a small group. They hating a character wouldn't really have a big effect on the box office.

 

That said, it's true that general audience seems disinterested on Captain Marvel, which is a lot worse for the character than any discomforting or hate you could see online.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Kon

[Willowra]

3 minutes ago, Kon said:

 

It was the general audience who make the previous MCU big success, not harcore fans.

 

Hardcore fans are a small group. They hating a character wouldn't really have a big effect on the box office.

 

That said, it's true that general audience seems disinterested on Captain Marvel, which is a lot worse for the character than any hate or disconforting you could see online.

I disagree; unless the movie is an event movie like Avengers, the support of hardcore fans is must for a normal MCU movie to succeed at box office.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Willowra

[SpiderByte]

1 hour ago, Willowra said:

There is blacklash against only CM & interest in other female lead project is also less compare to male lead projects thats what I'm saying.

So your argument is, very specifically, that if Captain Marvel is the main lead of Secret Wars and Kang Dynasty, a thing that has not been reliably reported to be a thing and is literally just you speculating, the movie will do badly

[Willowra]

15 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

So your argument is, very specifically, that if Captain Marvel is the main lead of Secret Wars and Kang Dynasty, a thing that has not been reliably reported to be a thing and is literally just you speculating, the movie will do badly

badly? No. My expectations for a female-led Avengers movie are already low, and for a Captain Marvel-led Avengers movie (if she leads, which I doubt now), my expectations are 400–800m, which would depend on marketing and quality.

 

16 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

So your argument is, very specifically, that if Captain Marvel is the main lead of Secret Wars and Kang Dynasty, a thing that has not been reliably reported to be a thing and is literally just you speculating, the movie will do badly

And that's what my question is: why did Marvel Studios let fans speculate about this when they knew that they were not liking it? They setup the movie to fail at box office by making a section of the fanbase uncomfortable with the character.

[Kon]

35 minutes ago, Willowra said:

And that's what my question is: why did Marvel Studios let fans speculate about this when they knew that they were not liking it? They setup the movie to fail at box office by making a section of the fanbase uncomfortable with the character.

 

Right now, Marvel Studios has likely more relevant things to worry for the brand than fans speculating who will be the lead of an Avengers movie.

 

In fact, after The Marvels bomb so hard, most people don't really believe Captain Marvel will be the main lead of an Avengers movie. So, I don't think Marvel Studios need to worry about that.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Kon