Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[Rebeccas]

Just now, IronJimbo said:

yeah everyone loves Titanic, who made it?

You know a director's filmography is variable right.. like half of Spielberg's filmography is forgotten.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Rebeccas

[Barnack]

21 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

name a stand alone film (original, non sequel, non book, non franchise) with bigger "pop culture" from this century.

 

Candidate are not many (and will depend of the market), going by not popular material and popular because of the movie instead of pure original and not making validation thinking about it:

 

Some candidate loosely ranked:

 

Shrek

Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl(well it was a ride...)

Finding Nemo

Mamma Mia!

Gladiator

Inception

The Hangover 

Amélie

The Intouchables

8 Mile

Fast and Furious (if we do not call it a point break remake)

Minority Report 

Kill Bill

Mean girl

Brokeback Mountain 

Juno

 

Nothing that clearly above Avatar but not too far either and Internet is misleading here, on IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/search/title?year=2009&title_type=feature&view=advanced

 

It is not the most popular 2009 release for example.

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Barnack

[Barnack]

19 minutes ago, Rebeccas said:

Avatar is utterly irrelevant in pop culture. Titanic, despite being over 20 years old, is still more iconic.

That is such an high bar thought, Titanic is the third most loved movie by american adult:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gone-but-not-forgotten-gone-with-the-wind-is-still-americas-favorite-movie-300010911.html

 

Only Gone With the Wind and Star Wars are more popular, there is a giant step between irrelevant and Titanic level of relevance.

 

Just an hour ago, someone at work that saw Black Panther in theater said:

 

My wife gave it a 10, I also give it a 10, best movie I saw since the 3D movie with the blue people in space,

- Me: Avatar ?

Yes that one.

 

That how big it is among regular audience that love going in theater for the set piece and effects, almost 10 year's later and still referenced as the best movie they ever saw and what they compare big new release to. Not able to name anyone in it, any quote, or give a resume to what happen, but the world/design/energy/experience was one of the most memorable in history of cinema.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Barnack

[Rebeccas]

9 minutes ago, Barnack said:

That is such an high bar thought, Titanic is the third most loved movie by american adult:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gone-but-not-forgotten-gone-with-the-wind-is-still-americas-favorite-movie-300010911.html

 

Only Gone With the Wind and Star Wars are more popular, there is a giant step between irrelevant and Titanic level of relevance.

I mean, those were all highest grossing films ever at one point too? I think all highest grossing movies have that level of pop culture relevance, whether its ET or Jurassic Park or Sound of Music. It's an anomaly for Avatar to have that box office crown but be like a big ass no1curr in pop culture.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Rebeccas

[IronJimbo]

12 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Shrek

Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl(well it was a ride...)

Finding Nemo

Mamma Mia!

Gladiator

Inception

The Hangover 

Amélie

The Intouchables

8 Mile

Fast and Furious (if we do not call it a point break remake)

Minority Report 

Kill Bill

Mean girl

Brokeback Mountain 

Juno

Would it be fair to compare Avatar with films which have sequels?

The argument that is repeated over and over is that Avatar's impact on pop culture is poor, comparing Avatar to say Shrek isn't exactly a fair comparison (which ever may be bigger) when this is the argument at hand.

[IronJimbo]

17 minutes ago, Barnack said:

That is such an high bar thought, Titanic is the third most loved movie by american adult:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gone-but-not-forgotten-gone-with-the-wind-is-still-americas-favorite-movie-300010911.html

 

Only Gone With the Wind and Star Wars are more popular, there is a giant step between irrelevant and Titanic level of relevance.

 

Just an hour ago, someone at work that saw Black Panther in theater said:

 

My wife gave it a 10, I also give it a 10, best movie I saw since the 3D movie with the blue people in space,

- Me: Avatar ?

Yes that one.

 

That how big it is among regular audience that love going in theater for the set piece and effects, almost 10 year's later and still referenced as the best movie they ever saw and what they compare big new release to. Not able to name anyone in it, any quote, or give a resume to what happen, but the world/design/energy/experience was one of the most memorable in history of cinema.

Which will all come with the sequels and time.

Star Wars had sequels and Gone With the Wind was re-released over 11 times in a time before home cinema.

Edited February 21, 2018 by IronJimbo

[Barnack]

1 minute ago, Rebeccas said:

I mean, those were all highest grossing films ever at one point too? I think all highest grossing movies have that level of pop culture relevance, whether its ET or Jurassic Park or Sound of Music. It's an anomaly for Avatar to have that box office crown but be like a big ass no1curr in pop culture.

Many of the biggest movie domestic ever appear on that list yes

 

Timeline highest grossing movie / rank on the most number 1 favorite movie of all time among US adults in 2014

 

Birth of a nation: -

Gone With the Wind: 1

Sound of Music: 6

Gone With the Wind (re-releases, retake the title): 1

The Godfather: 4

Jaws: -

Star Wars: 2

E.T.: 10

Jurassic Park: -

Titanic: 3

Avatar: -

 

Fair to say that for now Jaws/Jurassic Park imprint are also bigger in the US than Avatar.

 

It is maybe a bit low relative to the size of it's box office because of lack of loved character and the BO boosted by the 3D craze (that in itself, popularizing 3D/bluray for a little while was really a big pop culture impact for a movie), but it is still giant.

[Barnack]

8 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Would it be fair to compare Avatar with films which have sequels?

Except for F&F that added a little bit, most of the cultural impact of the above are purely from the first movie too no ? It is rare for a sequel to have any pop culture relevance, Empire bringing a Yoda/“No, I am your father.” is rather rare.

[IronJimbo]

We got a Disneyland park,

 

We got a mountain in China named after it

We got a Cirque du Soleil show,

 

In this new 12,000-square-foot entertainment and educational experience in Shenzen China

 

We have Penang's Avatar Secret Garden

 

All this for a stand-alone film not based existing films/book/comics... wow.

 

 

[IronJimbo]

2 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Except for F&F that added a little bit, most of the cultural impact of the above are purely from the first movie too no ? It is rare for a sequel to have any pop culture relevance, Empire bringing a Yoda/“No, I am your father.” is rather rare.

It's pure speculation to say how memorable Shrek would be without it's sequels, Shrek 2 is pretty great.

To me it's fair to say they wouldn't be remembered as well as they are without their sequels (not to imply no one remembers Avatar (they do))

Edited February 21, 2018 by IronJimbo

[Barnack]

5 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

It's pure speculation to say how memorable Shrek would be without it's sequels, Shrek 2 is pretty great.

 

Yeah the cat added to it's legacy you are right. Monster inc  and Shrek Would still be up there without sequels too, changed the animation market, the Oscar, Shrek is now a common word, etc...

[DAJK]

1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

name a stand alone film (original, non sequel, non book, non franchise) with bigger "pop culture" from this century.

 

This pop culture meme has been regurgitated endlessly ever since Scott Meddleson's article, of course franchises are going to have more memes and toys, who cares.. it doesn't relate to box office in any quantifiable way.

 

Frozen is disney princess... I can't think of any others.

Mean Girls

 

Im not kidding

 

(I'll add inside out to the list. Hell, I'd even say the first High School Musical has had a bigger influence on pop culture than avatar)

 

titanic on the other hand

Edited February 21, 2018 by DAJK

[IronJimbo]

Just now, DAJK said:

Mean Girls

 

Im not kidding

I don't know what I get into the pop culture argument every time it's brought up... how are you meant to quantify Avatar vs Mean Girls? Where would I even start.

[Barnack]

1 minute ago, DAJK said:

Mean Girls

 

Im not kidding

I was not kidding when I placed it in my list either:

 

Shrek

Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl(well it was a ride...)

Finding Nemo

Mamma Mia!

Gladiator

Inception

The Hangover 

Amélie

The Intouchables

8 Mile

Fast and Furious (if we do not call it a point break remake)

Minority Report 

Kill Bill

Mean girl

Brokeback Mountain 

Juno

[MattW]

1 hour ago, Harpospoke said:

The upside of that is that it indicates there is a huge audience out there just waiting to spend money on a movie they like.   The people come back quick.   Just at Star Wars fans running back after the Prequels when TFA came out.   Some of them are unhappy now but they'll be back the minute there is a SW film they like.

I know it's not wise to doubt Cameron, but I can't help feeling that he'd better deliver something special with the next Avatar.   Marvel is killing it right now in an unprecedented way commercially, critically, and in popular culture.   Maybe I'm off base, but Marvel seems to be more ingrained in pop culture than Avatar at the moment.

Agreed.

 

I think Avatar 2 is likely to come back big and hit hard. Maybe not in every department, there are legitimate criticisms to Cameron when it comes to characterization and story sometimes, but overall he does a better job than anyone at putting together movies that are worth the price of admission. 

 

Avatar 3, 4 and 5 though I don't have nearly the same confidence in. They'll be coming one after the other and from the same creative place as Avatar 2. But we'll see.

[DAJK]

8 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

I don't know what I get into the pop culture argument every time it's brought up... how are you meant to quantify Avatar vs Mean Girls? Where would I even start.

Weren't you the one who asked the question though? 

[IronJimbo]

27 minutes ago, DAJK said:

Weren't you the one who asked the question though? 

Harpospokes brought up pop culture and Avatar.. then I escalated it

 

35 minutes ago, MattW said:

Agreed.

 

I think Avatar 2 is likely to come back big and hit hard. Maybe not in every department, there are legitimate criticisms to Cameron when it comes to characterization and story sometimes, but overall he does a better job than anyone at putting together movies that are worth the price of admission. 

 

Avatar 3, 4 and 5 though I don't have nearly the same confidence in. They'll be coming one after the other and from the same creative place as Avatar 2. But we'll see.

They've split it up now, it's Avatar 2&3 in 2020 and 2021 then it's Avatar 4&5 in 2024 and 2025. The production isn't being done all at once.

The scripts are all written though.

[TomCruiseTop]

1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

I don't know what I get into the pop culture argument every time it's brought up... how are you meant to quantify Avatar vs Mean Girls? Where would I even start.

Welcome to the Pop Culture Theory Forum! 

[Barnack]

Just now, JamesCameronScholar said:

Welcome to the Pop Culture Theory Forum! 

Talking about box office is pretty much pure pop culture trivia no ? Only talking about how popular something is.

[TomCruiseTop]

Just now, Barnack said:

Talking about box office is pretty much pure pop culture trivia no ? Only talking about how popular something is.

How popular something is in the narrowest sense of the word, namely a WASP American Internet Bias - Money on the other hand is (thankfully) far more universal a measure.