The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!

[SpiderByte]

But WandaVision was never made for a season 2. Agatha is the follow up.

[DInky]

21 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

So? If the show is good "distance" doesn't matter. Especially when people were literally just complaining about the shows coming out too fast!

 

It clearly does (see The Marvels). A lot of people have accurately pinpointed one of the biggest problems that the post-Endgame MCU has - newly introduced characters don't appear again for several years and by the time they do people have lost interest. Compare that to phases 1-3.

 

Iron Man appeared in

2008

2010

2012

2013

2015

2016

2017

2018

2019

 

Captain America appeared in

2011

2012

2014

2015

2016

2018

2019

 

Thor appeared in

2011

2012

2013

2015

2017

2018

2019

 

Black Widow appeared in

2010

2012

2014

2015

2016

2018

2019

 

Doctor Strange appeared in

2016

2017

2018

2019

 

Ant-man appeared in

2015

2016

2018

2019

 

The Guardians appeared in

2014

2017

2018

2019

 

Would the MCU have been nearly as successful as it was if we only saw each of these characters every 3 years? I don't think so.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by DInky

[Kon]

32 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

So? If the show is good "distance" doesn't matter. Especially when people were literally just complaining about the shows coming out too fast!

People really complaint about "too many", not "too fast".

 

People complaint that Disney release too many shows, which overload the audience. I really doubt people have so much with shows coming out fast (while the quality is good).

[SpiderByte]

22 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

It clearly does (see The Marvels). A lot of people have accurately pinpointed one of the biggest problems that the post-Endgame MCU has - newly introduced characters don't appear again for several years and by the time they do people have lost interest. Compare that to phases 1-3.

 

Iron Man appeared in

2008

2010

2012

2013

2015

2016

2017

2018

2019

 

Captain America appeared in

2011

2012

2014

2015

2016

2018

2019

 

Thor appeared in

2011

2012

2013

2015

2017

2018

2019

 

Black Widow appeared in

2010

2012

2014

2015

2016

2018

2019

 

Doctor Strange appeared in

2016

2017

2018

2019

 

Ant-man appeared in

2015

2016

2018

2019

 

The Guardians appeared in

2014

2017

2018

2019

 

Would the MCU have been nearly as successful as it was if we only saw each of these characters every 3 years? I don't think so.

 

 

I'm sorry but people can't say Marvels too reliant on cameos and then complain that characters aren't constantly making cameos every year. That's not practical.

[TwoMisfits]

38 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

But WandaVision was never made for a season 2. Agatha is the follow up.

 

So, it should have been out Jan 2022 as Wandavision Season 2: Agatha as that would have been 12 months after season 1 (Jan 2021).

 

Again, it's way too late now...we're another 23 months after when it should have arrived for a tv schedule and it's not coming out for another 11, so it's almost 3 years too late...

Edited December 1, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[ChipDerby]

4 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I'm sorry but people can't say Marvels too reliant on cameos and then complain that characters aren't constantly making cameos every year. That's not practical.

 

They were reliant on cameos because they treated the first phases like a TV series. Which is what led to huge ratings for their finale. 

[PlatnumRoyce]

8 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I'm sorry but people can't say Marvels too reliant on cameos and then complain that characters aren't constantly making cameos

 

Wong is the big cameo guy these days and no one is complaining about Wong cameoing in both Spider-Man and She-Hulk.  

 

The problem is that the TV shows aren't presented as cameos, they're presented as "primary canon" that introduces viewers to new main characters and people find it exhausting to keep up with that concept (and no one cared about Ms. Marvel the tv show). 

 

I really do think Marvel would have been helped if they found a way to have some easter eggs towards eitehr Thunderbolts in Black Panther 2 & the Marvels (given that both take place on earth and involve Government Black Ops to some degree) or to the Young Avengers.  That sort of repeated cameo move historically made audiences "put the pieces together" and generate excitement for upcoming films. Instead they're throwing 40 things against the wall.

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[DInky]

5 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I'm sorry but people can't say Marvels too reliant on cameos and then complain that characters aren't constantly making cameos every year. That's not practical.

 

This is disingenuous and you know it. Phases 1-3 built up a core cast year after year (they weren't cameos).. Post-Endgame hasn't done that and the audience has lost interest. And the problem with The Marvels isn't the inclusion of Kamala and Monica. The problem is that those characters were introduced in a different medium. Monica is especially problematic because she was a side character in the first MCU TV series back in 2021 and Marvel expected the general audience to remember her 3 years and 19 MCU entries  later. Similarly, Carol hadn't appeared in any meaningful way since Endgame.

[Masketta Man]

General audience is foaming thru their mouths in anticipation for the next appearance of Star Fox 64

[SpiderByte]

24 minutes ago, DInky said:

Phases 1-3 built up a core cast year after year (they weren't cameos)

Almost all of the Cap examples cited are cameos outside of the Avengers and Cap films. and those are exceptions, not the norm. Most of the cast does not appear every single year, so expecting every character to is ridiculous 

Edited December 1, 2023 by SpiderByte

[DInky]

4 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Almost all of the Cap examples cited are cameos

 

How? Three Cap movies and four Avengers movies. Are Avengers characters appearing in an Avengers movie considered cameos now? Chris Evans appearing in one scene of Thor The Dark World is a cameo (and I didn't list it for that reason)..

Edited December 1, 2023 by DInky

[SpiderByte]

Having an actor appearing every year for a decade was an exception. Not a thing that is practical for every character. So yes, sometimes there may be some time between appearances for some characters. which was totally normal even before now.

[DInky]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

Having an actor appearing every year for a decade was an exception. Not a thing that is practical for every character. So yes, sometimes there may be some time between appearances for some characters. which was totally normal even before now.

 

Whether it's logistically possible is a different matter entirely. I'm just pointing out that this was a big part of MCU's success that is now missing. The lack of yearly (or even biyearly) character appearances is one of the reasons why The Marvels bombed as badly as it did and it will play a big part in future movies like Cap 4, Thunderbolts and Armor Wars bombing as well.

[SpiderByte]

5 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

Whether it's logistically possible is a different matter entirely. I'm just pointing out that this was a big part of MCU's success that is now missing. The lack of yearly (or even biyearly) character appearances is one of the reasons why The Marvels bombed as badly as it did and it will play a big part in future movies like Cap 4, Thunderbolts and Armor Wars bombing as well.

Bullshit, WandaVision and Ms Marvel came out two and one year out from The Marvels. None of those movies are doom are because the main cast didn't have annual cameos. That's never been an issue for literally any franchise ever!

 

I swear to God this board has the most ridiculous explanations for why things will and won't bomb. cap 4 would not magically be a guaranteed billion if Sam showed up in Eternals or whatever you want.

 

Everyone is insistent that there shouldn't be homework, but also everyone needs to constantly be making new appearances, but only make sequels to successful movies, unless those sequels introduce new characters, but they also can't involve returning characters making appearances after their previous appearances. People are simultaneously claiming the Marvels bombed because the characters hadn't appeared enough before and then turn around and say that the returning characters caused it to bomb!

Edited December 1, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Liiviig 1998]

15 hours ago, John Marston said:

Iger constantly talking about quantity, You cannot justify Agatha, Ironheart, Echo, Young Avengers, She Hulk Season 2, Ms Marvel Season 2, Eternals 2 etc then

She hulk was quite successful so S2 makes sense.

Agatha . Ok wandavision was a success so can see that but ehh on it.

 

Young avengers can only survive as a tv show atleast for the initial stage.

 

You have introduced Ms marvel in a movie ,so keep her there. Don't think we need another season.  Most of the feedback on her was positive even with how audience   panned  the marvels was. So just build  on that with some supporting roles. ( She would fit right in a spiderman film or shang chi 2.

 

Ironheart show doesn't make sense to me. She was a generic quip character that felt out of place in a rather dire wakanda forever film.  Just keep her in films and give her supporting roles.

 

Eternals 2 is not happening IMO. 

 

[DInky]

22 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Bullshit, WandaVision and Ms Marvel came out two and one year out from The Marvels. None of those movies are doom are because the main cast didn't have annual cameos. That's never been an issue for literally any franchise ever!

 

 

We've been over this.
Problem a: these are TV series not movies. A large part of the GA was clearly not dedicated enough to keep up with the TV side and considering the sheer amount of content that has been put out in such a short period of time, who can blame them?

Problem b: if this was phase 1-3 then we maybe would have had 7 MCU entries between WandaVision and The Marvels but we've had 19 entries (19!) since. You don't see how easy it is for casual audience to forget about a supporting character that appeared 19 projects ago?

 

22 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I swear to God this board has the most ridiculous explanations for why things will and won't bomb. cap 4 would not magically be a guaranteed billion if Sam showed up in Eternals or whatever you want.

 

Nobody is saying that characters should haphazardly appear in random projects to maintain audience interest. But how about having logically interrelated projects come out closer together? Black Widow and Falcon and the Winter Soldier both came out in 2021. Ideally, Cap 4 and Thunderbolts should have been out in 2022. 2023 at the latest. But now they're both coming out in 2025, 4 years later.

 

Ironheart should be out right now (one year after Wakanda Forever), not in another 2 years as is currently planned.

We had WandaVision in 2021 and Multiverse of Madness in 2022. Good. But why wasn't Agatha out in late 2022? Why do we still not have a date for a Scarlet Witch movie or Visionquest? I could go on and on.

 

22 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Everyone is insistent that there shouldn't be homework, but also everyone needs to constantly be making new appearances, but only make sequels to successful movies, unless those sequels introduce new characters, but they also can't involve returning characters making appearances after their precious appearances.

 

But it never used to feel like homework because one movie naturally flowed into the next and there were less of them in total.

Edited December 1, 2023 by DInky

[YM!]

25 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Bullshit, WandaVision and Ms Marvel came out two and one year out from The Marvels. None of those movies are doom are because the main cast didn't have annual cameos. That's never been an issue for literally any franchise ever!

 

I swear to God this board has the most ridiculous explanations for why things will and won't bomb. cap 4 would not magically be a guaranteed billion if Sam showed up in Eternals or whatever you want.

 

Everyone is insistent that there shouldn't be homework, but also everyone needs to constantly be making new appearances, but only make sequels to successful movies, unless those sequels introduce new characters, but they also can't involve returning characters making appearances after their previous appearances. People are simultaneously claiming the Marvels bombed because the characters hadn't appeared enough before and then turn around and say that the returning characters caused it to bomb!

Full stop. What are your expectations for the 2024-2025 slate? Yes I know it's early but throwing some shot in the dark numbers, what are your expectations if reception is good, mediocre or bad? For me: DOM/WW

 

Deadpool 3: 280-650/370-800/450-950

Cap 4: 115-250/175-380/250-550

F4: 150-350/200-450/280-650

Thunderbolts: 90-200/140-300/200-500

Blade: 90-250/140-300/200-450

 

No, Cap 4 wouldn't be guaranteed 1B if Sam had a cameo in Eternals, but I'd be way more confident in The Winter Soldier numbers if Sam had an Avengers movie to debut in. Again, it's moreso that the GA needs the main characters for the story. Cap 1 to Cap 2 and TFATWS and BNW has about the same wait time (3 years) but there was 3 projects in-between (one of which Steve had a main role), whereas Sam has currently 25 projects in-between his next debut.

Edited December 1, 2023 by YM!

[SpiderByte]

2 minutes ago, YM! said:

Full stop. What are your expectations for the 2024-2025 slate? Yes I know it's early but throwing some shot in the dark numbers, what are your expectations if reception is good, mediocre or bad?

It's kind of hard to tell because most of the slate is two full years away. How can I predict Blade or Thunderbolts? They haven't shot a single second of footage!

[YM!]

Just now, SpiderByte said:

It's kind of hard to tell because most of the slate is two full years away. How can I predict Blade or Thunderbolts? They haven't shot a single second of footage!

It's a box office forum. We got some idea on the top of the head. People didn't need to see footage for Avengers to predict, we do this for movies all the time not just for Marvel movies but movies in general. I'm just curious on predictions. You can predict Deadpool and Cap though.

[SpiderByte]

14 minutes ago, DInky said:

Nobody is saying that characters should haphazardly appear in random projects to maintain audience interest. But how about having logically interrelated projects come out closer together? Black Widow and Falcon and the Winter Soldier both came out in 2021. Ideally, Cap 4 and Thunderbolts should have been out in 2022. 2023 at the latest. But now they're both coming out in 2025, 4 years later.

Yeah damn it's almost like there were multiple industry-changing pauses during production that caused a bunch of delays. Cap 4 was announced immediately after Falcon ended!

 

You cannot have both characters constantly reappearing regularly and also demanding projects be delayed or scrapped. Pick one. Everything can't be both super interconnected and also standalone from everything else. This isn't a complaint any other continuing franchise has, nobody's like "oh man they need to make Pattinson appear in Penguin, what'll happen if he doesn't immediately return?"

 

You can't say "why aren't any characters returning" and then also complain whenever characters return.

Edited December 1, 2023 by SpiderByte