Alien: Covenant | 5/19/2017 | Who needs mystery?

[Empire]

prometheus vs im3 vs mos

discuss.

 

I like Prometheus and MOS. Would say I like Prometheus more though. Oh, and I am not a fan of IM3 at all. 

[kitik]

There are loose connective strands in dealing with some spin-off of the alien creature, but the only real implication for Alien is that the company (Weyland Yutani) probably knows that some form of alien life exists in the universe pre-Alien. 

 

That was covered in the AvP movies, wasn't it?

[dashrendar44]

Not for me. That's exactly what the film currently posits. But it may change with future films so keep that pitchfork sharp!

 

But as of yet there are no explicit narrative or creature connections that impact the alien series on any meaningful level.  Though it does offer a neat parallel to the Alien films in that the Engineers do with the Alien exactly what the company has sought to for decades (turn it into a bio-weapon). And despite their supreme intelligence, their own experiment still manages to bite them in the arse (just as it would have done the company). 

 

There are loose connective strands in dealing with some spin-off of the alien creature, but the only real implication for Alien is that the company (Weyland Yutani) probably knows that some form of alien life exists in the universe pre-Alien. 

 

The problem is that Jon Spaiths script clearly stated that what we saw was the inception of the Alien we came to know, there were no doubt about it. Scott botched it thanks to Lindelof's input but kept most of its key elements about the alien genesis process used by the engineers to terraform so that's why it's confusing and you keep believing it got nothing to do with Alien except it was intended to and many elements remain that concur to that conclusion. Hence the clusterfuck we're discussing.

Edited June 3, 2014 by dashrendar44

[RichWS]

That was covered in the AvP movies, wasn't it?

 

I'm writing a think piece: Why We Should Never Discuss The AvP Movies.

[darkelf]

Unlike the other two, IM3 was at least fun

[Ozymandias]

That was covered in the AvP movies, wasn't it?

 

AVP is not canon to the Alien franchise, the Predator franchise, or Prometheus.  Fox made it to cash in on 2 dead franchises.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Ozymandias

[Gazz]

This is true, however, there needed to be some sort of resolution.  The point of the movie was to ask questions.  Not only did they not ask these questions, more were raised and unanswered.

 

Cinematic blue balls to the fullest.

 

This is true. I would have gladly sacrificed many of those questions for something in the way of a resolution. Aliens answers more questions than Prometheus, but it works because Cameron uses those answers (primarily, what laid the eggs?) to provide the film with a thematic significance when moving towards the conclusion. The Alien Queen offers the greatest challenge for Ripley, as they do battle for motherhood over Newt. It offers a moment of redemption for missing out on her own daughters life. Sure having such obvious character beats is a little removed from Alien's attempts at capturing simple survival, but in Aliens it closes Ripley's arc out beautifully. 

 

All Prometheus had to do was similarly weave those answers into the narrative in a meaningful way. Instead it just gets ask-happy and stops.  

Edited June 3, 2014 by Gazz

[RichWS]

AVP is not canon to the Alien franchise or Prometheus.  Fox made it to cash in on 2 dead franchises.

 

Aliens coming out of the pregnant lady was one of the only times I can remember feeling both sick and angry at a movie. I've never been a prude against violence but that crossed some kind of mental line with me. It was the shit centerpiece in a piece of shit movie.

[Ozymandias]

Aliens coming out of the pregnant lady was one of the only times I can remember feeling both sick and angry at a movie. I've never been a prude against violence but that crossed some kind of mental line with me. It was the shit centerpiece in a piece of shit movie.

 

I haven't seen AVP-R in ages, but that scene and the one where the girlfriend gets impaled on the wall out of nowhere by the giant Predator ninja star thingy are the only 2 scenes I remember well.

[Gazz]

The problem is that Jon Spaiths script clearly stated that what we saw was the inception of the Alien we came to know, there were no doubt about it. Scott botched it thanks to Lindelof's input but kept most of its key elements about the alien genesis process used by the engineers to terraform so that's why it's confusing and you keep believing it got nothing to do with Alien except it was intended to and many elements remain that concur to that conclusion. Hence the clusterfuck we're discussing.

 

We're talking about what ifs now that have little bearing on the final film. That they removed all the references to Alien in Spaiht's draft should show you their intention in that regard. But even that script doesn't provide an explicit answer that the alien's are jockey made (though it's certainly more heavily implied). 

 

As for the two scripts, well Spaihts' is better written and features a remarkably better opening act (none of that 'belief' shit but "real" scientific reasoning instead) but it soon devolves into pulpy scenes of ineffective violence. And if you thought Prometheus devalued the alien creature, well that script was ten times worse. For example David is described as toying with a facehugger as if it's a harmless kitten while he monologues to Shaw like a third-rate Bond villain. And there are so many versions of the alien creature, some of which seem laughable. It's a mess. But it's a better written mess. 

 

Lindelof's draft excises alot of the chaff while introducing some of his own questionable ideas. He improves David a remarkable amount but unfortunately neglect Shaw as a result. On a story level he gets many of the broad strokes right but he writes like a thirteen-year-old hopped up on sherbert. Every other sentence is capitalised as if he's excitedly shouting from the page.  His script is ultimately marginally better in my opinion, but after reading both I couldn't help but feel the best of the two scripts is still somewhere smack bang in the middle. A shame.

[dashrendar44]

Don't get me wrong both drafts were half-assed and bad ideas in the first place that really shouldn't have anything to do with the Alien creature at all.

Edited June 3, 2014 by dashrendar44

[The Stingray]

Questions are usually far more interesting than answers. That's just the way of our human curiosity.

 

Imo, Prometheus presented far too many questions and "mysteries", and I always got the feeling that the filmmakers themselves weren't sure what it all meant. In the original Alien you only had a few mysteries (the Jockey, the Derelict and that the Company had a pre-existing knowledge of the Alien creature), but they were kept in the background, not taking anything away from the focus of the movie, which was the characters' struggle for survival on board the Nostromo. I think this is far more effective, and it creates mysteries that linger in the mind long afterwards, rather than utilizing Lindelof's Lost approach of bombarding the story with a new so-called mystery every 15 minutes.

[Neo]

Prometheus 2: Could Peter Weyland Return?

[Neo]

Guy Pearce Wants To Return For PROMETHEUS 2

[CJohn]

Ridley Scott's UNTITLED PROJECT is now called, THE MARTIAN. It drops Nov. 25, 2015 instead of Mar. 4, 2016.

[Donald]

I luv the martian book....its sooo funny.

[Clef Ment]

Ridley Scott's UNTITLED PROJECT is now called, THE MARTIAN. It drops Nov. 25, 2015 instead of Mar. 4, 2016.

 

Fuck ...

 

I want a Prometheus 2.

[John Marston]

wait I thought this was greenlit, I guess not?

[Neo]

Ridley Scott: 'Martian,' 'Blade Runner,' 'Prometheus' sequels are all written

[Donald]

Ok