Weekday Numbers [Aug 05 - Aug 08, 2024] | Wednesday | 9.87M DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE | 2.64M TWISTERS | 1.83M DESPICABLE ME IV

[HummingLemon496]

59 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

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At least personally, not really. Plenty MCU movies looks good to me … including recent ones like Eternals (don’t love the dark color grading but the lightning and composition overall is pretty gorgeous overall). Also really loved MOM and it’s cartoonish vibrant aesthetic that is so effortlessly cool to me. Guardians 3 is very tactile in an interesting way as well.
 

It’s just that many of these movies are produced so quickly, and a lot of the shooting is made under very uncertain circumstances, which leads to a huge part of basic elements of filmmaking being decided on post. NWH is one of the strongest cases for this: very late shooting, lots of last minute changes, an abnormal use of green screen because they didn’t had time to properly reshoot scenes, which also make the post a delayed mess. They weren’t fully sure if they could deliver the movie like 6 weeks before release. 
 

I’m happy that you have such a good time with it, but for me it’s more of a technical issue, not a petty one. The movie just looks unpolished to me in many crucial scenes. Same goes for Thor 4 etc.

 

Speaking of which, how do you think Wakanda Forever looks?

[ThomasNicole]

5 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Speaking of which, how do you think Wakanda Forever looks?

Great most of the time. Don’t really like the climax only, feels too stagey and bland. Other than that it’s absolutely stunning, with those eye popping shades of blue / green / yellow all over the movie and the set designs are a delight to watch too. Top notch color grading as well, it looks like a real movie. 
 

Strongly respect that Coogler made a decent movie out of such a tragic loss and a messy production. Rooting hard for his vampire movie.
 

 

[HummingLemon496]

1 minute ago, ThomasNicole said:

Great most of the time. Don’t really like the climax only, feels too stagey and bland. Other than that it’s absolutely stunning, with those eye popping shades of blue / green / yellow all over the movie and the set designs are a delight to watch too. Top notch color grading as well, it looks like a real movie. 
 

Strongly respect that Coogler made a decent movie out of such a tragic loss and a messy production. Rooting hard for his vampire movie.

Nice, glad you liked it 

[AnthonyJPHer]

PVOD doesn’t affect sales. It just doesn’t. I’d be surprised if it affected its run at all actually. We had this conversation repeatedly. Especially with movies like Kung Fu Panda 4, Migration, The Super Mario Bros. Movie, Puss in Boots: The Last Wish and other animated movies not being affected by PVOD. Also, if that date is correct (and it’s not even confirmed by Disney yet), that’s still almost 2 weeks away. At which point it’ll already be close to Jurassic World. 

[JohnnyGossamer]

1 hour ago, ZattMurdock said:

I strongly disagree with takes like this. Mauro Fiore is a seasoned director of photography, which at same time worked on Avatar (acruelly won the Oscar for that one) and Spider-Man: No Way Home, was brought to try and salvage Madame Web. With that said, please understand how incredibly predictable, stereotypical and and boring the type of criticism these films get when it comes from Marvel Studios. As far as I’m concerned, No Way Home is a much more visually stunning film than The Batman for example, and before The Batman I vividly remember people trashing the shit out of the photography of Rogue One and The Mandalorian, despite the fact that Greig Fraser is the DoP on all of these projects. Not even mentioning Dune 2.
 

You can’t really tell me that this looks bad and ugly. It does not.

 

These debates are odd because it's really not very cut abd dry either way. NWH, IW have incredible visual moments and shots throughout to your point. But, to Thomas' point you could make a similar "sizzle reel" with all the flat, dull, direct to TV shots in each too.

 

On the whole, people absolutely overdo the 'MCU stuff looks bad" thing though.

 

All that said, DP&W actually did look incredibly dull very consistently to keep outside of a few bursts here and there. And, I absolutely agree regarding The Batman. Just looked dreary, boring visually pretty much the whole time. The climax at the arena looked especially bad.

 

Edit - I'd like to add that the backlash overtime with NWH has always been a bit silly to me. Has its missteps but it's incredibly fun, hits the feels mostly looks incredible and is pure pulp spectacle entertainment. Alongside Spider-man '02, it's my favorite Spidey not named Spider-man 2 '04... That's including the Spider-verse movies. I'd have those two just behind the 3 I just mentioned.

Edited August 8 by JohnnyGossamer

[AniNate]

The sooner everyone accepts that PVOD releases in the middle of a theatrical run are here to stay, the better. It's pretty clear the arguments against it at this point mainly amount to a fear of change. The future of cinema is catering both to people who appreciate the theatrical experience and are willing to go out for it as well as to people who find it to be far more stress than it's worth.

[Bob Train]

1 minute ago, AniNate said:

The sooner everyone accepts that PVOD releases in the middle of a theatrical run are here to stay, the better. It's pretty clear the arguments against it at this point mainly amount to a fear of change. The future of cinema is catering both to people who appreciate the theatrical experience and are willing to go out for it as well as to people who find it to be far more stress than it's worth.

I don't see the appeal of buying/renting on PVOD when streaming services are way cheaper and you can watch whatever you want, thousands of movies rather than just one movie. 

 

You don't get a physical version of the movie like Blu-ray/DVDs offered or the communal, cinematic experience theaters provide either.

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

These debates are odd because it's really not very cut abd dry either way. NWH, IW have incredible visual moments and shots throughout to your point. But, to Thomas' point you could make a similar "sizzle reel" with all the flat, dull, direct to TV shots in each too.

 

On the whole, people absolutely overdo the 'MCU stuff looks bad" thing though.

 

All that said, DP&W actually did look incredibly dull very consistently to keep outside of a few bursts here and there. And, I absolutely agree regarding The Batman. Just looked dreary, boring visually pretty much the whole time. The climax at the arena looked especially bad.

Look, I’m not saying that Marvel Studios films are peak cinema. What I’m saying is that throughout the years is quite easy to understand that this isn’t about Marvel Studios film’s quality at all. BOT and film bro discourse is shock full with some insane takes overrating the shit out of The Batman - and I say this as someone that actually enjoys that film and wished Reeves would just play ball instead of trying to one up Nolan, it’s not happening - while trashing anything and everything Marvel Studios does at same time. It wasn’t that long ago that people on this very forum trashed the shit out of Gunn’s Guardians as well, all it took for him to become the best and most creative superhero director of all time was to become head of DC Studios and direct Superman.

 

There is an obvious, very dated and stereotypical to the point of parody type of criticism thrown at Marvel Studios films that you just don’t see with everything else, a crazy double standard that turns directors that people trashed on the best of all time and vice versa. Deadpool & Wolverine I actually love that they went with actual locations and big sets with it, but I can understand some of the criticism thrown at its cinematography. NWH? Nope, and it’s not unusual to see an incredible overhype over a lot of films here while others are unreasonably trashed with arguments that when you look at it, it’s really MCU equals bad.

[wattage]

 

55 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Great most of the time. Don’t really like the climax only, feels too stagey and bland. Other than that it’s absolutely stunning, with those eye popping shades of blue / green / yellow all over the movie and the set designs are a delight to watch too. Top notch color grading as well, it looks like a real movie. 
 

Strongly respect that Coogler made a decent movie out of such a tragic loss and a messy production. Rooting hard for his vampire movie.
 

 

I think the last time I noted that the color grading for an MCU movie was really really good was this film. They've been more spotty recently but theyre doing their best with these production schedules. I think with them slowing down production it'll be better overall down the line.

 

Guardians is probably my favorite of the films recently from a story and character perspective, even if visually it wasn't all that to me once we got to the fake Earth (forgot what it's called) and it just kind of made it more apparent how flat everything was. It definitely had its purpose though I get what they were going for, just wasn't for me. Really liked the sets before that too, the spongey place was visually interesting to me as a set. 

Edited August 8 by wattage

[AniNate]

If you're looking for a new release to treat your family but don't want to go through the ordeal of picking a showtime, reserving seats, and trying to get everyone in the car to make that showtime it can absolutely be worth it compared to theaters. 

 

It's not an either/or thing vs streamers, more than half of the opening weekend inside out audience owned D+ according to postrak. Maybe it doesn't make financial sense for everyone to buy PVOD compared to waiting until November for D+ but clearly there is a certain niche where it does.

 

 

Edited August 8 by AniNate

[TMP]

9 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Look, I’m not saying that Marvel Studios films are peak cinema. What I’m saying is that throughout the years is quite easy to understand that this isn’t about Marvel Studios film’s quality at all. BOT and film bro discourse is shock full with some insane takes overrating the shit out of The Batman - and I say this as someone that actually enjoys that film and wished Reeves would just play ball instead of trying to one up Nolan, it’s not happening - while trashing anything and everything Marvel Studios does at same time. It wasn’t that long ago that people on this very forum trashed the shit out of Gunn’s Guardians as well, all it took for him to become the best and most creative superhero director of all time was to become head of DC Studios and direct Superman.

 

There is an obvious, very dated and stereotypical to the point of parody type of criticism thrown at Marvel Studios films that you just don’t see with everything else, a crazy double standard that turns directors that people trashed on the best of all time and vice versa. Deadpool & Wolverine I actually love that they went with actual locations and big sets with it, but I can understand some of the criticism thrown at its cinematography. NWH? Nope, and it’s not unusual to see an incredible overhype over a lot of films here while others are unreasonably trashed with arguments that when you look at it, it’s really MCU equals bad.

My god dude, if you hate this place so bad then just leave and spare us the sermons

[ZattMurdock]

31 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

Edit - I'd like to add that the backlash overtime with NWH has always been a bit silly to me. Has its missteps but it's incredibly fun, hits the feels mostly looks incredible and is pure pulp spectacle entertainment. Alongside Spider-man '02, it's my favorite Spidey not named Spider-man 2 '04... That's including the Spider-verse movies. I'd have those two just behind the 3 I just mentioned.

To add to your edit, that’s precisely why I love NWH so much, it’s the culmination of 20 years of Spider-Man films and it’s done with so much heart and I truly don’t think that film gets enough flowers for how much masterfully written that story is.

 

It shouldn’t work.

 

It had no business of working as hard as it did, and in that sense it is a lot like Endgame, Infinity War and the Spider-Verse films. All the characters, from Peter 1 to supporting characters to all the villains have a complete and satisfying arc. It gives closure, coda and redemption to the other two Spider-Men, it works as a three films trilogy that tells the origin of Spider-Man and as a lifelong comic book reader, I actually want to be surprised and have a Peter Parker that is faithful to the character’s essence but not slavish and beholden to the comic book storyline. It’s not one of the most beloved superhero films - when you look at any given metric, box office included, or just look at the average rating list on RT or any of the mainstream MCU ranking videos out there - and revisionist history crap has been going for far too long when it comes to the MCU.

Edited August 8 by ZattMurdock

[wattage]

1 minute ago, AniNate said:

If you're looking for a new release to treat your family but don't want to go through the ordeal of picking a showtime, reserving seats, and trying to get everyone in the car to make that showtime it can absolutely be worth it compared to theaters. 

 

It's not an either/or things vs streamers, more than half of the opening weekend inside out audience owned D+ according to postrak. Maybe it doesn't make financial sense for everyone to buy PVOD compared to waiting until November for D+ but clearly there is a certain niche where it does.

There's definitely a niche. I think someone said it some days ago but the introduction of the shorter PVOD window I think just made it so we lost the people who would've been very very reluctant to go to movies for various reasons but might have felt compelled if a movie wasnt going to be available for 6 months or more or something. 

 

So the reason it doesn't cause a drop off is because whatever damage there was to be done, it's been done for years. The second that short PVOD window was introduced those people were never coming back. And the people who want to go to the theater arent going to stop going because an expensive rental is available. They'll just keep going in person until it hits streaming. 

[Dale Cooper]

37 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

Edit - I'd like to add that the backlash overtime with NWH has always been a bit silly to me. Has its missteps but it's incredibly fun, hits the feels mostly looks incredible and is pure pulp spectacle entertainment. Alongside Spider-man '02, it's my favorite Spidey not named Spider-man 2 '04... That's including the Spider-verse movies. I'd have those two just behind the 3 I just mentioned.

I'd like to believe the backlash for No Way Home has come from the fact that its success depends entirely on things not really related to MCU. When you wash off the nostalgia you aren't left with much of a movie - the motivation for anything to happen at all in the film is weak and the way the tie it together in the end is, well, not good. It just isn't a very good film all things considered.

 

I think the new Deadpool movie will age just the same. Again its success is built upon cameos from other films and humor that is very 2024.

Edited August 8 by Dale Cooper

[AniNate]

5 minutes ago, wattage said:

There's definitely a niche. I think someone said it some days ago but the introduction of the shorter PVOD window I think just made it so we lost the people who would've been very very reluctant to go to movies for various reasons but might have felt compelled if a movie wasnt going to be available for 6 months or more or something. 

 

Yeah I don't deny that it's probably hurt the theatrical audience in general, but people need to shift the mindset beyond just the "theaters losing customers" perspective to realize it's better for everyone that people have options. You don't really want angry stressed out families in your movie theater audience or on the roads to get there.

[wattage]

9 minutes ago, AniNate said:

 

Yeah I don't deny that it's probably hurt the theatrical audience in general, but people need to shift the mindset beyond just the "theaters losing customers" perspective to realize it's better for everyone that people have options. You don't really want angry stressed out families in your movie theater audience or on the roads to get there.

I completely agree. The accessibility is really important, I know that when my health was extremely bad due to COVID I appreciated being able to see new movies, which I love to do, relatively soon. Shutting people out of being able to see films for a really long time to get some extra box office money to me isn't right. We just needed to make sure there was a balance between that accessibility and still supporting theaters and not undercutting the business and I think the PVOD windows we have, but still not dropping it on streaming super early was the right balance they found. Some audience was lost but that's just the way it is, it's okay. The hit was taken and we move forward. Etc etc. 

Edited August 8 by wattage

[JohnnyGossamer]

1 hour ago, Dale Cooper said:

I'd like to believe the backlash for No Way Home has come from the fact that its success depends entirely on things not really related to MCU. When you wash off the nostalgia you aren't left with much of a movie - the motivation for anything to happen at all in the film is weak and the way the tie it together in the end is, well, not good. It just isn't a very good film all things considered.

 

I think the new Deadpool movie will age just the same. Again its success is built upon cameos from other films and humor that is very 2024.

Well, there are actually stakes in NWH for me at least. May dies. It's heavy. Thematically it's not profound but has beats at least unlike DP&W. Better villain too.

 

DP&W works as MCU by way of a mid level Mel Brooks film for better and for worse.

 

To be fair to NWH, it builds off the internal MCU Spidey series itself and 5 Spidey live action films that had enormous admissions - even ASM2 did 710M WW a decade+ ago. DP&W is considerably more niche with a lot of what it included in its multiverse setting. Still works but it's more demanding than NWH to a casual viewer.

 

I actually think NWH would've been even bigger if released later because there were waves of Covid still keeping a set of folks away from theaters too. It didn't even have China I think, right?

 

A lot of great blockbusters aren't great films per say but can still be great blockbusters. To me, NWH is a massive pulp crowd pleaser.

 

Is AtSV a great film from stroy abd structure standpoint l? From an sensory overload standpoint its great. Unreal incredible actually. But, from a narrative standpoint outside of the Gwen stuff, it's pretty much an excuse to getting everyone from ItSV back to spend the last 30 minutes not concluding the film but setting up the next film. Even in MI:DR at least Ethan Hunt has the MacGuffin thing the whole movie is about in his possession at the end. AtSV spends the last 30 minutes just tacking on more and more unresolved threads.

Edited August 8 by JohnnyGossamer

[Dale Cooper]

6 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

Well, there are actually stakes in NWH for me at least. May dies. It's heavy. Thematically it's not profound but has beats at least unlike DP&W. DP&W works at MCU by way of a mid level Mel Brooks film for better and for worse.

 

I actually think it would've been even bigger if released later because there were waves of Covid still keeping a set of folks away from theaters too.

 

A lot of great blockbusters are great films per say but can be great blockbusters. To me, NWH is a massive pulp crowd pleaser.

I mean, it defenitely was a huge crowdpleaser. But I'm also not surprised it's not talked about as fondly at this point because of what I wrote. It has some beats, sure, it's not a bad film, but it's just so gimmicky that I'd have been suprised if it didn't face a bit of a backlash.

 

As for whether it would have been even bigger - it might have been, it's definitely arguable. But you could also argue that it benefitted from being the first major tentpole for its audience post COVID.

[JohnnyGossamer]

18 minutes ago, Dale Cooper said:

I mean, it defenitely was a huge crowdpleaser. But I'm also not surprised it's not talked about as fondly at this point because of what I wrote. It has some beats, sure, it's not a bad film, but it's just so gimmicky that I'd have been suprised if it didn't face a bit of a backlash.

 

As for whether it would have been even bigger - it might have been, it's definitely arguable. But you could also argue that it benefitted from being the first major tentpole for its audience post COVID.

I would not say post Covid. A lot more people were taking Covid extremely seriously still then and just about all theaters mandated masking which also pushed some movie goers away. Wasn't there a pretty massive wave right when it released? I'd argue The Batman and especially Strange 2 were the first true post Covid mega blockbuster releases.

 

That's actually to NWH's benefit and the counter to my argument. It literally had zero competition forever so it's late legs were unreal. The Batman had very little competition too for the same reason but by then Covid fear had faded substantially yet even still Pixar wasn't even releasing movies like Turning Red in theaters the spring after NWH and when TB was released. 

 

All that said, you have your views and presented them well. Good discussion. 

Edited August 8 by JohnnyGossamer

[ZattMurdock]

24 minutes ago, Dale Cooper said:

I mean, it defenitely was a huge crowdpleaser. But I'm also not surprised it's not talked about as fondly at this point because of what I wrote. It has some beats, sure, it's not a bad film, but it's just so gimmicky that I'd have been suprised if it didn't face a bit of a backlash.

 

As for whether it would have been even bigger - it might have been, it's definitely arguable. But you could also argue that it benefitted from being the first major tentpole for its audience post COVID.

It is talked fondly by the vast majority of people. The problem is when it comes to the MCU, thisalways has been a thing, it always will. The film has an insanely high critic and audience score on RT and it’s widely regarded among the general audience as the best Spider-Man film.

 

And yes, it is a crowd-pleaser like Deadpool & Wolverine, but it kinda goes without saying that the bar for Deadpool films is lower than Spider-Man ones. Deadpool & Wolverine is the most Deadpool film that was ever released, and there is a very, very strong argument for the most Wolverine film ever released as well. If you mean BOT, Reddit and Twitter, it’s been always plagued by franchise wars.

Years ago, for a film to be deemed critically and public successful all you needed was to point out the critic and audience RT scores. These days, here and everywhere, it’s always based on feels when it comes to the MCU. It’s not a good metric to have, and it only leads to useless debates. What I’m saying is of course that Deadpool & Wolverine will be a target of revisionist history when it comes to how much people enjoy the film. It isn’t because it’s similar to Spider-Man: No Way Home and feeds from Marvel’s history beyond the MCU, it’s because this has been the case with MCU films since literally Iron Man back in 2008.

Edited August 8 by ZattMurdock