The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[boxoff53]

1 minute ago, ZattMurdock said:

It doesn’t even need to be said, the hard data backs me up. Captain Marvel is way more popular than Ant-Man. All the metrics possible when it comes to these characters point to that. Sometimes you just gotta read absurd shit and let it go.

Ok when this movie comes out and makes roughly the same as an ant man movie, we will see how absurd it is. My point isn't that ant man is beloved.  It's that Captain Marvel isn't. 

[SpiderByte]

8 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Imagine telling someone in 2019 that a horror movie released simultaneously on streaming and in theaters would open higher than the sequel to Captain Marvel.

 

Audiences are tired of the MCU, the low-quality products aren't helping, so they are moving on to new franchises.

Let's wait and see how fnafs post-release review embargo goes before declaring that the MCU is being rejected for something with better quality 

[Bob Train]

2023 is the year the long-running, fatigued franchises died, and new ones took off. We have seen this all year. Transformers, Fast and Furious, MCU, DCEU, Indiana Jones all tanked this year. Barbie, Mario, FNAF will be some of the highest openers of the year.

[JustLurking]

Pretty sure FNAF will be utter trash. Won't really matter to the fanbase, but between trailers and embargo, this feels like some 10-20% rt garbage incoming to me.

 

That's not to say it won't do great numbers still, mind you. Probably not as much internationally though.

Edited October 21, 2023 by JustLurking

[SpiderByte]

6 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

2023 is the year the long-running, fatigued franchises died, and new ones took off. We have seen this all year. Transformers, Fast and Furious, MCU, DCEU, Indiana Jones all tanked this year. Barbie, Mario, FNAF will be some of the highest openers of the year.

Yeah, those famously small franchises, Barbie and Mario

[Wandavisionlover0924]

Is the Marvels doing better on pre-sales or is it the same. I haven't been here in a while

[Bob Train]

Just now, SpiderByte said:

Yeah, those famously small franchises, Barbie and Mario

How many Barbie or Mario movies were hit movies before the year 2023? These are franchises that have been big but never theatrically. Until now. Because of this, they are immune to franchise fatigue that is plaguing most franchises, as audiences haven't gotten tired of them yet.

[SpiderByte]

27 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

How many Barbie or Mario movies were hit movies before the year 2023? These are franchises that have been big but never theatrically. Until now. Because of this, they are immune to franchise fatigue that is plaguing most franchises, as audiences haven't gotten tired of them yet.

These are a lot of assumptions based off of literally one year. 

[TheFlatLannister]

2 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Crazy how big of a bomb this is shaping up to be. A 40% drop from the total box office of the first movie seemed reasonable but this might/probably drop 60-65% from the first movie. Crazy.

[TheFlatLannister]

47 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

2023 is the year the long-running, fatigued franchises died, and new ones took off. We have seen this all year. Transformers, Fast and Furious, MCU, DCEU, Indiana Jones all tanked this year. Barbie, Mario, FNAF will be some of the highest openers of the year.

I doubt FNAF turns into a multi film franchise. Barbie defintely feels like a one-hit wonder, where any spin-off would do a fraction of $1.4B. Mario is the only viable long term movie IP here and that's because its one of the biggest names in all of entertainment. 

[John Marston]

wait are we now pretending Captain Marvel wasn't heavily helped by Endgame and MCU mania and make comparisons to Ant Man and the Wasp? Lol

 

-Captain Marvel was teased at the end of Infinity War

-The Captain Marvel trailers had an "epic" feel to them

-Captain Marvel was released a little over a month before Endgame

-The final trailer and poster for Endgame was released the week Captain Marvel opened which featured...Captain Marvel

-Feige was out heavily hyping up Captain Marvel. Saying she was going to be the new face of the MCU. He said it HIMSELF

 

 

Kevin Feige Says Captain Marvel Will Lead the Marvel Cinematic Universe (comicbook.com)

 

vs Ant Man 2 which was Ant Man and his wacky adventures. He turns big and small

[SpiderByte]

3 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

I doubt FNAF turns into a multi film franchise. Barbie defintely feels like a one-hit wonder, where any spin-off would do a fraction of $1.4B. Mario is the only viable long term movie IP here and that's because its one of the biggest names in all of entertainment. 

Well, it's dirt cheap, so they'll make more, that's the Blumhouse model

[JustLurking]

Barbie as a film was definitely not made for sequels, not that it ever stopped studios, mind you; if they can get Robbie and Gosling on board it will be done. Mario will obviously get a plethora of sequels and probably spinoffs and FNAF will definitely get sequels - even if the second film drops off a cliff it will still make big profit.

[JimmyB]

15 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

Oh my.....300-350m worldwide? I was thinking Indy 5 numbers

[boxoff53]

35 minutes ago, John Marston said:

wait are we now pretending Captain Marvel wasn't heavily helped by Endgame and MCU mania and make comparisons to Ant Man and the Wasp? Lol

 

-Captain Marvel was teased at the end of Infinity War

-The Captain Marvel trailers had an "epic" feel to them

-Captain Marvel was released a little over a month before Endgame

-The final trailer and poster for Endgame was released the week Captain Marvel opened which featured...Captain Marvel

-Feige was out heavily hyping up Captain Marvel. Saying she was going to be the new face of the MCU. He said it HIMSELF

 

 

Kevin Feige Says Captain Marvel Will Lead the Marvel Cinematic Universe (comicbook.com)

 

vs Ant Man 2 which was Ant Man and his wacky adventures. He turns big and small

I'd guess a good 35 percent of people only saw captain marvel because they felt they had to for Endgame. And most of the people that did see it had exactly the same response one has after seeing the Ant man movies: meh. Except the Ant man movies have the benefit of scott lang being remotely likable or sympathetic. The absolute ceiling for the marvels is the same as an Ant man movie as far as I'm concerned. 

 

I've heard more people whining about Brie Larson than expressing love for the movie or character.  No memes (truly the only accurate barometer of adoration since the creation of social media). I have not seen these data or metrics that supposedly prove that character is popular in their own right, and anyone insisting she is will be disappointed in about three weeks. 

[John Marston]

3 hours ago, Blaze Heatnix said:

A hard fact: Other than the dedicated MCU fanbase that watches everything MCU related ( no matter how good / bad it is ), people overall don't care about The Marvels. It's just another MCU movie and it really lacks energy.

 

Now you might ask: Why is there a strange feeling that the movie is lacking energy and attention? That's what Mr Kevin Feige and his team should figure out.

 

So, what's the main draw for this movie? How is it relevant to the MCU narrative? Why should I care about it? Guardians 3 is/was meant to be the end of the story with the characters we got to know in the past. Even Ant-Man 3 had something like the main villain to be set up for the next Phase. Now, what do we have for Marvels? 

 

I don't think the strikes are playing a part on the lack of interest. There's something odd with the movie, the tone, the style. I think they're trying to turn Captain Marvel movie into a mix of Thor Ragnarok / Love and Thunder and Guardians all together. The tone/style is all over the place.

 

The visuals at least look pretty, BUT this movie has nothing going for it. 

 

Now let's go to another serious / bombastic discussion: Is Brie the right actress for the role? I think she's a great actress, BUT I'm not feeling her character. It's not organic like Downey Jr for Iron Man, Evans for Captain. I feel it's forced. I feel she's acting and trying way too hard. Maybe the writing team isn't helping at all and a better director could get the best from her, but sorry folks, I don't think she's right for the role.  Where's the organic connection between actor and character? 

 

I liked her in Captain Marvel 1, but I didn't like her in Endgame and I'm not interested in this sequel. I really think something happened ( behind the scenes maybe? Not sure ) and she lost her "mojo". 

 

 

They seem to want Captain Marvel to be a stoic Clint Eastwood type character and it doesn’t work. At all

[DInky]

I have a feeling that Scott Lang as a character is more beloved just due to the simple fact that audiences have spent way more time with him than with Carol.

 

Edit: Just want to quickly respond to Blaze Heatnix's post about not liking Carol in Endgame. They actually shot Endgame first and hadn't figured out the character yet so that's why there's not much to her in Endgame.

Edited October 21, 2023 by DInky

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, John Marston said:

 

 

They seem to want Captain Marvel to be a stoic Clint Eastwood type character and it doesn’t work. At all

Stoic? Yeah. But Clint Eastwood?
 

 

 

Lol.

 

I’m with Gail Simone here:

 

 

So yeah, she isn’t cracking jokes all the time like idk, Thor. I like it. In the MCU, I find it refreshing. And it’s not like she is brooding, pouting or anything. I think it’s cool. And I’m dying to see her hang out with She-Hulk and Wasp. I want more Earth downtime Carol Danvers.

 

 

 

[DInky]

Even if she was written to be wisecracking there would be hordes of men who would dislike that as well. Every time a woman does stand up comedy, men complain that they're not funny. I genuinely believe that most men dislike funny women.

[ZattMurdock]

26 minutes ago, DInky said:

Even if she was written to be wisecracking there would be hordes of men who would dislike that as well. Every time a woman does stand up comedy, men complain that they're not funny. I genuinely believe that most men dislike funny women.

It’s quite weird how much it seems like a lot of the most vocal criticism towards women online comes from men that seem to just hate women in general. Not aimed to John Marston post particularly, just a commentary in the general response to most if not all women in lead position in films. It’s hard for me to even find one single one that hasn’t faced some weird criticisms. But the things that people criticize about women almost makes it look that that old adage about only women actually liking other women is true.

 

I mean one of the most understandable criticisms I’ve seen for prominent women in film is that  Gadot was part of the IDF, even some of her online positions or lack of. I can understand why that would warrant criticism, but meanwhile Tom Cruise is the god of cinema and is running Scientology on the side. But it’s always something, and don’t tell me it’s just Brie Larson’s Carol Danvers. I’ve seen a lot of that thrown at Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn too.

Edited October 21, 2023 by ZattMurdock