RaidensSword

I'd say they both made mistakes but WB definitely rushed their universe building to the detriment of the individual movies.

A bit too optimistic for my taste. I'd say closer to 225 and 100.

This was already announced along with the Chinese release date, but there was also talk that it could get picked up by more cinemas depending on it's performance in it's limited run. Such as here https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/bohemian-rhapsody-gets-surprise-permission-china-release-1191060 "If Bohemian Rhapsody proves a commercial hit during the early days of its limited run, however, theater operators may well expand its screen count — there will be no go-to mechanism of restriction once it's already in cinemas." Was that incorrect reporting?

I'm well aware of what I'm saying, I replied to your argument and I thought I'd made my differing opinion and the reasons behind it relatively clear. Anyway, since we aren't getting anywhere and you aren't addressing any of my points in return then it's better to agree to disagree or at least put this discussion on hold until we get more concrete casting information.

That's a really big topic and worthy of a different discussion but I don't agree that Chinese people are waiting on an American company and American created character to represent them. Chinese cinema is getting better and better, it can and should make it's own heroes. Not rely on stories told from the West. Specifically about Shang Chi, he is originally half white American. So would you want a mixed race actor to represent Chinese people or are willing to change and ignore that because that is ok? We cannot be insistent on one part of the character and ignore another to suit a discussion. Also, if you go the route you suggest, where do you draw the line? For example, is it ok to have an American or British actor with one Chinese parent or is it only for totally Chinese actors? How about if they are from Singapore or Malaysia with Chinese ancestry but spent no time in China or with Chinese people, is that acceptable in your opinion? Don't you see how this becomes almost farcical? Black Panther wasn't only casting African Americans. It cast Black actors from different countries and different origins. They put on African accents but they were not African. They portrayed being from an African country but none of them grew up in Africa afaik. Now this is different because Wakanda is a fictional country and Shang Chi has a Chinese father in the comics, but I still think they can be flexible with the story if necessary. I only suggest modernising it to remove references to him being Chinese because of the argument that it would be offensive to have him played by an actor without Chinese blood. I would much prefer to keep the Chinese elements and have the best actor for the role portray him. Think about if this becomes the norm and you are an actor from a small Asian country or a descendant from that country, how difficult it would be for you to get cast or amount of roles you would be blocked from because you weren't fortunate enough to be born with the right blood. You may say that's an extreme example but that is the road you are going down if we start insisting on segregating actors like this. That's already been the case for Asian Americans and other minorities in Hollywood with so many lead roles taken by White actors/actresses and now we are starting to section off these other roles too? Hollywood is doing more and more to be diverse and more colour blind, although it has a long way to go, but I feel this kind of talk is a backwards step. As I said before, it's such a dangerous path to go down for acting and casting of roles imo and risks opening up a bigger can of worms in the future, creating more division than anything positive.

Yes, Marvel has shown it is willing to completely change backstories of major characters from the comics, I don't see why they would hesitate to do so for this character if needed. As you say, a lot of the story needs to be reworked to remove stereotypes anyway. It could easily be an Asian American story with no reference to a specific country if necessary.

Thank you both. I wasn't really aware of that, I thought the character was a bigger name by itself in the US at least.

Yes, I think so too. The cuts don't appear to have hurt it significantly review wise. However I am hesitant to make a judgement on the reception until more reviews come in from a (possible) wider release. Wow didn’t know it was that old lol. The poster does look pretty cool and eye catching.

Can any Americans speak on how popular or well known Shazam is as a character outside if this movie? Either in terms of DC, comic book characters or general mainstream knowledge. Do you think a lot of people recognise him by image if you showed them a picture, do they know the name etc.? Just some thoughts would be helpful, even from just a friends and family standpoint or even just personally.

Judging from this interview https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/james-cameron-reveals-dark-title-new-terminator-movie-teases-hardened-sarah-connor-224538641.html , Cameron seems to be happy working with Miller 'Cameron is quick to note that this is Miller’s show all the way. “Tim’s a very willful and opinionated director, and he’s got his own ideas for the film. I’m kind of like the Pips — he’s Gladys.” and said Miller has embraced the ideas Cameron had thematically 'It’s a very female-centric film, which I’m glad Tim embraced those themes.”' So hopefully that bodes well for a healthy balance between their creative minds.

There could be lots if factors at play here. As mentioned in my previous post, it has a relatively small amount of votes since it's still in limited release. If it is a wide release, it's likely the average will go lower with scores from more casual cinema goers who didn't actively seek it out. Another aspect could be fans of the movie giving high ratings to try and encourage a wider release. This is just speculation but it's not unheard of. Thirdly, I guess the people who saw it may just really like the movie lol.

It's a small sample size for us to take a serious conclusion from, since it's based on a limited audience who one would think are more dedicated fans or at least an eager target audience who are seeking it out. So that needs to be taken into consideration but still, it's a high score.

Yes, I agree with you on most of your points which is why I don't think it will have as negative an impact on it overseas as some are suggesting. The other factors you mentioned will restrict it more. There's still a question mark over the star power for me. Without a well known cast or a proven lead star, I'm curious how well known the character Shazam is in the US? And how popular is he as a DC character or as a comic book? As a non American I've never heard of him before talk of this movie. It's just getting a Chinese release April 3rd.

For already released movies, taking into account world wide impact across countries and age groups, West and East, I'd say Infinity War. The hype and attention was incredible, the box office outstanding and all the media and merchandise around it. It's really amazing to stop and think what the people behind the Marvel Universe have created. Day and date release in China is not confirmed yet.

Of course a lot of people will need to work and go to school the Sunday before and after to make up for the holiday, so that will likely bring down those weekends potential box office. Makes End Game's release date more important.

I see this a lot with Chinese box office predictions, it is an exciting market but 1 + 1 does not always equal 2 there. Just being a superhero movie doesn't equal success, we can't just throw around 100m like it's guaranteed easy money. For foreign movies it will be competing with Andhadhun which shouldn't be underestimated. Indeed, it's a really intriguing movie for me in that regard. I don't think it's about being a troll or biased. It's hard to put my finger on it, but I personally can't see many other countries making a movie like Shazam. That's just from the visuals and vibe from what I've seen as a non American viewer. Even the word just sounds so American lol. However, I think America has exported a lot of it's culture around the world for a long time that a lot of it can translate well, depending on how it's presented and how niche the references are. So I don't think that it's a death blow for its overseas prospects, it's just something to be wary of. Of course, Chinese audiences don't need action to watch a movie. However, Green Book is not a great example to use as it was marketed as an Oscar winning Best Picture movie (which still holds a lot of credibility and importance even internationally) and more importantly had a massively influential domestic partner behind it in Alibaba.

That Cameron inspired confidence. ;)

UK is not the best example since it's movie tastes generally align better with America compared to other territories. Be interesting to see the first reviews from other parts of Europe or Asia that aren't as closely connected with American culture though.

Curious why you'd think that? I think ITSV is/was a much easier sell than Shazam in China. Spiderman ITSV is so easy to market, recognisable name, brand and image, high quality animation that is perfect for taking kids to and was also popular with older fans of the character. Shazam is starting from zero in China with no real mainstream knowledge of the character or exactly who the movie is for.

Without the name value/fame of Spiderman either.

I agree Andhadhun will beat Shazam. Not necessarily because Shazam is bad, just because I think Andhadhun will resonate more with audiences in China.

I am fully aware of how much importance bloodline and heritage is in Asia, I just disagree with involving that into movie casting. For example, you just talked about how not all Asians are the same and then you suggest a Korean American, but in your opinion he's ok because his "people" are of Chinese descent. It all becomes a very twisted and messy way to define who is acceptable for who can be considered for roles. I don't really know how anyone can define what Chinese people want from an adaptation of an American comic that never had any impact in China.

I said momentum in Hollywood (and America) since that's where Disney is based, because CRA was a hit there. I'm well aware of CRA's performance in China. However, this is not about any love for Golding, he was merely a suggestion. This is about my own belief that we shouldn't be casting actors based on bloodlines which I believe leads us down the wrong path. Asians have hardly been given many starring roles in Hollywood movies as it is. Now we are starting to get more diverse roles for Asian actors in Hollywood movies and we are already putting barriers up about who can get what role based on their blood line or where there parents are from. To keep this on topic and related to Chinese box office (although I'm more than happy to continue in a relevant Shang Chi thread), Japan and China have a much more complex history and relationship but I still believe they could cast an Asian actor with different heritage to only Chinese and it still be a success in China. I don't see it causing a rage or China wide boycott that you seem to insinuate. Most of the audience in China or other countries won't care or even look into where the actor's parents are from, apart from some online social media commentators. Shang Chi is not Captain China after all. The key is Marvel's marketing focus and whether it is a good movie that will determine it's box office in China imo.

Lol You didn't address my post at all. If they modernise the story and don't directly reference him being Chinese, just an Asian American who learns martial arts, why would that make it completely fail in China? And Hollywood isn't about just about what you can do, it's also about what's hot and popularity. Can you name a dozen Chinese heritage actors with the current momentum in Hollywood Golding has post CRA? They will also be considering name value outside China as well.

The pictures I've seen look incredibly cheesy but these bits of feedback sound so positive. Maybe I should raise my expectations?