The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[HummingLemon496]

4 hours ago, Bob Train said:

If it opens at only $60m, then sub-Flash WW is a possibility.

It would need Shazam 2 level legs to not outgross The Flash off a $60M opening

[Bob Train]

33 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

It would need Shazam 2 level legs to not outgross The Flash off a $60M opening

If WoM isn't great, which is always possible, it will have Shazam 2 legs most likely. There are plenty of options for audiences to pick of starting 2nd weekend, such as Trolls 3, and THG prequel. If WoM is bad we could see MCU 2nd weekend drop record be broken again.

[TheFlatLannister]

35 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

It would need Shazam 2 level legs to not outgross The Flash off a $60M opening

Yeah sub $300M is not happening. Thanksgiving + Christmas will surely help domestics legs and China will add $30m+

[HummingLemon496]

26 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

If WoM isn't great, which is always possible, it will have Shazam 2 legs most likely. There are plenty of options for audiences to pick of starting 2nd weekend, such as Trolls 3, and THG prequel. If WoM is bad we could see MCU 2nd weekend drop record be broken again.

Even Ant-Man and The Flush cleared 2x. Shazam 2 had 1.91x legs. Sorry I don't see that happening

[Bob Train]

4 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Even Ant-Man and The Flush cleared 2x. Shazam 2 had 1.91x legs. Sorry I don't see that happening

Flash released in Summer and it did not hit 2x. The biggest competition Ant-Man faced 2nd weekend was Cocaine Bear lol. And this will have Veterans day boosting OW. If it is bad, there is no reason for it to have much over 2x legs.

[HummingLemon496]

1 hour ago, Bob Train said:

Flash released in Summer and it did not hit 2x. The biggest competition Ant-Man faced 2nd weekend was Cocaine Bear lol. And this will have Veterans day boosting OW. If it is bad, there is no reason for it to have much over 2x legs.

Oh yeah I forgot Flash didn't clear 2x. But still, 1.91x is such an abysmally low bar that even if it's not that good I don't see how it somehow goes below that.

[ThomasNicole]

Yeah people won´t fall for the narrative that Disney is succesfully selling for years anymore. The movies have to be good, not just allegedly important.

 

 

[Willowra]

19 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Yeah people won´t fall for the narrative that Disney is succesfully selling for years anymore. The movies have to be good, not just allegedly important.

 

 

I've seen a lot of hit hate tweets against this movie and not a single hit love tweet for this movie in the past few months. It seems like a lot of people have pre-decided not to give this movie even a try because they have the presumption that the movie is bad and because they have irrational hatred towards its lead actor and the character. I don't know how much the reviews are going to help this movie when they have pre-decided not to give it a try in bad faith.

[ThomasNicole]

14 minutes ago, Willowra said:

I've seen a lot of hit hate tweets against this movie and not a single hit love tweet for this movie in the past few months. It seems like a lot of people have pre-decided not to give this movie even a try because they have the presumption that the movie is bad and because they have irrational hatred towards its lead actor and the character. I don't know how much the reviews are going to help this movie when they have pre-decided not to give it a try in bad faith.

I don´t think the problem here is people who hate Brie Larson. Yeah they existed, they´re a lot and they all sucked, but they didn´t prevent the first movie from being huge for example. 

 

The problem here is that even the demographics that cares about representation etc don´t seem to care about this. 

 

The tweet i posted for example is not from an incel, the hundred of quotes mocking the movie are from reasonable people, including lots ofa women excited for other female movies other than this one. To me this is the major problem here, the movie is getting apathy even from people that should be excited. 

 

This is not exactly bad faith, this is a sign that Disney and Marvel really needs to rethink the quality and how they handle projects for minorities, because right now everything they do just seems a bit fake.

[Willowra]

18 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

I don´t think the problem here is people who hate Brie Larson. Yeah they existed, they´re a lot and they all sucked, but they didn´t prevent the first movie from being huge for example. 

 

The problem here is that even the demographics that cares about representation etc don´t seem to care about this. 

 

The tweet i posted for example is not from an incel, the hundred of quotes mocking the movie are from reasonable people, including lots ofa women excited for other female movies other than this one. To me this is the major problem here, the movie is getting apathy even from people that should be excited. 

 

This is not exactly bad faith, this is a sign that Disney and Marvel really needs to rethink the quality and how they handle projects for minorities, because right now everything they do just seems a bit fake.

Nope, this is a mixture of both those who have presumptions that the movie is bad and those who hate the lead actor and the character. And your last sentence proves my point that people already believe that movie is bad even though reviews aren't out yet.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Willowra

[ThomasNicole]

2 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Nope, this is a mixture of both those who have presumptions that the movie is bad and those who hate the lead actor and the character. And your last sentence proves my point that people believe that movie is bad even though reviews aren't out yet.

You really believe everyone who don´t want to watch this is people who hate Brie? Come on now.

 

And yeah lots of people think it´s bad before reviews, this is normal. Every single movie is marketed to make people believe it´s good before they watch it, so they can pay for a ticket and go to theaters. When they didn´t market it well, people either don´t care or think it´s bad before they watch it so they don´t go to the theaters, this is how it works for decades and we have a lot of examples this year, even from good movies like D&D. 

 

You can´t blame the audiences for not wanting to watch a movie, it´s the studio responsability to discover what they´re doing wrong. Like i said, the incels exist and they all suck but they didn´t stopped the first movie to make 1.1B, so if this one fails, there´s no way you can say it´s just the Brie haters.

[JustLurking]

"Supporting a film" is a bizarre concept. No one "supported" Barbie. People simply went to see it because they liked what they saw, or because other people told them it was good.

 

It's not a charity, nobody shows up because they are told a film is allegedly important, they show up because they are interested. No one's thought process for Barbie was "well it's directed by a woman so it's important I have to see it", it's "well the trailers looked fun!" or "my friends told me its a good film".

[HummingLemon496]

13 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

"Supporting a film" is a bizarre concept. No one "supported" Barbie. People simply went to see it because they liked what they saw, or because other people told them it was good.

 

It's not a charity, nobody shows up because they are told a film is allegedly important, they show up because they are interested. No one's thought process for Barbie was "well it's directed by a woman so it's important I have to see it", it's "well the trailers looked fun!" or "my friends told me its a good film".

What makes it more funny is that there was a brief period where some people on r/boxoffice thought Barbie would have mixed word of mouth and be some front-loaded fan-event, like come on lmao. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by HummingLemon496

[Willowra]

12 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

You really believe everyone who don´t want to watch this is people who hate Brie? Come on now.

 

And yeah lots of people think it´s bad before reviews, this is normal. Every single movie is marketed to make people believe it´s good before they watch it, so they can pay for a ticket and go to theaters. When they didn´t market it well, people either don´t care or think it´s bad before they watch it so they don´t go to the theaters, this is how it works for decades and we have a lot of examples this year, even from good movies like D&D. 

 

You can´t blame the audiences for not wanting to watch a movie, it´s the studio responsability to discover what they´re doing wrong. Like i said, the incels exist and they all suck but they didn´t stopped the first movie to make 1.1B, so if this one fails, there´s no way you can say it´s just the Brie haters.

Nope I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that those who don't want to watch the movie are all brie haters. But a narrative definitely exists for this movie that this movie is total garbage, whereas such a narrative was absent for other MCU movies. And yes, you're right that Marvel Studios past mistakes are responsible for this. Also, the 4.5-year gap between the first one and this one was just too much for a character who had just a 5-minute cameo in Endgame and whose first movie wasn't that much liked. The character faded away from the minds of even those who cared about it, including females.

[Willowra]

31 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

"Supporting a film" is a bizarre concept. No one "supported" Barbie. People simply went to see it because they liked what they saw, or because other people told them it was good.

 

It's not a charity, nobody shows up because they are told a film is allegedly important, they show up because they are interested. No one's thought process for Barbie was "well it's directed by a woman so it's important I have to see it", it's "well the trailers looked fun!" or "my friends told me its a good film".

A lot of people bought tickets to MoM just because they believed the movie was "important". A few of those were my friends too. So what is important or not important may not matter much for other franchises, but it definitely matters a lot when it comes to the MCU, and this is the reason why Captain Marvel made 1.1B because people thought the movie is very important to understand Endgame. So interest is directly proportional to importance in the MCU.

[JustLurking]

1 minute ago, Willowra said:

A lot of people bought tickets to MoM just because they believed the movie was "important". A few of those were my friends too. So what is important or not important may not matter much for other franchises, but it definitely matters a lot when it comes to the MCU, and this is the reason why Captain Marvel made 1.1B because people thought the movie is very important to understand Endgame. So interest is directly proportional to importance in the MCU.

I'm talking about social importance, not importance within the MCU's story man.

 

It's really fucking cool that Barbie broke records as a female-directed blockbuster! But nobody showed up because it was "important to support a female-directed blockbuster". That's simply not people's reasoning when going to the theater, and anyone who claims otherwise is lying.

[Willowra]

11 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

I'm talking about social importance, not importance within the MCU's story man.

 

It's really fucking cool that Barbie broke records as a female-directed blockbuster! But nobody showed up because it was "important to support a female-directed blockbuster". That's simply not people's reasoning when going to the theater, and anyone who claims otherwise is lying.

 

11 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

I'm talking about social importance, not importance within the MCU's story man.

 

It's really fucking cool that Barbie broke records as a female-directed blockbuster! But nobody showed up because it was "important to support a female-directed blockbuster". That's simply not people's reasoning when going to the theater, and anyone who claims otherwise is lying.

You're right but the likes that tweet got aren't just from people who didn't like that social commentary but they are from mixture of people. And this is just 1 tweet, I've seen a number of other hit hate tweets for this movie, such a hate was absent for other MCU movies before their releases.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Willowra

[JustLurking]

11 minutes ago, Willowra said:

 

You're right but the likes that tweet got aren't just from people who didn't like that social commentary but they are from mixture of people. And this is just 1 tweet, I've seen a number of other hit hate tweets for this movie, such a hate was absent for other MCU movies before their releases.

Yes this film is getting way more hate than usual MCU films. Yes a lot of nerds are angry sexist incels. This film was going to tank with them regardless so a better question for Marvel should be why it's failing with the intended demographic and what they did wrong in bringing it out.

 

FWIW, I asked my mom (who is quite the marvel fan) and she told me, and I quote, that she wasn't interested because "I like Captain Marvel but I don't care about the other two kids".

 

This is definitely anedoctal and to be taken with a grain of salt, but definitely reinforced my opinion that this team-up was a mistake. This should've just been Captain Marvel 2.

Edited October 21, 2023 by JustLurking

[Willowra]

4 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

Yes this film is getting way more hate than usual MCU films. Yes a lot of nerds are angry sexist incels. This film was going to tank with them regardless so a better question for Marvel should be why it's failing with the intended demographic and what they did wrong in bringing it out.

 

FWIW, I asked my mom (who is quite the marvel fan) and she told me, and I quote, that she wasn't interested because "I like Captain Marvel but I don't care about the other two kids".

 

This is definitely anedoctal and to be taken with a grain of salt, but definitely reinforced my opinion that this team-up was a mistake. This should've just been Captain Marvel 2.

Yes Deadline also mentioned this in the article. And I can't comment on your last paragraph because of @Eric Mouse

[fede75]

1 hour ago, JustLurking said:

Yes this film is getting way more hate than usual MCU films. Yes a lot of nerds are angry sexist incels. This film was going to tank with them regardless so a better question for Marvel should be why it's failing with the intended demographic and what they did wrong in bringing it out.

 

FWIW, I asked my mom (who is quite the marvel fan) and she told me, and I quote, that she wasn't interested because "I like Captain Marvel but I don't care about the other two kids".

 

This is definitely anedoctal and to be taken with a grain of salt, but definitely reinforced my opinion that this team-up was a mistake. This should've just been Captain Marvel 2.

Monica is like Winter Soldier or Falcon in a Captain america film. Or like War Machine in the Iron Man films. More like an organic partner for the franchise ( and possible eventual succesor) instead of a team-up. The only difference is that she obtain the powers in the wanda series. Like if rhodey get the armor at the end of Incredible Hulk instead of directly in Iron Man 2. Kamala yes is another completely different thing because all about her was presented in the Ms Marvel series 

Edited October 21, 2023 by fede75