BK007 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I literally don't see that at all. How the fuck can it lose "charm and prestige" after one bad film against all those masterpieces that preceded it? lab's getting testy. I don't remember any swear words being used back on BOM. I know you like Cars 2, but for me, and for many it would seem, it went completely against what their previous films stood for. I saw in Cars 2, effects over story, profits over integrity- they didn't just become Dreamworks they were worse than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thing I don't understand is, why don't people wait until Brave is released and than comment on it be below par, crap, or whatever adjective to describe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letsuseournoggin Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 But you are assumming that Brave is crap, from what I have seen it looks very good so far. No I was referring to Cars 2 which I did not like. I was answering Lab's angry question about how that one film has taken something away from Pixar. In my personal opinion, it has to a small extent. Regarding Brave though, from what I've seen it, it just doesn't seem to have the same magic that their other classics have. As I said earlier, it seems to be heading for a solid quality film, but not on the level of their masterpieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letsuseournoggin Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thing I don't understand is, why don't people wait until Brave is released and than comment on it be below par, crap, or whatever adjective to describe it. But that's what a forum is for though.. to give opinions and not all of them have to be positive towards a film. For instance, I love what I'm seeing from TDKR, The Avengers, The Hunger Games, but I'm not crazy about what I've seen from Brave, Prometheus, etc. And those are all movies I am going to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Did you see the Japanese trailer? It is much better than the American trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Thing I don't understand is, why don't people wait until Brave is released and than comment on it be below par, crap, or whatever adjective to describe it. The reality is Pixar doesn't have that benefit of the doubt anymore. Cars 2 (and to some extent, John Carter) exposed them as fallible and people are judging their trailers and advertising like any other film now. They also didn't get it with JC even though Stanton had minimum involvement with Cars 2. Edited March 15, 2012 by tribefan695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT? Aside from the Cars films (WHICH ARE FOR 5-YEAR OLDS), they've made nothing but genuinely great films for almost 20 years. Their track record is almost impeccable. I'm utterly dumbfounded that people think Pixar has "lost" it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem2x3 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The reality is Pixar doesn't have that benefit of the doubt anymore. Cars 2 (and to some extent, John Carter) exposed them as fallible and people are judging their trailers and advertising like any other film now. They also didn't get it with JC even though Stanton had minimum involvement with Cars 2. I don't agree with that at all. Brave looks terrible compared to past Pixar efforts. Plain and simple. Will it be terrible? I would be shocked. They're probably trying to fit a square peg through a round whole with its marketing. What bothers me about these discussions is how little they pay attention to the studio itself. Pixar's had some definite problems. Newt got canceled. Then they moved Cars 2 up into its place (potentially rushed it?). Plus, they changed directors during the middle of making the film. They changed directors on Brave mid-film too! Bird, gone. Stanton, gone. Lewis--left (after Cars 2, but there had to be problems beforehand). My hope, is that these growing pains will be behind us after Brave (or better yet, Brave having not been rushed up into 2012 will be better off as a result). Their next slate looks much better (Mind Movie and Dinosaurs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem2x3 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT? Aside from the Cars films (WHICH ARE FOR 5-YEAR OLDS), they've made nothing but genuinely great films for almost 20 years. Their track record is almost impeccable. I'm utterly dumbfounded that people think Pixar has "lost" it. It seems to be a talking point for people who hated Cars 2 and are worried about Brave's lackluster image so far. I believe it's called rationalization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem2x3 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 and lol @ blaming Cars 2 for John Carter's shortcomings. JC failed all of its own accord, which is sad for Stanton. Blaming Cars 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 What about it looks terrible? What about it looks lackluster? The same thing was said about Ratatouille months before its release. I still remember the horrified reaction to its disappointing opening weekend. It went on to have great legs, win the Oscar, and be regarded as one of Pixar's best. I'm not saying Brave will follow that same route, but you guys are showing no faith for no reason. You didn't like Cars 2? Guess what? Just like the first one, it was aimed at little kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK007 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm not making any comments about Brave but you have to see the difference between Cars and Cars 2. There was a message behind the first. The second there wasn't. There's no kids argument to be made here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) I acknowledge they made a poor film, but I've yet to understand why that erases years of goodwill. They've been the most consistent studio and filmmakers for years in terms of quality. They greatly indulged on Cars 2; they made the movie so they could make billions more from merchandise. Edited March 15, 2012 by RichWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letsuseournoggin Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) What about it looks terrible? What about it looks lackluster? The same thing was said about Ratatouille months before its release. I still remember the horrified reaction to its disappointing opening weekend. It went on to have great legs, win the Oscar, and be regarded as one of Pixar's best. I'm not saying Brave will follow that same route, but you guys are showing no faith for no reason. You didn't like Cars 2? Guess what? Just like the first one, it was aimed at little kids. Why so angry? The fact of the matter is that, any way you spin it, Pixar delivered a subpar film quality wise with Cars 2. Aimed at kids or not, it was a letdown and it came up short. And that's just not expected from Pixar. Couple that with their underwhelming marketing on Brave (yes I understand Pixar's track record with marketing) and I feel like we are in for a less than amazing film that won't stack up alongside their masterpieces. Even though a lot of Pixar marketing efforts seem to underwhelm, I would argue that most of their other projects had this magic quality to them that allowed me to rest assure that they were going to deliver on the goods. With Brave I'm just not feeling that. At the end of the day, this is all just my own personal opinion and is not based on facts and just my perceptions. When the film opens and I'm proven wrong, I'll be more than glad because that's what I'm really hoping for. I love Pixar. Edited March 15, 2012 by Letsuseournoggin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) What bothers me about these discussions is how little they pay attention to the studio itself. Pixar's had some definite problems. Newt got canceled. Then they moved Cars 2 up into its place (potentially rushed it?). Plus, they changed directors during the middle of making the film. They changed directors on Brave mid-film too! Bird, gone. Stanton, gone. Lewis--left (after Cars 2, but there had to be problems beforehand). Stanton and Bird are not gone. And Brave is not the first time they've switched directors mid-film (Brannon->Lasseter on Toy Story 2 and Pinkava->Bird on Ratatouille). Chapman is also still employed with Pixar and willfully associating herself with the film. and lol @ blaming Cars 2 for John Carter's shortcomings. JC failed all of its own accord, which is sad for Stanton. Blaming Cars 2? My point was that if it weren't for Cars 2 I think more people would've given the movie the benefit of the doubt before its release, at least on this forum. The word "Pixar" had lost its association with perfection so the thought that Stanton could screw up JC was a little easier to fathom. Edited March 15, 2012 by tribefan695 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniNate Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 There was a message behind the first. The second there wasn't. There's no kids argument to be made here. Oh, there was a message. It was just a really stupid one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Oh, I'm not angry. It's just extremely odd that people have lost faith in Pixar because of one movie after making ten incredible ones. It would be like saying, "I don't believe in Spielberg as much after 1941!" Then he makes Raiders and E.T. He makes Always and Hook and you can't trust him again. Then he makes Jurassic and Schindler's List. Every filmmaker is allowed one miss. We'll see. I think a part of it is resistance to a female lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letsuseournoggin Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Oh, I'm not angry. It's just extremely odd that people have lost faith in Pixar because of one movie after making ten incredible ones. It would be like saying, "I don't believe in Spielberg as much after 1941!" Then he makes Raiders and E.T. He makes Always and Hook and you can't trust him again. Then he makes Jurassic and Schindler's List. Every filmmaker is allowed one miss. We'll see. I think a part of it is resistance to a female lead. Sorry. I re-read your post and you weren't angry at all. Hmmmm.. maybe I was thinking of lab's post earlier. But yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from. It's not fair to throw Pixar under the bus because of a miss. No one is perfect and as you pointed out, they have one of, if not the best track record in the business. But, Brave just seems to be on course for a How to Train Your Dragon quality film, which is great and all, but not to the level of a Pixar classic, IMO. Again, I want to be wrong and would love for this to be added to my list of favorite CGI Animation films alongside WALL E, Ratatouille, Monsters Inc and Incredibles, but even when I re-read that it seems laughable for some odd reason. Maybe you're on to something.. it might be the female lead thing. Edited March 15, 2012 by Letsuseournoggin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 My point was that if it weren't for Cars 2 I think more people would've given the movie the benefit of the doubt before its release, at least on this forum. The word "Pixar" had lost its association with perfection so the thought that Stanton could screw up JC was a little easier to fathom. The main reason JC had a lousy opening was because of bad marketing which apparently Stanton had a big hand in. I just can't blame Cars 2 for failure of JC. Only way I buy that Pixar's name is sullied is if Brave opens below Ratatouille. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichWS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 But yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from. It's not fair to throw Pixar under the bus because of a miss. No one is perfect and as you pointed out, they have one of, if not the best track record in the business. But, Brave just seems to be on course for a How to Train Your Dragon quality film, which is great and all, but not to the level of a Pixar classic, IMO. Somehow, I've still yet to see Dragon but I've always heard nothing but great things. It scored a 98% on RT and had terrific legs to reach $220M. If it was released in the summer, it probably would have made more. I don't think that would be a bad fate for Brave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
