Weekend Numbers [Aug 02 - Aug 04, 2024] | Actuals | 96.81M DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE | 22.80M TWISTERS | 15.45M TRAP

[HummingLemon496]

Just now, ThomasNicole said:

And yet only 6 movies manage to do it so far in this decade ... and most of them only needed huge cultural crossover of SH characters, the most insane marketing campaign of the century with the biggest doll of all time, the fidedign adaptation of the biggest videogame of all time. And none of them manage to beat A1, which only shows how that shouldn´t be the goal.

 

Idk, i simply cannot see how this could possibly be an ´´above average´´ performance. Above average performance for me is a blockbuster selling 25M tickets, a big success but quite easily achievable in this type of industry, now 50M tickets wasn´t such an easy task even 15 years ago, much less now. 

 

Anyway, i think i´ve made my point so that´s it.

Alright, I think it's just best to agree to disagree atp

 

(and I'm a huge Disney/Avatar supporter so your stance on this doesn't upset me or anything)

[AniNate]

3 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

(and I'm a huge Disney/Avatar supporter so your stance on this doesn't upset me or anything)

 

This seems to be the problem to the point that you are emotionally invested in their box office takes to a far larger extent than Disney themselves are. I guarantee you they do not look at Avatar 2 as a "disappointment".

[Ryan C]

7 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

If something the first 5 months of the year should´ve teach us, is that we really need to be grateful when something succeeds big time and keeps theatrical moving instead of comparing to an gold age that will likely never come back. 

 

This whole century is a disappointment if we compare with admissions of successes from the past century. Stats are essential for industry discussions, but so is context and history.

 

This. This is what a lot of people need to hear in regards to the state of the box office. 

 

As sad as it is, we're never going back to where we were pre-COVID. We just won't. Even if we have a much stronger volume of movies once we get past everything that happened with the strikes, it doesn't change the fact that inflation is not going anywhere, studios have gotten much greedier (they want to make as much money as possible with as few movies as possible) and since 2019, we lost a major studio with 20th Century Fox. That alone is why we don't have as many theatrical releases as we did last decade. 

 

This is why we need to embrace and cherish every single success that we get no matter how big or small they are. Constantly complaining about movies not selling as many tickets/admissions compared to other ones is not healthy. You're pretty much asking to be disappointed and wish for a past that's not gonna come back. 

 

As much as I like comparing how the films are doing today compared to ones of the past, it should not be used to put down the success of another movie.

 

Long story short, Avatar: The Way of Water is not a disappointment. We're still talking about a movie that grossed more than $2B at the worldwide box office. No movie should ever be considered a disappointment if it passes that milestone. 

[wattage]

That 100M final was incredible. I wonder if one of the huge men's track showdowns being today impacts Deadpool. Hopefully not! 

[KP1025]

23 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

I´m talking about global admissions, Avatar is a global phenomenon way more than a domestic one. 

 

And no, it´s not a disappointment anyway. It´s extremelly common for sequels to drop a lot in admissions, happens all the time, and it was expected for an original movie that pretty much everyone paid to see, of course a part of this audience didn´t like it and won´t come back for the sequel of a movie they didn´t care anymore. With all the problems theatrical is facing, is insane to call nearly 50M tickets sold in one country as something very disappointing.

 

It´s very likely that the next Avengers won´t come close to EG. It´s very likely that SM4 won´t get close to NWH if they didn´t come up with a bigger gimmick than bringing back the OG ones. It´s even more likely that somewhat standalone movies like Maverick (that obviously got a different demo than the original one with it´s 3 decades gap), Barbie, Mario etc will all drop a lot in admissions with their sequels. They won´t be disappointments because of it.

 

While admissions has a place in box office discussions, using it to discredit a fantastic run just seems disingenuous to me. Avatar 2 still became the 3rd highest grossing movie of all-time, and its gross is what ultimately matters in determining profitability and ranking in box office records. But you're arguing with a guy who thinks it qualifies as the most disappointing performance for a sequel.

 

 

 

[HummingLemon496]

4 minutes ago, KP1025 said:

 

While admissions has a place in box office discussions, using it to discredit a fantastic run just seems disingenuous to me. Avatar 2 still became the 3rd highest grossing movie of all-time, and its gross is what ultimately matters in determining profitability and ranking in box office records. But you're arguing with a guy who thinks it qualifies as the most disappointing performance for a sequel.

 

Dude, I don't think it's literally the most disappointing performance for a sequel ever.

 

I just said that in the thread because the actual most disappointing sequel performance is very obvious (The Marvels).

 

 

Edited August 4 by HummingLemon496

[Migs20242]

Very strong hold for both Deadpool & Wolverine and Inside Out 2 this weekend. Impressive.

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

29 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

This is true, Avatar 2 is the biggest movie of the 21st century in global admissions

 

Of the 2020's perhaps but not of the 21st century.

[PlatnumRoyce]

Since we're all talking about Avatar 2 and admissions v. gross, it's worth flagging that in terms of raw admissions, it's literally the third highest selling film by admissions in Europe (67M) since 1996 behind Titanic (111M) and Avatar 1 (82M) (though European moviegoing was rising in the 21st century unlike the US) and actually outsold Avatar 1 in "first run EU" admissions (58.6M for A1 versus 62.4 for A2) even if Avatar 1 has a lead for the entire council of Europe admissions during the first run. I'm defining first run as "2009 + 2010" admissions and 2022 + 2023 admissions for self-evident reasons.  

https://lumiere.obs.coe.int/search

 

  

19 minutes ago, KP1025 said:

and its gross is what ultimately matters

The randomness of worldwide relative price variations just aren't meaningful. I imagine you want something to adjust for surcharge tickets and/or raw profit but trying to strip out the stuff that's purely due to luck seems reasonable. 

Edited August 4 by PlatnumRoyce
added overall number

[grey ghost]

1 hour ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

Cameron is one of a kind. We can lump Dune in there too I guess but that's a pretty big IP. So I'm not sure I see this happening with this being next big wave of mega blockbusters. I'm not as obsessed with Cameron as others but I'm not sure who these other directors that challenge him in world building are... Peter Jackson was one of them.

 

Biggest recent movies this summer and last summer were comedies first and foremost - Barbie, Inside Out, Deadpool. Maybe that trend continues?

 

George Lucas was the king of world building. How many Star Wars character are S-tier iconic?

[PlatnumRoyce]

22 minutes ago, Ryan C said:

As much as I like comparing how the films are doing today compared to ones of the past, it should not be used to put down the success of another movie.

 

But that just doesn't work. If you're trying to figure out how well something did you're going to need to allow for the possibility of bad results or you're just intentionally cherry picking the data. Instead of Avatar 2, let's look at Black Panther 2's domestic gross. 

I'm pretty sure I was wrong about a lot of 2022 film results due to being more aggressive about focusing on the role of inflation in masking box office weakness but that's a flaw in analysis. If I just didn't say anything about those films because it would make their results look bad, I'd be just as wrong even if I had hiding my true reading in order to boost the vibes around those films. Trying to figure out the right adjustment for pre/post pandemic films doesn't inherently yield a too small or too large adjustment. People making excuses for Disney's early pandemic animated results were just as clearly wrong as people underselling a film like Thor 4. 

[Ryan C]

4 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

But that just doesn't work. If you're trying to figure out how well something did you're going to need to allow for the possibility of bad results or you're just intentionally cherry picking the data. Instead of Avatar 2, let's look at Black Panther 2's domestic gross. 

I'm pretty sure I was wrong about a lot of 2022 film results due to being more aggressive about focusing on the role of inflation in masking box office weakness but that's a flaw in analysis. If I just didn't say anything about those films because it would make their results look bad, I'd be just as wrong even if I had hiding my true reading in order to boost the vibes around those films. Trying to figure out the right adjustment for pre/post pandemic films doesn't inherently yield a too small or too large adjustment. People making excuses for Disney's early pandemic animated results were just as clearly wrong as people underselling a film like Thor 4. 

 

I'll just clarify that I didn't mean what I said to come across as someone who intentionally cherry picks data and leaves out bad results.

 

I just said that people need to stop using the role of inflation to put down a movie's success. Keep in mind that a lot of these people do it in a way that feels disingenuous and not because they care about actually analyzing the movie. Personally, if I were making comparisons to inflation-adjusted numbers (which I have done before), I would simply say that even though this movie won't sell as many tickets as this other movie, it's still doesn't take away from it being a success. 

 

I'll still bring up inflation-adjusted numbers (no matter how good or bad they are), but never in the way that simple-minded people who don't know how the box office works do. 

[ringedmortality]

24 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

But that just doesn't work. If you're trying to figure out how well something did you're going to need to allow for the possibility of bad results or you're just intentionally cherry picking the data. Instead of Avatar 2, let's look at Black Panther 2's domestic gross. 

I'm pretty sure I was wrong about a lot of 2022 film results due to being more aggressive about focusing on the role of inflation in masking box office weakness but that's a flaw in analysis. If I just didn't say anything about those films because it would make their results look bad, I'd be just as wrong even if I had hiding my true reading in order to boost the vibes around those films. Trying to figure out the right adjustment for pre/post pandemic films doesn't inherently yield a too small or too large adjustment. People making excuses for Disney's early pandemic animated results were just as clearly wrong as people underselling a film like Thor 4. 

bro what are you talking about 

[AniNate]

Who has made excuses for the early Disney animations? I'm pretty sure Lightyear, strange world and wish being flops is a generally agreed upon consensus

 

 

Edited August 4 by AniNate

[blazera]

55 minutes ago, KP1025 said:

 

While admissions has a place in box office discussions, using it to discredit a fantastic run just seems disingenuous to me. Avatar 2 still became the 3rd highest grossing movie of all-time, and its gross is what ultimately matters in determining profitability and ranking in box office records. But you're arguing with a guy who thinks it qualifies as the most disappointing performance for a sequel.

 

 

 

100%. Over 2 billion and the 3rd highest grossing movie ever. With a 13 year gap between those 2 movies is a massive win. Most did not belive that would be possible. That admissions will be down was obvious before release. The landscape changed so much over the years. And also important - it was a well recieved cinematic event by general audiences. A good sign for upcoming Avatar movies. So a win in every form. How that can be seen as undeperforming or disappointing is beyond me.

[Migs20242]

Deadpool & Wolverine is now behind of Jurassic World after 2nd weekend.

 

Deadpool & Wolverine - $395,575,919

 

Jurassic World - $402,800,065

[AniNate]

If they're referring to encanto, well, I think its cultural influence speaks for itself. Box office performance aside it's clearly a very lucrative IP and not something Disney considers a writeoff. Latent pandemic anxiety (and possibly streaming conditioning) was obviously a factor in its muted run 

 

Raya is a little trickier but that also came out in an anxious environment, so I don't think there is any way that can be objectively evaluated. Likely not the phenomenon encanto was but I don't think it can be fairly labeled a bomb either

[JohnnyGossamer]

1 hour ago, ThomasNicole said:

I´m talking about global admissions, Avatar is a global phenomenon way more than a domestic one. 

 

And no, it´s not a disappointment anyway. It´s extremelly common for sequels to drop a lot in admissions, happens all the time, and it was expected for an original movie that pretty much everyone paid to see, of course a part of this audience didn´t like it and won´t come back for the sequel of a movie they didn´t care anymore. With all the problems theatrical is facing, is insane to call nearly 50M tickets sold in one country as something very disappointing.

 

It´s very likely that the next Avengers won´t come close to EG. It´s very likely that SM4 won´t get close to NWH if they didn´t come up with a bigger gimmick than bringing back the OG ones. It´s even more likely that somewhat standalone movies like Maverick (that obviously got a different demo than the original one with it´s 3 decades gap), Barbie, Mario etc will all drop a lot in admissions with their sequels. They won´t be disappointments because of it.

Hear, hear. Well stated.

[Ryan C]

3 minutes ago, AniNate said:

If they're referring to encanto, well, I think its cultural influence speaks for itself. Box office performance aside it's clearly a very lucrative IP and not something Disney considers a writeoff. Latent pandemic anxiety (and possibly streaming conditioning) was obviously a factor in its muted run 

 

Raya is a little trickier but that also came out in an anxious environment, so I don't think there is any way that can be objectively evaluated. Likely not the phenomenon encanto was but I don't think it can be fairly labeled a bomb either

 

It's also the same thing in regards to the three Pixar originals (Soul, Luca, and Turning Red). How can one say they were bombs when they didn't even get a traditional theatrical release? 

 

Even though the decision to send them directly to Disney+ really did screw them over in the long run, it doesn't automatically equate to those specific movies being flops. 

[DAJK]

I know this isn’t really the topic of conversation in this thread at the moment, but looking ahead to next weekend, I hope something that studios realize from It Ends With Us is that:

 

a) Adult women (25+) are a legitimate movie-going audience that shouldn’t be ignored by the major studios. The reason they don’t come out as much is because the movies that are being made aren’t catering to their demographic as much as they are to men and families.

 

b) Even though the YA craze has died down from the early 2010’s, book-tok is a thing, books are still popular, and there are tons of best-selling novels aimed at adults that can be made into modestly-budgeted hits if you get the right star/marketing. I want to see more book adaptations in the future.