Racism and the Oscars thread

[baumer]

3 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

Yea, because Selma was fucking spectacular, and it got nothing in any acting or tech category or in Director, while shit shows like Theory of Everything and Imitation Game, the ultimate in uber white Oscar baiting, got nominated for stuff most people think they didn't deserve. Yea, Selma got ONE token nomination. Whoope. 

 

Also, why are you so quick to dismiss this shit, like it's some kind of annoying joke? I have no problem with people disagreeing with my opinion for logically argued reasons, because I can see the complicated, multifaceted nature of this debate, but the "Oh boo hoo black people are such whiners I'm sick of PC crap" argument holds zero weight in actual discussion. 

 

Selma was the definition of average.  What was great about it?  What made that film so good?  I thought it was poorly written and it did nothing to hold my attention.  So it was great according to you.  Obviously the academy felt differently, and many others did too.

[Cmasterclay]

1 minute ago, DAR said:

Some of the biggest films last year were headlined by some of the most diverse casts we've seen in major blockbusters.  That will have a far more lasting cultural relevance than getting bent out of shape over some silly awards show.

 

 

 

Sure, I do think that the diversity of movies like Star Wars IS a big deal, and really awesome. But I've argued several times that this is NOT just some silly awards show, otherwise it wouldn't generate the amount of attention and attract the hundreds of millions in advertising dollars and award campaigns that it does. It means something important int he industry. 

[CJohn]

9 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

Yea, because Selma was fucking spectacular, and it got nothing in any acting or tech category or in Director, while shit shows like Theory of Everything and Imitation Game, the ultimate in uber white Oscar baiting, got nominated for stuff most people think they didn't deserve. Yea, Selma got ONE token nomination. Whoope. 

 

Also, why are you so quick to dismiss this shit, like it's some kind of annoying joke? I have no problem with people disagreeing with my opinion for logically argued reasons, because I can see the complicated, multifaceted nature of this debate, but the "Oh boo hoo black people are such whiners I'm sick of PC crap" argument holds zero weight in actual discussion. 

I said several times David Oyelowo was snubbed so wtf are you talking about  And how am I dismissing anything? WTF? I never said black people were whiners (I am on their side and said it several times, I think studios execs and producers should give them stronger roles, what Viola Davis says above is 100% correct, and the whitewashing is a real thing, we just have to look at Exodus and Gods of Egypt) and I have no idea what PC means even if I see a lot of people here using it. It is not an expression used in Portugal. So stop attacking me like I saying something that is wrong.

 

Also, The Imitation Game > The Theory of Everything > Selma, that is my opinion. And I am pretty sure a lot more people agree with me. And I am sure as well some others don't. But calling them shit shows lmao. 

[baumer]

But again, you are jumping the gun if you are automatically calling racism just because there aren't more black nominees.  And I've said it a dozen times now, I can tell you ten other performances this year that were snubbed and they were all white.  

[DAR]

No it's a silly awards show that just happens to be the biggest fish in a sea of silly awards shows.  But one thing Hollywood likes to do is pat themselves on the back.

[Cmasterclay]

1 minute ago, Baumer said:

 

Selma was the definition of average.  What was great about it?  What made that film so good?  I thought it was poorly written and it did nothing to hold my attention.  So it was great according to you.  Obviously the academy felt differently, and many others did too.

First of all, Selma is really great for many reasons, but I've defended it too many times to get into it here. Certainly better than something as cliche or trite as Theory of Everything. But sure, that aside, is only one example, out of numerous. Sure, anyone can say "I didn't like that movie with POC, so why argue it didn't deserve a nom here or there?" Because I'm talking consensus opinion and well-reasoned arguments, and there has been instances throughout recent history where films and performances with massive consensus support and terrific notes were passed up in favor of things that were held in lesser regard by almost everyone. The Academy is a large voting body for a reason, it's supposed to represent some sort of consensus of well-thought out film opinion. 

 

And again, 20/20 actors are white. All eight of the best picture noms are about white people. There is tons and tons of prominent POC actors and filmmakers. Over 30 percent of the audience for movies is people of color. So again, why are ALL the best films and performances exclusively white people or near exclusively, every single year?

[DAR]

I gave the example the other day of Do the Right Thing vs Driving Miss Daisy. 

 

One will always continue to be culturally relevant and is one of the greatest films ever made.  The other is Driving Miss Daisy.

[Cmasterclay]

3 minutes ago, CJohn said:

I said several times David Oyelowo was snubbed so wtf are you talking about  And how am I dismissing anything? WTF? I never said black people were whiners (I am on their side and said it several times, I think studios execs and producers should give them stronger roles, what Viola Davis says above is 100% correct, and the whitewashing is a real thing, we just have to look at Exodus and Gods of Egypt) and I have no idea what PC means even if I see a lot of people here using it. It is not an expression used in Portugal. So stop attacking me like I saying something that is wrong.

 

Also, The Imitation Game > The Theory of Everything > Selma, that is my opinion. And I am pretty sure a lot more people agree with me. And I am sure as well some others don't. But calling them shit shows lmao. 

Well, I thought your post came off as a bit dismissive and condescending of the issue, like a bunch of people are just being whiners and complainers because they disagree with your opinion. But I didn't mean to attack you! I guess the language barrier does have an effect, and our tones just differ. So that's my mistake Cjohn, I didn't mean to attack you. And I'm sorry, really.  I'm not gonna debate the merits of Imitation Game and Selma anymore, but if you look at review and the consensus opinion of MOST, not all, but most people that saw both movies, and people liked Selma more. Again, large voting body, it's supposed to represent the consensus opinion of well-reasoned film analysis. But agree to disagree on that one.

 

Also, ask anyone who works as an actor, or in the industry, and they'll tell you that while yes, awards ARE frivolous in the grand scheme of life and the world, they are a major driving force within the industry- ever notice how so many movies use Oscar noms in their ads. So within the industry, they do matter, and thus they can't just b e dismissed offhand. 

[CJohn]

9 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

Well, I thought your post came off as a bit dismissive and condescending of the issue, like a bunch of people are just being whiners and complainers because they disagree with your opinion. But I didn't mean to attack you! I guess the language barrier does have an effect, and our tones just differ. So that's my mistake Cjohn, I didn't mean to attack you. And I'm sorry, really.  I'm not gonna debate the merits of Imitation Game and Selma anymore, but if you look at review and the consensus opinion of MOST, not all, but most people that saw both movies, and people liked Selma more. Again, large voting body, it's supposed to represent the consensus opinion of well-reasoned film analysis. But agree to disagree on that one.

 

Also, ask anyone who works as an actor, or in the industry, and they'll tell you that while yes, awards ARE frivolous in the grand scheme of life and the world, they are a major driving force within the industry- ever notice how so many movies use Oscar noms in their ads. So within the industry, they do matter, and thus they can't just b e dismissed offhand. 

Well, check my posts in this thread, you will see a bit more about my opinion on this. One of them came off a bit fucked up because of my english  But Claire understood what I meant and she explained it. Lets see if the changes of the Academy work or not really.

 

Tbh, Selma deserved more noms, I agree. But I also think Selma was victim of a terrible campaign by Paramount who barely pushed it for awards at all and fucked up the whole thing with a rushed release. And now we can create a whole discussion on how an Awards campaign influences more an Academy member to vote on a movie rather than the actual quality of the movie (that and the category fraud that exists every year, again another discussion entirely different). The For Your Consideration marketing should be banned, IMO. The quality of the movie or performance should be the only thing that matters, not the amount of adds saying VOTE IN ME that are in the Internet and on the streets.

[WrathOfHan]

Wait, do people really think Oscar Isaac deserved a nomination for Ex Machina?  

[Cmasterclay]

Just now, CJohn said:

Well, check my posts in this page, you will see a bit more about my opinion on this. One of them came off a bit fucked up because of my english  But Claire understood what I meant and she explained it. Lets see if the changes of the Academy work or not really.

 

Tbh, Selma deserved more noms, I agree. But I also think Selma was victim of a terrible campaign by Paramount who barely pushed it for awards at all and fucked up the whole thing with a rushed release. And now we can create a whole discussion on how an Awards campaign influences more an Academy member to vote on a movie rather than the actual quality of the movie (that and the category fraud that exists every year, again another discussion entirely different). The For Your Consideration marketing should be banned, IMO. 

Again, my mistake. Very important to note: For all the people calling this boycott stupid and everything....it worked! Like, the Academy has agreed to make the voting body more diverse (considering that the Academy was 95 percent white but movie audiences are 35 percent non-white). agreed to look over the membership rules so it isn't the same old and stuffy people hogging all the votes, and agree to play a part in encouraging diversity in the industry. Those are all common sense, logical steps I don't see how people can disagree with. So this whole "this boycott is pointless!" turned out to be......not pointless. Hopefully it pays dividends. 

And yes, award campaigning is a sham, me and Gopher were talking about this on Facebook the other day. Outside of Elba, which was from outsider Netflix, none of the POC performances had any campaign momentum behind them, especially including very arguable inclusions like Jordan or Del Toro. 

[DAR]

I just recently saw Selma and the Imitation Game and I've seen Theory Of Everything.  In the spirit of equality all are fine films, none were worthy of Best picture.

[CJohn]

1 minute ago, Cmasterclay said:

Again, my mistake. Very important to note: For all the people calling this boycott stupid and everything....it worked! Like, the Academy has agreed to make the voting body more diverse (considering that the Academy was 95 percent white but movie audiences are 35 percent non-white). agreed to look over the membership rules so it isn't the same old and stuffy people hogging all the votes, and agree to play a part in encouraging diversity in the industry. Those are all common sense, logical steps I don't see how people can disagree with. So this whole "this boycott is pointless!" turned out to be......not pointless. Hopefully it pays dividends. 

And yes, award campaigning is a sham, me and Gopher were talking about this on Facebook the other day. Outside of Elba, which was from outsider Netflix, none of the POC performances had any campaign momentum behind them, especially including very arguable inclusions like Jordan or Del Toro. 

The Academy was in need of a change for years now. I am glad it is finally happening. There have been so many stupid nominations/snubs in the last few years it was becoming quite ridiculous. I honestly prefer the Golden Globes nowadays. At least they are fun to watch and everyone gets drunk. 

 

Also, yeah, you just reminded me Del Toro isn't on the Best Supporting Actor Nominees list and that makes me mad  (haven't seen Creed, but from what I have read Jordan was fantastic in the movie). 

[4815162342]

11 minutes ago, WrathOfHan said:

Wait, do people really think Oscar Isaac deserved a nomination for Ex Machina?  

 

He outdanced Magic Mike & crew

[Hermia]

3 minutes ago, WrathOfHan said:

Wait, do people really think Oscar Isaac deserved a nomination for Ex Machina?  

 

Because Poe was the best part of TFA

By the way i thought Oscar Isaac was Spanish before i googled him, so i couldn't understand the mention of his name...

i was like Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz won Oscars not a long ago why they mention him  

[Ezen Baklattan]

1 hour ago, Rey said:

So, I'm gonna go back on my word and get back into this thread because I'm seeing bullshit.

 

It's so upsetting to me, especially as a Hispanic/Latino/Mexican, whatever your whack ass wants to call me, but it's SO upsetting when people start to be like, "Why does no one complain about Asian or Latinos? Why is it only Blacks?"

 

One, it's super fucking disrespectful because you are literally doing and perpetuating what the racists want, is for minorities or people of color to NOT stand together in solidarity.

Two, it's thanks to the effort of many Black people that they are able to get so many of these issues to even be noticed and talked about, and that's that.

 

No, no, "Oh, but why aren't any of them doing anything for other minorities?" Honestly, while I myself do my best to get the issues of other minorities to the forefront, it's not their job to do ours.

 

It's our own, and I do believe more people need to start talking about this, not just Black people because much won't be done.

 

Three, it annoys me to DEATH when I see someone say, "But 12 Years A Slave won! Lupita won! (So and so) was nominated! Gina won a Globe!" Etc. These are just a few though.

 

Like, shut the hell up. One win every now and then doesn't mean Hollywood and the industry isn't racist, etc.

 

Third, I can see why the Oscars are being targeted in this sense. Sure, you all say these awards aren't the industry, but these awards do have some effect on the industry. The whole "Oscar-bait" exists because of this. Like, this award show does have some say. You can't tell me people seeing minorities getting recognized in a high profile awards show is not a good thing.

 

Like...

 

And finally, the reason the acting awards are mentioned or singled out is because other than Best Picture, they are the most talked about, etc. Like, I would be so happy to see my fellow Mexican, Inarritu walk away with yet another if it weren't for people calling him a douche, obnoxious, pretentious. Like, we can't win, can we?

 

 

Absolutely. Sorry if I was saying something that gave a problematic interpretation in my post before. Oppression and Under-representation is not a competition, and I didn't mean to present it as such. Mainly it's a rebuttal to the argument of "Oh look, a handful of black nominees, why can't you be happy?"

 

Speaking of which, I also agree with the concept of films like 12YAS winning a bunch of crap means The Academy is getting a free pass. So much of the academy is a symptom of toxic power structures in Hollywood, and it's just really saddening to witness it all. 

[DAR]

So the Academy essentially is going to wash it's hands and say hey we asked for more diversity so going forward we're not to blame.  But what happens when there's a year where maybe there aren't enough good performance from POC.  Are they required to put someone in a slot?  Then you get accused of the giving the "token nomination."

[Cmasterclay]

Just now, DAR said:

So the Academy essentially is going to wash it's hands and say hey we asked for more diversity so going forward we're not to blame.  But what happens when there's a year where maybe there aren't enough good performance from POC.  Are they required to put someone in a slot?  Then you get accused of the giving the "token nomination."

This argument doesn't track. The whole reason that this new policy exists is to make the process better. If there's deserving performances, this policy makes it more likely they'll be nominated. That's the basic thinking behind any policy decisions: they're supposed to work in order to create a solution. And make things better. That's like saying "Well, we're going to war, but what happens if this war doesn't work, do we have to invade Canada?" Policies are supposed to lead to change. 

[Cmasterclay]

Also, I don't see what's so absurd about Isaac getting a nod. He got terrific notices everywhere. The movie got a Best Screenplay nod. He showed up at a ton of critic awards, and even won a few of them. He's a popular and well-liked rising superstar. Hell, he's probably one of the favorites to win a BOFFY for Supporting Actor on these very boards, so it's not like only a select few posters like him. Not tooo absurd. 

[WrathOfHan]

So looking at next year's potential Oscar contenders, there are very few movies that could have a POC in the acting categories.