Weekend Actuals (Page 150): Apes 56.3M | SMH 44.2M | DM3 19.4M | Baby 8.7M | Big Dick 7.5M | WW 6.8M | Wish Upon 5.5M | Tomatoes losing their power

[TwoMisfits]

You're having a disagreement that is really impossible to reach agreement on...

 

I have this discussion a lot...when it comes to creative works - writing, art, movies, music...a lot of us can place things in consensus good/bad categories...this is good, that's bad, etc...however, what we can't do is really get into those baskets and reach agreement on what's great, what's very good, and what's just good...and the same for the bottom...why?  Because we tend to 1. value different things about the art, 2. feel different things about the art, and 3. come from a different place than others when considering the art.

 

I routinely tell teens that the difference between a B+ and an A college paper may very well be the teacher reading it...some love flow, some love tight papers, some love colorful language, some love unique ideas, some love crisply connected evidence, some love reading what they've never thought before, some love reading exactly what they've thought before, etc...it's easy to get you a B+ grade, but getting an A is just hard, unless you know how your teacher thinks:).  

 

I know, since I'm not a teen and not a guy, that I'm gonna come at a lot of movies differently than many of you...that doesn't mean I don't value your opinions - many times, we broadly agree which movies are good vs bad...

 

I think many of us agree the supers movies this year have all been good...we probably disagree how good and why, but the more helpful way to discuss is not "that critic says X" or "you're an idiot b/c did you see the drop - bad legs means bad"...but really what did you value in the movie, what moved you in the movie, and why did you value that/feel moved.  What might the other person be missing that you saw, both good and bad...

 

It's hard b/c we can't spoil...and I've posted my thoughts on what I saw and why, for me, SMH's up with Wonder Woman and Lego Batman...I admit - I value the hero/villain characters and concepts in movies very highly - I mean, you don't read Spidey (which I do) for Flash Thompson (as an example) - you read it for Spidey and his arc and nemeses:)...so, I'm okay with the supporting cast being not as "spot on" as previous versions b/c Spidey and Vulture were just so perfect in every way...and that perfection extended all the way through the climactic scenes and even the denouement...as an example of why I have this tied at the top for best Spidey...

 

 

 

 

[Brainiac5]

1 minute ago, Johnny Tran said:

 

I used to feel this way but most critics online are from random websites and some don't have any real experience in film or knowledge of film and film techniques or even basic literary knowledge. It's changed a lot.  There's a lot of critics who really are no more than the opinion of your buddy which is fine if that's what you are looking for but I used to expect a higher base of knowledge. 

I don't know if you are old enough to remember but Siskel and Ebert got it right.

 

[Brainiac5]

6 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

 

I like you too, Baumer, but why should I believe a random person that Catwoman is better than TDK?

 

A consensus from people who love movies and professionally critique them has some value.

 

I know it's all subjective but if I had to choose between only watching movies with over 80% on RT and only watching movies Ethan recommends, I'm going with RT.

 

No offense, Ethan. 

Film is subjective and To be honest Critics are no different from me and you.

Are you not able to  recognize convoluted plot and unlawful Screen play?

Are you not able to recognize poor editing and eye burning CGI?

 I'm pretty sure you have ears to so the Score should als be heard .

[grey ghost]

8 minutes ago, KGator said:

 

Sure. Spider-Man 2 is the consensus favorite.  That would explain why it sold 15% fewer tickets than Spider-Man.  Less people went to see it because it was so much better,  Not that the actual WOM was that it wasn't as good as the first one (which is exactly what happened as it started it's run ready to crush the BO of the.previous movie only to see that momentum quickly dissipate).  

 

"consensus favorite"? I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

 

Yeah, the critics liked it.  Hell they also liked Spider-Man Homecoming which seemed like a movie in search of an identity to me.  Which only proves that critics and the public are not one and the same.

 

The only "consensus" is that Spider-Man 2 was better received than Spider-Man 3.  You can argue which of the 6 films is number 2 or 3 but the masses voted with their wallets and the choice for number one is pretty clear cut.

 

Tickets sold or legs don't indicate quality.

 

A New Hope made way more than Empire Strikes Back.

 

When novelty wears off it can hurt great movies at the box office.

[keysersoze123]

after the horrible drop no way this has great WOM. Its pretty average for sure. Cannot dispute raw numbers. Legs is all about WOM. With Apes under performing spidey should have held better. 

[grey ghost]

16 minutes ago, baumer said:

 

Because we all have our own opinions and taste in film.  I like Twilight way more than Potter.  Am I wrong for feeling that way just because critics and most people here feel otherwise?  

 

Your feelings are absolutely valid.

 

But a consensus among movie lovers can give you a better clue whether a movie is worth someone's time.

 

I'll put it this way. If 90% of hockey fans say a game is one of the best games of all time then you should probably watch it.

 

I never watch hockey. So if I tell you a hockey game is the best, you're probably better off watching the one with the consensus from hardcore hockey fans.

Edited July 18, 2017 by grey ghost

[Brainiac5]

2 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

 

Tickets sold or legs don't indicate quality.

 

A New Hope made way more than Empire Strikes Back.

 

When novelty wears off it can hurt great movies at the box office.

Maybe the fans Of Spider-Man wanted an actual story and not just fun at the movies.

Im not attacking the film at all be any means however Spider-Man films have always been Story driven and SM:HC is not that.

The film spends more time trying to make you laugh instead of getting you emotionally involved.

Before any of you call me a fanboy just Know Wonder Woman sits at the bottom of my list so far for CBM's 2017.

[grey ghost]

5 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

after the horrible drop no way this has great WOM. Its pretty average for sure. Cannot dispute raw numbers. Legs is all about WOM. With Apes under performing spidey should have held better. 

 

All frontloaded movies are average?

[Barnack]

19 minutes ago, KGator said:

masses voted with their wallets and the choice for number one is pretty clear cut.

 

That does not sound that valid, they pay before seeing and having any clue if they like the movie at all. There was certainly a bigger crowd interest in the first one, is novelty, etc... that what box office mostly tell us. There was 0 resistance for the first one.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Barnack

[Barnack]

20 minutes ago, baumer said:

 

Because we all have our own opinions and taste in film.  I like Twilight way more than Potter.  Am I wrong for feeling that way just because critics and most people here feel otherwise?  

 

Those 2 are harder to distinguish in movie than say sports, but no one should be talking about taste and reviews/critics, that is not what is talking about.

 

No one is talking about what you should like, about being wrong for liking anything (I liked Movie 43 one of the most hated movie in recent year's) it is not about any of this.

[filmscholar]

Apes definitely ate into Spidey's numbers but that's not a great drop even when you look at Marvel films. Billion is definitely not a lock and 300 is going to be a crawl if it doesn't stabilizes.  Lucky for Spidey it does still have Summer weekdays but the Ironman/Marvel bump seemed to be temporary for OW.   The good news, it will surpass TASM2.  The bad news, it's only looking at TASM adjusted numbers and will get nowhere near the original Trilogy adjusted or not.  This might be the drawback of rebooting something twice within 4 years.  I don't know what happen with "War", everything seemed lined up for an increase but something happen.   That's a 17 Million drop from the previous OW for "Dawn".    Now to be fair, These are still good numbers for the "Planet of the Apes" franchise but again I guess it suffered from the "Threequel" drop trend.   More times than not, the 3rd film decreases from the 2nd one sans a few franchises.   Sadly "War" may struggle to reach "Rise" Adjusted totals but will finish Top 4 in Franchise History unadjusted.  

 

Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation

Rank	Title (click to view)	Studio	Adjusted Gross	Unadjusted Gross	Release
1	Spider-Man	Sony	$614,245,200	$403,706,375	5/3/02
2	Spider-Man 2	Sony	$531,803,300	$373,585,825	6/30/04
3	Spider-Man 3	Sony	$432,402,300	$336,530,303	5/4/07
4	The Amazing Spider-Man	Sony	$297,713,000	$262,030,663	7/3/12
5	The Amazing Spider-Man 2	Sony	$215,371,800	$202,853,933	5/2/14
6	Spider-Man: Homecoming	Sony	$207,275,500	$207,275,524	7/7/17
TOTAL:			$2,298,811,100	$1,785,982,623	-

 

 

Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation

Rank	Title (click to view)	Studio	Adjusted Gross	Unadjusted Gross	Release
1	Planet of the Apes (2001)	Fox	$281,135,300	$180,011,740	7/27/01
2	Dawn of the Planet of the Apes	Fox	$228,127,100	$208,545,589	7/11/14
3	Planet of the Apes	Fox	$219,917,800	$32,589,624	2/8/68
4	Rise of the Planet of the Apes	Fox	$196,840,100	$176,760,185	8/5/11
5	Beneath the Planet of the Apes	Fox	$108,359,700	$18,999,718	5/27/70
6	Escape from the Planet of the Apes	Fox	$66,160,200	$12,348,905	5/21/71
7	War for the Planet of the Apes	Fox	$56,262,900	$56,262,929	7/14/17
8	Conquest of the Planet of the Apes	Fox	$47,026,100	$9,043,472	6/14/72
9	Battle for the Planet of the Apes	Fox	$44,173,000	$8,844,595	5/23/73

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by filmscholar

[grey ghost]

1 minute ago, Brainiac5 said:

Maybe the fans Of Spider-Man wanted an actual story and not just fun at the movies.

Im not attacking the film at all be any means however Spider-Man films have always been Story driven and SM:HC is not that.

The film spends more time trying to make you laugh instead of getting you emotionally involved.

Before any of you call me a fanboy just Know Wonder Woman sits at the bottom of my list so far for CBM's 2017.

 

Spider-man fans like SMH just fine.

 

I already pointed out how SMH did better against franchise fatigue than almost every franchise sequel this year.

 

Way better.

[grey ghost]

Based on how franchise sequels performed this year and the typical trajectory of Spider-man movies, SMH should've made around 140 m DOM.

[Brainiac5]

5 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

 

Spider-man fans like SMH just fine.

 

I already pointed out how SMH did better against franchise fatigue than almost every franchise sequel this year.

 

Way better.

There's a good amount of Spider-Man fans who do not like this movie.

I have seen more rants/"SM:HC sucks"Videos then I have seen for any other MCU film and that's telling on its second weekend drop.

 

Remember the biggest dream a MCU fan had was to Have Spider-Man Back At Marvel how does it suffer the biggest MCU drop ever!!!??...

 

 

[Brainiac5]

2 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

Based on how franchise sequels performed this year and the typical trajectory of Spider-man movies, SMH should've made around 140 m DOM.

So now it's a sequel

[grey ghost]

15 minutes ago, Brainiac5 said:

There's a good amount of Spider-Man fans who do not like this movie.

I have seen more rants/"SM:HC sucks"Videos then I have seen for any other MCU film and that's telling on its second weekend drop.

 

Remember the biggest dream a MCU fan had was to Have Spider-Man Back At Marvel how does it suffer the biggest MCU drop ever!!!??...

 

 

 

I don't care how many "SMH sucks" videos are out there.

 

You can probably find several videos on YT saying the Star Wars prequels are better than the Disney SW movies.

 

Nostalgia is a helluva drug.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by grey ghost

[grey ghost]

13 minutes ago, Brainiac5 said:

So now it's a sequel

 

It's a franchise sequel, what else do you call it?

 

It's the 6th Spider-man movie in 15 years (7th if you include CW).

 

Franchise fatigue should be a major factor.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by grey ghost

[grey ghost]

How many franchise films in 2017 had a bigger increase over the last movie than SMH will have?

 

Give credit where credit is due.

 

Marvel Studios had a huge mountain to climb between franchise fatigue and franchise baggage. Both of these factors doomed most franchises this year.

 

 

 

 

[Barnack]

2 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

How many franchise films in 2017 had a bigger increase over the last movie than SMH will have?

 

Possible depending were Spider Man finish:

John Wick 2: 113% improvement

Logan: 67% improvement

 

From the others to come, Cloverfield & Kingsman are 2 candidate.

[a2k]

SMH is on track for 300+/550-600/850-900. That's big.

No doubt IM fans front-loaded it somewhat.

 

Will loose premium screens to Dunkirk. But post that it's an open run pretty much.

 

Should add 2.25-2.5x the 2nd weekend gross (44.2) to it's cume. That gives 207.2 + 99.5-110.5 =  306-318 (2.62-2.72x off the 117 ow)