Classic Conversation Thread

[Tarintino]

18 minutes ago, AJG said:

 

That joke sucked and I don't think anyone is trying to find the comedy in some poor random woman going to work and getting shot to death.

We can find the joke funny whilst still finding what happened to be tragic. If you dont have a sense of humour then fine, but dont judge the people that do, they make the world a more interesting place

[Torontofan]

50 minutes ago, AJG said:

 

That joke sucked and I don't think anyone is trying to find the comedy in some poor random woman going to work and getting shot to death.

Dude the funniest family guy joke is about 9/11

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Torontofan

[filmlover]

Amy's joke was lame and rightfully given the boot, even if it wouldn't have been out of place in a failed ceremony that was already full of flop attempts at humor aimed at no audience in particular even before The Slap sucked all the fun out of the room for the rest of the show.

[Eric S'ennui]

 

@lorddemaxus We won fam

[Tarintino]

29 minutes ago, filmlover said:

Amy's joke was lame and rightfully given the boot, even if it wouldn't have been out of place in a failed ceremony that was already full of flop attempts at humor aimed at no audience in particular even before The Slap sucked all the fun out of the room for the rest of the show.

People here also said Ricky Gervais' speech wasn't funny but his speech was the only thing people remember from any golden globe ceremony.

 

It all depends on what the oscars want to be. Do they want a show for the actors? Or for the people watching at home? If they want less views then make it for the actors however we know hollywood, they want the views and they want people to care therefore choosing to be the butt of the jokes gets us average joe's at home alot more interested.

[filmlover]

The Oscars have survived for 90+ years because they are (were?) a classy awards show celebrating movies, not a place where celebrities get roasted for 3 hours. Other awards shows like SAG are still easy to watch because they don't attempt to stretch themselves, while the Oscars, being arguably the godfather of awards shows, have been collapsing under an identity crisis in an attempt to "modernize" them. All they're accomplishing is becoming a better dressed, less trashy version of the People's Choice or MTV Movie Awards.

 

Meanwhile, since his Grammy win has been causing controversy, this sounds about right.

 

 

Guest Column: Blame Louis C.K.’s Grammy Comeback on Comedy’s Gatekeepers https://t.co/0Yil10wvKg

— The Hollywood Reporter (@THR) April 5, 2022

 

(note that I doubt this will launch a full-blown comeback for him when he's almost certainly still blackballed by most of the industry - when you've admitted that the allegations against you are actually true, there's not a whole lot else to say)

[AJG]

27 minutes ago, Tarintino said:

People here also said Ricky Gervais' speech wasn't funny but his speech was the only thing people remember from any golden globe ceremony.

 

It all depends on what the oscars want to be. Do they want a show for the actors? Or for the people watching at home? If they want less views then make it for the actors however we know hollywood, they want the views and they want people to care therefore choosing to be the butt of the jokes gets us average joe's at home alot more interested.

Amy Schumer is not Ricky Gervais and the butt of her joke was a woman that was killed at work less than a year ago.

Also the Ricky Gervais bit was funny but at the end of the day it was tame, broad, approved for broadcast, observations hyped up by dull online audience that think Netflix comedians are the sole arbiters of rebellion, truth, and philosophical thinking. Those Jimmy Kimmel “mean tweets” are more scathing.

[Torontofan]

30 minutes ago, AJG said:

Amy Schumer is not Ricky Gervais and the butt of her joke was a woman that was killed at work less than a year ago.

Also the Ricky Gervais bit was funny but at the end of the day it was tame, broad, approved for broadcast, observations hyped up by dull online audience that think Netflix comedians are the sole arbiters of rebellion, truth, and philosophical thinking. Those Jimmy Kimmel “mean tweets” are more scathing.

 

The mean tweets are said by random people and the joke is more about how people can say such dumb mean things.

 

Also the person getting roasted is saying the tweets.

 

Its not the same at all. 

[Torontofan]

51 minutes ago, filmlover said:

The Oscars have survived for 90+ years because they are (were?) a classy awards show celebrating movies, not a place where celebrities get roasted for 3 hours. Other awards shows like SAG are still easy to watch because they don't attempt to stretch themselves, while the Oscars, being arguably the godfather of awards shows, have been collapsing under an identity crisis in an attempt to "modernize" them. All they're accomplishing is becoming a better dressed, less trashy version of the People's Choice or MTV Movie Awards.

 

Meanwhile, since his Grammy win has been causing controversy, this sounds about right.

 

 

 

(note that I doubt this will launch a full-blown comeback for him when he's almost certainly still blackballed by most of the industry - when you've admitted that the allegations against you are actually true, there's not a whole lot else to say)

 

Louie got cancelled when #metoo took off. Since then a ton of comedians accused of much worse have been still doing gigs (I doubt the stuff against Aziz Ansari would even make headlines now)

 

#metoo started to die down  when it started going after major leaders like Clinton, Biden, Trudeau and others. 

[Tarintino]

38 minutes ago, AJG said:

Amy Schumer is not Ricky Gervais and the butt of her joke was a woman that was killed at work less than a year ago.

Also the Ricky Gervais bit was funny but at the end of the day it was tame, broad, approved for broadcast, observations hyped up by dull online audience that think Netflix comedians are the sole arbiters of rebellion, truth, and philosophical thinking. Those Jimmy Kimmel “mean tweets” are more scathing.

Ricky gervais joked about Caitlyn Jenner running someone over and people found it amusing so its hard to know where the line gets drawn these days 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Tarintino

[Eric S'ennui]

9 minutes ago, Tarintino said:

Ricky gervais joked about Caitlyn Jenner running someone over and people found it amusing so its hard to know where the line gets drawn these days 

2016 was a long time ago. People's tolerance and standards change, which is objectively a good thing. If you want me to give you a good line on something, just think of the "punching up vs. punching down" method. If a comedian mocks transgender people or Muslims or other oppressed groups of people, that's punching down and that's not okay. Mocking people in power, like politicians or billionaires or racists, is punching up and that's okay.

 

And even then, looking at Gervais' joke, despite going after a big, major celebrity, there's still a lot of dated "women can't drive har har har" jokes that are punching down and super sexist and even used Caitlyn's dead name in his bit, which is also punching down. Sure, maybe people were fine with it in 2016, but that doesn't make it okay, and it shows that he needs to adapt his taste, at least if he wants to be a good person.

 

For the record, I'm more than fine with people dunking on Caitlyn Jenner. She's a garbage human and sucks hardcore. But deadnaming and using sexist humor against her is not the way to do it.

[Eric S'ennui]

 

[CoolioD1]

that whole situation is basically a farhadi movie plot.

[filmlover]

1 hour ago, Torontofan said:

 

Louie got cancelled when #metoo took off. Since then a ton of comedians accused of much worse have been still doing gigs (I doubt the stuff against Aziz Ansari would even make headlines now)

 

#metoo started to die down  when it started going after major leaders like Clinton, Biden, Trudeau and others. 

It's because those allegations ended up being exactly just that: allegations. The only way people truly get cancelled is if you're found guilty in a court of law or admit to such actions, hence why most of the time such allegations don't go much further than "he said/she said" territory (especially if there's no sufficient evidence, and could very well result in a defamation lawsuit). The U.S. Court System is not a toy.

 

Louie got cancelled because he admitted out in the open that he did the things he did. That's why Kevin Spacey is now persona non grata as well (he didn't deny the allegations against him when he addressed it, and in fact used it as his "coming out" moment to deflect from the severity of the accusations). These people have no one to be angry at but themselves as to why they are banished from mainstream projects now.

Edited April 5, 2022 by filmlover

[Torontofan]

@filmlover

 

Seems to be why these days anything happens people just dont say anything and hope the story fades i find. 

 

There was one comedian who bragged about exchanging sexual favours for comedy gigs to let female comedians perform and then he just ignored it and he still touring. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Torontofan

[Torontofan]

2 hours ago, Eric the Hedgehog said:

2016 was a long time ago. People's tolerance and standards change, which is objectively a good thing. If you want me to give you a good line on something, just think of the "punching up vs. punching down" method. If a comedian mocks transgender people or Muslims or other oppressed groups of people, that's punching down and that's not okay. Mocking people in power, like politicians or billionaires or racists, is punching up and that's okay.

 

And even then, looking at Gervais' joke, despite going after a big, major celebrity, there's still a lot of dated "women can't drive har har har" jokes that are punching down and super sexist and even used Caitlyn's dead name in his bit, which is also punching down. Sure, maybe people were fine with it in 2016, but that doesn't make it okay, and it shows that he needs to adapt his taste, at least if he wants to be a good person.

 

For the record, I'm more than fine with people dunking on Caitlyn Jenner. She's a garbage human and sucks hardcore. But deadnaming and using sexist humor against her is not the way to do it.

 

Punching up and down is a huge mess cause its like what if a muslim comedian who really is not an actual practising muslim makes muslim jokes.

He is still punching down ? (Idk find most minority comedians who make jokes on their own people, just making million on that act )

 

or if I am minority comedian and make a joke about gay white guy is that punching up or down cause on the  "hierachy of opression' white gay man is above a minority? or is he idk 

 

Its why modern day comedy is a huge mess on the mainstream level. 

 

Best comedy I find are people who just appeal to their niche and crowd and stay away from broadcast TV as they can just express themselves and if its not good they just fade away.  

Edited April 5, 2022 by Torontofan

[YM!]

5 hours ago, Torontofan said:

Dude the funniest family guy joke is about 9/11

 

 

 

As someone who still currently watches Family Guy, I don’t even think it’s in my top 100 bits/jokes.

[Eric S'ennui]

5 minutes ago, Torontofan said:

 

Punching up and down is a huge mess cause its like what if a muslim comedian who really is not an actual practising muslim makes muslim jokes.

He is still punching down ?

 

or if I am minority comedian and make a joke about gay white guy is that punching up or down cause on the  "hierachy of opression' white gay man is above a minority? or is he idk 

 

Its why modern day comedy is a huge mess on the mainstream level. 

 

Best comedy I find are people who just appeal to their niche and crowd and stay away from broadcast TV as they can just express themselves and if its not good they just fade away.  

Well in those scenarios, like it is with every joke, it depends on the context. It depends on what is actually being said. If the humor of a minority comedian is tackling a gay white man's position of privilege, then that's punching up. If it it is gags about his preference towards men, that's punching down. If a Muslim comedian is making jokes about his own people...well, that's a bit more nuanced, but if he's tackling certain stereotypes and mocking them for how ridiculous they are, then I would argue that is also punching up.

[Torontofan]

39 minutes ago, Eric the Hedgehog said:

Well in those scenarios, like it is with every joke, it depends on the context. It depends on what is actually being said. If the humor of a minority comedian is tackling a gay white man's position of privilege, then that's punching up. If it it is gags about his preference towards men, that's punching down. If a Muslim comedian is making jokes about his own people...well, that's a bit more nuanced, but if he's tackling certain stereotypes and mocking them for how ridiculous they are, then I would argue that is also punching up.

 

 

So my question is who decides when it is punching up or down?

 

People on twitter? 

People on there usually dont have any sense

 

 

Cause now I can understand why comedy on the broadcast and mainstream level has become such a mess lately. This is no logic or sense behind it apart from personal subjective preferences which is a minefield always.

 

Like if a white guy makes a joke about India and indians find it funny, but other white people get offended. Who is punching up or down there? 

 

The white comedian or white people assuming everyone in that group has a hivemind and think and feel the same and assumes we must be offended?

 

I generally understand the idea around punching up or down but its not very clear cut as make out to be at all. Comedy is based on the absurd and shocking oneself. 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Torontofan

[Eric S'ennui]

3 minutes ago, Torontofan said:

 

 

So my question is who decides when it is punching up or down?

 

People on twitter? 

 

or yourself? 

 

Cause now I can understand why comedy on the broadcast and mainstream level has become extremely unfunny lately.

You. Your subjective opinion. This may surprise you, but I am well aware that not everybody thinks exactly the same and that nuance exists. Even the people on Twitter who you love to complain as out of touch buffoons who want to "cancel" everybody (and honestly, folks like you care way more about Twitter than the people who actually use it) are not this monolithic group who all believe the same stuff. Sure, a good chunk of people may agree something is too offensive and hurtful, but a good chunk of people agree on certain things all the time. And they have the right to call out comedians, who do hold a position of power, for what they feel is punching down just as much as you have in the opposite scenario.

 

Regardless, comedians are in no way an endangered species nor threatened like you've made it out to be in your recent posts. Chris Rock's instance is 100% certain to be a rarity (no, people won't slap comedians in the face like you're fearing the evil Twitter users will do), Amy Schumer will still get TV and stand-up gigs, and people holding funnymen more accountable for what they say might cause some jokes to fall aside, but if a few tasteless gags that 9 times out of 9 aren't even funny are no longer used...yeah, I fail to see how that's such a horrible thing to fret about.