GirafficPark

I dont think that Alita will be any indication of A2s potential. Cameron is only a producer for it as far as the public knows, they couldn't care less about that, plenty of popular directors have been producers on total bombs, on both TV and the big screen. 'Producer' also dont mean they have any influence or effect. For example JJ Abrams is a producer on Westworld, but obviously he had little effect on it because its actually well planned, intelligent and good.

You said 120-130M, thats not a 'bit' more. $5M..maybe, so the fudge may not have been needed, but its still a flop and $5M wouldnt have changed that. Apart from anything else its not racism if a movie is miscast.

Trolls saying they wont see a movie they wouldnt have seen anyway doesnt count. Its a kids movie based on a kids book, how many of those kids do you suppose read the book, wanted to see the movie, but were put off because they are racist? Adults who read it as a child would be put off because it looked absolutely horrible.

Well AWIT was already a TV movie with white people, so...

Racism affects absolutely every movie since there are racists in every race. However AWIT wasnt hit by $20-30M because of it. It was hit because its a shitty movie. Oh and Oprah is the opposite of a BO draw, not because she is black, but because she is insufferable.

Star wars is quality dependant (which might be a better word than driven). Other franchises can be as bad as they like, china will bail them out, Star Wars doesn't have that luxury. Star Wars is too old for china to care. Nostalgia or not they dont care about a movies that are 7+ down the line, and they aren't interested in the older movies because they arent what they want.

Yeah, and F&F and Transformers did what now? Warcraft, Great wall etc? Sure china might like some good movies, but holy hell they love the garbage. RPO did well because its what they want, it just happens not to be a bad movie. Sure it proves that appealing to china doesnt have to mean making crap, but making crap is a lot easier and still makes the money.

Only Star Wars seems genuinely quality driven (or dependant), mainly because its a western phenomenon. Anything big in Asia and China specifically can be as abortionally awful as possible, it will still make bank. The JP franchise isnt quite in the fully safe zone, so cant afford to be absolute garbage. I dont think this is that bad yet, it still has loveability.

True, but you cant blame them when most massive movies (WW anyway) are just as bad if not worse. F&F, Transformers, even TFA all either terrible, excessively fan-service driven, or just plain dumb, and yet the return is $$$$$$$$$$$.

Id also like to point out that Thompson is getting shit for her performance in Westworld, some describing her as far too one dimensional, worse than most of the non-woke androids.

I agree somewhat, but i think it will work well in HDR. Most cinemas though dont have the contrast ratio to pull it off, I suspect it will be fine on UHD blu-ray. Ive seen this trend more and more lately, they seem to be making movies with the future in mind.

Its a terrible movie by most objective measures, but sometimes those movies are entertaining and somehow none of the bad things matter. This is one of those. Its not a rare thing among big blockbuster movies, but some do it better than others, some do it by accident, some try and fail, and some dont intend to be bad, but accidentally are. This seems like a deliberate attempt that works.

I actually think TLJs haters should think of it as a necessary evil at this point. With all the pointless, redundant plot threads from TFA being junked in TLJ EP9 has a chance of being a coherent finale. If TLJ has addressed them, or ignored them you would have still had a messy movie, with EP9 having to deal with the leftovers. At least now the story is more focused.

Well, they did, but had to film the movie almost twice..

Indirectly it can. Solo is a brash figure, and very much an American in attitude, which is why he is popular there. Thats not popular right now outside the US. Speaking with others, its clear that Solo was never the popular figure here (the UK) he was in the US, thats only going to be even more true of Europe.

Im saying TFA was so full of garbage plot points that it set up any follow up badly. TLJ wasnt a good movie, but it would have taken something exceptional to deal with all the crap TFA left to deal with. As I said, $2B is great, but I feel like almost any old junk would have taken $1.5B and by doing what they did they already cost themselves the difference in the follow ups, maybe double the difference by the end of EP9. A better plan and opening movie might have yielded as much or more money by the end of EP9 and left SW with a better reputation, and more chance to do successful spin-offs. Going back to JJ is a panic response and at this point their decision making is questionable anyway.

As with most things, the reality is somewhere in the middle. It was a factor sure, buy not the primary cause.

So like EP1-3, and EP7 then. TLJ has structural and plot issues, no one is going to deny that, but its not so bad as to make it 'atrocious'. The fanbase has over reacted to TLJ in such a huge way its affected the GA reaction as well. I dont get why TPM got given so much slack compared to TLJ, it is an objectively worse movie. I suspect the Solo problem is the result of all the recent Disney movies, not just TLJ. Admitting they had no plan didnt exactly inspire confidence, the reaction to TFA has softened a great deal since release, people are coming round to the fact that it was a bad movie from a story point of view with a messy plot and too many loose ends. RO was fine, but a bit sterile and unnecessary.

Everyone is supposed to like the galaxy far far away as well..

Star wars would do well enough long term if they hadnt started out like TFA. They painted themselves into a very mediocre and dull corner with TFA. Sure TFA itself did huge money, but the returns since arent so stellar. Its like TFA was them peaking far too soon financially and from now on its downhill all the way. A more adventurous, and more planned out approach would have given the franchise a much longer lifespan, and ultimately more money. They rehired Abrams because they paniced, and at the wrong time. He cant do conclusions, so EP9 will be an unsatisfying mess.

Nice that you are now pulling figures out of thin air, and they are still not comparable.

JW2 isnt doing itself any favours with the horrific trailer introduction using the Stars. It might not be in front of all trailers everywhere, but it is here in the UK. Its cringy and awful.

Who would have thought that a star wars movie could be outgrossed by at least 2 of the last 3 Star Trek movies, and possibly all 3?

Jeez, my local has cancelled tonights last Deadpool showing, and the last 2 Solo showings.

If RO was in TFA afterglow then this is suffering from the hangover. TFA started this debacle.