The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[emoviefan]

2 hours ago, Bob Train said:

Imagine telling someone in 2019 that a horror movie released simultaneously on streaming and in theaters would open higher than the sequel to Captain Marvel.

 

Audiences are tired of the MCU, the low-quality products aren't helping, so they are moving on to new franchises.

Hey we are so tired of the MCU and it's low quality product let's go see that movie that's so good it's studio is day and dating it.

[SpiderByte]

I think there's a number of reasons for what's happening. Disney has been under tracking all year opening wise,  the strike certainly doesn't help, all of which I'm sure everyone will be litigating at nauseam till Cap 4 releases.

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, emoviefan said:

Hey we are so tired of the MCU and it's low quality product let's go see that movie that's so good it's studio is day and dating it.

True cinema savior incoming. I joke, but the market always will regulate itself. If FNAF is good, it will click with the audiences. If it isn’t, it won’t. I’m a big believer that this serves to any blockbuster. 

[ZattMurdock]

3 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I think there's a number of reasons for what's happening. Disney has been under tracking all year opening wise,  the strike certainly doesn't help, all of which I'm sure everyone will be litigating at nauseam till Cap 4 releases.

Oh, it won’t stop until Deadpool 3 blows up. Then it will be the narrative that it only blew up because it’s not truly just Marvel Studios. 
 

I also find extremely weird and funny how the online chatter is now that the ‘MCU is rebooting’, ironically like DC is doing and heavily announced, but Marvel never did such thing. It’s interesting because one of the online talking points about DC films was that if they were rebooting, what is happening now ‘doesn’t really matter’. I could get real money that Marvel Studios will once again blow up the box office coming Secret Wars but it’s not rebooting. The MCU true strength is the sense of serialized storytelling, and that won’t be going away anytime soon. It just is what it is. If anything, it would be a good day if we could just not carry by ourselves the burden of killing cinema. Maybe Scorsese will find out what Five Night At Freddy’s is next week. Hopefully his granddaughter will explain that it isn’t really a Marvel property, but a videogame one? Idk.

[emoviefan]

3 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

True cinema savior incoming. I joke, but the market always will regulate itself. If FNAF is good, it will click with the audiences. If it isn’t, it won’t. I’m a big believer that this serves to any blockbuster. 

Yep. That's why I am somewhat with you on the Marvels. I think you are a little too optimistic on it but to think good reviews and WOM wont help it much at all and that a mega bomb is almost a given is just too much for me to agree with. 

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, emoviefan said:

Yep. That's why I am somewhat with you on the Marvels. I think you are a little too optimistic on it but to think good reviews and WOM wont help it much at all and that a mega bomb is almost a given is just too much for me to agree with. 

I don’t think The Marvels is the second coming of Barbie. Far from it. I just think that people fail to remember how The Winter Soldier or some of the best MCU films became popular. It wasn’t on MCU brand alone, it is about being actually excellent films. There is a lot of revisionist shit when it comes to the MCU, people keep trying to trash No Way Home but that one did one of the most insane box office runs of our lifetimes and it did that still during a pandemic scenario and with 0 dollars from China. That was less than two years ago. Not bad for a dying franchise, I guess.

 

What I believe is that if The Marvels is a great film, and the talent behind makes me think it might be, it will find its audience. Good films always win.

[SpiderByte]

If the issue is inconsistent quality, good reviews will be a way to rebuild momentum franchise wide, not just with wom on this.

Edited October 21, 2023 by SpiderByte

[TheFlatLannister]

2 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Oh my.....300-350m worldwide? I was thinking Indy 5 numbers

70% drop unless WOM is strong 

[boxoff53]

11 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I think there's a number of reasons for what's happening. Disney has been under tracking all year opening wise,  the strike certainly doesn't help, all of which I'm sure everyone will be litigating at nauseam till Cap 4 releases.

I'd find that preferable to the discussions about why or if people like captain marvel.  Would certainly be more interesting than a conversation that is reminding me of when people insisted a certain star wars movie didn't damage the franchise. If i recall correctly, there were months of debates based on box office numbers,  followed by the next one limping past making a billion less than the first one, with both sides interpreting this as proof they were right. 

 

Hmmm, now that i think about it,  the two conversations probably won't be that much different from each other. If marvel goes the game way as star wars post 2017, Disney's panic should be pretty interesting. 

[emoviefan]

4 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

I don’t think The Marvels is the second coming of Barbie. Far from it. I just think that people fail to remember how The Winter Soldier or some of the best MCU films became popular. It wasn’t on MCU brand alone, it is about being actually excellent films. There is a lot of revisionist shit when it comes to the MCU, people keep trying to trash No Way Home but that one did one of the most insane box office runs of our lifetimes and it did that still during a pandemic scenario and with 0 dollars from China. That was less than two years ago. Not bad for a dying franchise, I guess.

 

What I believe is that if The Marvels is a great film, and the talent behind makes me think it might be, it will find its audience. Good films always win.

Yep.  If the Marvels is good they would be wise not to hold the review embargo until week of release. And that does not mean social media the week of the 3rd and reviews during release week. Nobody trusts Social media embargos amymore. They all sound the same and wont move the needle on tracking much at all. 

[DInky]

3 minutes ago, emoviefan said:

Yep.  If the Marvels is good they would be wise not to hold the review embargo until week of release. And that does not mean social media the week of the 3rd and reviews during release week. Nobody trusts Social media embargos amymore. They all sound the same and wont move the needle on tracking much at all. 

 

The thing is that you also don't want to release the reviews too early, noone will be talking about them by the time the movie comes out. But I think the problem for Marvel is that they don't know if they have a good movie on their hands or not. They thought they did with Quantumania and it blew up in their face.

[SpiderByte]

It's also worth noting that Disneys under tracking openings aren't necessarily related to reviews, both the well and poorly received movies have had bad openings, even though it does affect legs.

 

Paramount too, but mostly that's been release date timing.

[DInky]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

It's also worth noting that Disneys under tracking openings aren't necessarily related to reviews, both the well and poorly received movies have had bad openings, even though it does affect legs.

 

Paramount too, but mostly that's been release date timing.

 

Good reviews definitely boosted GotG 3's OW.

[emoviefan]

9 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

The thing is that you also don't want to release the reviews too early, noone will be talking about them by the time the movie comes out. But I think the problem for Marvel is that they don't know if they have a good movie on their hands or not. They thought they did with Quantumania and it blew up in their face.

Not sure with Quantam. Eternals for sure. Kevin though that was a best picture quality movie. He was really off on that. 

[DInky]

Just now, emoviefan said:

Not sure with Quantam. Eternals for sure. Kevin though that was a best picture quality movie. He was really off on that. 

 

In her new book MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios Joanna Robinson says that Marvel Studios was completely caught off guard by the negative critical reception to Quantumania. They thought they had a hit on their hands.

[ZattMurdock]

16 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

It's also worth noting that Disneys under tracking openings aren't necessarily related to reviews, both the well and poorly received movies have had bad openings, even though it does affect legs.

 

Paramount too, but mostly that's been release date timing.

Trust me when I say this: a subdued opening weekend for an actual great Marvel Studios film will result on mighty legs. The template here should be Doctor Strange, and I’d argue that unlike that one, this has the potential to break $300m DOM even if it opens around Strange’s ballpark domestic. Harder to say OS, but it should also follow.

 

Domestically, I still think that Kamala Khan is this film’s true secret weapon. At crazy times like this, she seems like a character that is needed right now. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[emoviefan]

5 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

In her new book MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios Joanna Robinson says that Marvel Studios was completely caught off guard by the negative critical reception to Quantumania. They thought they had a hit on their hands.

Wow really. That's the shit that scares me.  

[DInky]

9 minutes ago, emoviefan said:

Wow really. That's the shit that scares me.  

 

Quote

"[Marvel Studios] is aware of what's happening to their brand. My understanding, having talked to some people, is that ‘Quantumania’ really shook them, and I'm sure ‘Secret Invasion’ shook them further, but ‘Quantumania’ really shook them because they felt like they had something good. Because they all internally thought, 'Everyone's gonna love this.' And then they put it out and people didn't. And then they were like, 'Oh no, our internal barometer is not attuned to what people want anymore.' With ‘Quantumania,’ they were like, 'We put out a banger.' And then that's not how a lot of people felt."

 

At least it looks like Marvel is aware that reactions from studio insiders are not the best barometer of quality.

Edited October 21, 2023 by DInky

[boxoff53]

25 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

 

At least it looks like Marvel is aware that reactions from studio insiders are not the best barometer of quality.

I haven't seen any marvel movies since doctor strange 2, and i didn't bother finishing black widow,  but i would be interested to hear specifically what marvel felt strongly about and compare it to what people say they didn't like.  As juicy as this is,  i want details

Edited October 21, 2023 by boxoff53

[Bob Train]

3 hours ago, TheFlatLannister said:

I doubt FNAF turns into a multi film franchise. Barbie defintely feels like a one-hit wonder, where any spin-off would do a fraction of $1.4B. Mario is the only viable long term movie IP here and that's because its one of the biggest names in all of entertainment. 

FNAF 2 could do even bigger numbers, if they ditch the D&D release. 

 

Barbie 1 -> Barbie 2 feels like a Jurassic World -> Fallen Kingdom drop to me, but I think a Ken spinoff could do very well considering he was the best part of it

 

Mario 2 will outgross Mario 1, that is usually how these things go