Macleod

There is a court for fascists (even play ones) and insurrectionists. We will see your beloved savior in it, eventually, on this earth, or in the next.

Like I keep reminding people -- the trades all mentioned Matrix 4 in reports of the year-long release plan -- but it's nowhere to be seen on HBOMax's 2021 "slate" on their page, and of course the film was originally slated for 2022...I think it will move back there.

It's not just about what he can "demand" -- though agents can help with that -- it's about contract stipulations and indeed "precedent" -- what Warners is doing here vs. the rest of the industry right now.

I will never watch SS again, but I watched BOP/Harley Quinn for the first time last weekend, the night after WW84. I will probably never watch BOP again, either, but hot take: Birds of Prey is *also* a better-made, more creative movie than WW84! Plus Margot Robbie can act the pants off Gadot anyday.

Jenkins clearly wanted to make a "Superman II" here -- More honesty about the hero's love life, vulnerability exposed with the loss of powers due to a choice by the hero to devote themselves entirely to their love interest, new threats that match and nearly exceed the hero's abilities. But yes, it unfortunately ends up as more of a Superman III -- morally dubious character choices, villains with no real heft that are riffs on other greater villains, the hero corrupting their own personal history living in humanity (returning to Smallville, Lana while "evil") through manipulated choices of the villain, and awful, already dated "comedy" based in its period that falls flat. The charm of Reeve and Kidder in Donner's Superman and Lester's Superman II was equally wonderful, but ultimately worked because of great stories. Despite having the same two leads, Superman III failed because it lacked a 100% meaningful concept and story. Superman IV...is another matter, but I almost give more credit to IV than III, because at least Reeve was attempting to do something interesting with that one...and it got corrupted during production/post. What the hell happened here?? WW84 is so disappointing. This movie wasn't plagued by a change in directors or behind the scenes turmoil, as far as we know. And yet it feels like it was. At its core are some rather brilliant ideas about ideology, the fragileness of truth, the ideas of wishmaking and wish fulfillment in superhero narratives, how easily we would annihilate ourselves if we were truly given everything we want -- but as with everything, it's not the kind of story they are trying to tell here -- it's how they tell it. The movie is, astoundingly, for a film of its budget and resources, plagued by simple production and aesthetic issues that should have been caught -- such as Diana "whispering" her final monologue to Max from across the room as epic wind is blowing and Max is screaming out. How could he hear her? Why would he even listen? How can she be "seen" by everyone else if the cameras are destroyed? How did she gain the ability to "fly" yet still need the armour/still not have all of her powers? The audience also could have really used a flashback/appearance of the actual "god" that Diana refers to as the origin-point of the stone -- it would give the audience some kind of relatability similar to the wonderful "bedtime story" told by Hippolyta in the first movie. This is FILM, here -- images should at least equally tell the story, not just some quick-exposition. The White House conflict between Diana and Barbara is far more interesting than the "same-old" CG fight scene (that lasts just four minutes) at the end. But it's all muddled in both message and execution. So many other questions and issues here; all mentioned already in this forum -- I pretty much agree with the issues with bringing Steve's character back -- why not just "whiff" him into existence again? Who "decides" what body he was placed in? Why did that guy not even get a character name??? ...Never thought this movie would continue to end 2020 on a sour note. What a drag. This film should have been called: "The Mysterious Adventures of Max Lord, featuring Wonder Woman." What I did absolutely love, with no apologies, are the opening scene, the mall scene, Diana flying, and Zimmer's complete score -- beautiful stuff. But both of those first two scenes could have been "bonus" scenes or indeed released sometime before the film's release as "prologues" or mini-adventures to tide the audience over, losing little of consequence from being excised from the main picture. Was the nighttime footage of Diana actually lassoing lightning bolts, seen in the trailers, deleted? I don't think it's in the film, right? When she begins to fly in the clouds, it's daylight... I agree that they should let Steve go for the third film. They tried recapturing the magic, and while the chemistry is great, the problems with what and how they accomplished it created more controversy and disappointment. Diana needs to "move on" in the third film.

The buzz in the industry was already hinting that yet-another-Bond-move past April was going to happen... ...But at this point...I think people just want to see it!

Understood. I would love to see another "great" Superman movie, too... I just don't think it can be done in this current era/reality, so I understand Warners' perspective. Maybe J.J. will actually Trek-it-out again... 😉

This creates bat-brain-freezes for me, too. Will Keaton's Batsy be the new Earth 1 "reality"? Because if Flash actually "brings" him over...will he be bringing through the "glowy thing" portal all of Keaton's Batcave and kit, as well? 😂 As long as it makes just a little more sense than Flash's dream appearance in BvS...I'm good. 🤣 ("AM I TOO SOON??")

They have the time and the money, they're just choosing not to. I love how angry people get about this. It's all business. Batsy is their golden cash cow, obviously. Supes still remains "problematic" and a "risky investment" with Cavill and for the big screen (due in no small part to where Snyder and the studio took him in MoS and post-sequel-debacles).

Yeah, and I'm saying it should all be treated with more significance!

Proof how flimsy MCU narrative is... I forgot they were dead? 😂 Not like it means anything, anymore...

They will obviously make jokes about all of this in the movie, itself. No better way to confront the issue. Thor will be like... "Thor-ina?" (laughs) "Nah..." "Princess Jane? Nah..." "Dame Foster?" Jane be like: "How about THE MIGHTY THOR?" Cue eye-rolling from the Warriors Three and Valkyrie...

Yeah, I'll believe LW5 when I see it. Donner has wanted to do it for years, but I don't think it's going to happen. Gibson would be fine, though -- FATMAN debuted very well on VOD and even in some theatres. He's finding a comeback niche of mid-budget, low-risk productions, as well as attempting to re-establish his critically-acclaimed directing career. If he did LW5 at all, I'm convinced Mel would be ghost-directing this with Donner...

WarnerMedia has become The Joker. 😂 "Do I really look like a guy with a plan?" "I'm a dog chasing cars...I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! I just...DO...things." "Disney has plans. Universal has plans. Amazon has plans. They're schemers trying to control their little worlds..."

Yep. As I keep saying (though I've been wrong before) -- Anything can happen (look at the bizarre "loose sequel" to Ghost Rider w/Nic Cage) -- but the reality is that WB made their bed when they decided to do BvS. My gut feeling is that it'll be a long while before another solo Superman film happens -- years -- and the next time a feature happens, it will be a reboot, and it won't be with Cavill. Simply too much baggage there. In the meantime, he may appear in a few other things until they feel like they've exhausted that well completely.

I wonder where I fall in the statistics of all of this...whenever they decide to report actual numbers. -- I subscribed to HBOMax this past weekend...but haven't gotten around to watching WW84, yet. 😂 (Probably tonight.) (I got distracted catching up with Wonder Woman '75 and Lynda Carter... 😂 )

I'm far from a fan of Suicide Squad, but let's be objective, here: I don't think Warners would have invested in this project unless they felt the combination of James Gunn and a "new take" with the "familiars" would not only equal but boost the overall global box office potential of that...ugh...franchise? I feel like there's already a bit of downplaying going on in the forums regarding diminished potentials for what are now HBOMax simultaneous debuts. While it's clear that Warners didn't have an amazing 2021 slate (they've basically hinted at that, themselves), they also clearly did not intend for all of these productions to just "scrape by." They wouldn't have invested in a Suicide Squad "sequel" if the first hadn't done the box office it did, because the critical/audience reception was indeed pretty turgid. Likewise, they obviously hoped during the last few years that the Godzilla/Kong franchise would become a much bigger thing than it has... But all of these things are relative these days... as these productions, like Godzilla/Kong and many others, are so often funded by a combination of independent hedge-fund investors who have little stake in corporate politics and only want to make a profit. So I can see why Legendary is fuming at the HBOMax decision, along with numerous other investors/talent. Box Office potential is essential for these kinds of productions; it always matters. And yet...this weekend has proved that people...somewhere...are still going to the movies for WW84, in the middle of a pandemic! Warners knew that WW84 was pretty much a "sure thing" at the box office, no matter what kind of overall reception it got -- and the current situation we're in -- where the film is basically a 'write-off' is one of the numerous reasons they're giving an immediate green light to WW3.

Very good, but money was not good enough to immediately warrant a sequel, that's what was interesting. It was not a sure thing until Warners saw home video receipts.

What has happened to Warners during the last few years -- most of this can be chalked up to AT&T's takeover. But I think it was changing a bit before that, too. They are definitely giving the entire town of Hollywood the impression that they no longer care about making quality movies anymore...and now, do not care about what they do with them once they're finished. It's tremendously sad to see this once-great studio implode so badly. Especially after seeing 20th Century FOX effectively disappear under Disney, as well.

I would say that these are two farther-ahead, and yes, higher-confidence projects. We're talking most of the already-completed projects here that were done and originally slated for 2020 or 2021. It's telling that Matrix 4 doesn't appear on the HBOMax slate on their page, despite being mentioned in all the initial announcements.

Can the Mods ditch the "Derrickson Drops Out" in the thread title? It's giving me heart jolts every time my eyes go over it and think I'm reading "Raimi Drops Out." 😂

This was already essentially confirmed in one of the many trade pieces about this debacle. It was attributed to either Sarnoff or another high-ranking Warners exec. whose opinion was apparently that Warners knew that they "didn't have a strong 2021 slate."

Jenkins and Gadot (and possibly Johns...ew) have been working on the story for some time now, so I'd imagine they're way ahead and will be ready to shoot within a year. I'd bet that Warners is paying them anything they want to try to guarantee that they do this before the Star Wars or Cleopatra film. But we'll see... This ain't happening. They will shift direction, for sure, based on the overall response to this one -- but I'm pretty sure Jenkins will not be pivoting back to anything like BvS tone. And let's not forget that Snyder has been pretty open about supporting Jenkins and WW84 in particular -- he seems happy to let her do her own thing.

Even Batman would say to you "You've got a dark side, don't you?" Sheesh.

Not yet...