Game of Thrones (BOOK + TV) WARNING: SPOILERS [NO LEAKED EPISODE SPOILERS]

[cozmeesah]

I'm not thinking the Bolton Ninja Squad was a huge part of it. Just something small to add to all the something bigs (Mel's hold on him, the desertions, the unrelenting cold) that drove him over the edge.

Even when he threw Mel out of his tent in 7, the look on his face said he wasn't 100% opposed to the idea. He was still thinking after she left.

[4815162342]

I'm not thinking the Bolton Ninja Squad was a huge part of it. Just something small to add to all the something bigs (Mel's hold on him, the desertions, the unrelenting cold) that drove him over the edge.

Even when he threw Mel out of his tent in 7, the look on his face said he wasn't 100% opposed to the idea. He was still thinking after she left.

 

If D&D ever bothered to actually discuss the Red God religion, including the tale of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa, then Stannis' actions in the episode just might have worked enough for me. It's exactly the kind of sledgehammer foreshadowing D&D like to do (a story about how before the epic hero could get his Chosen One powers, he had to sacrifice the thing he loved most in the world).

 

^ If that had been included in this show, then we'd have gotten more justification and rationale for what happened.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Numbers of Westeros

[cozmeesah]

Stannis has killed his brother, tried to kill his nephew, and burned countless others just to satisfy Mel's Red God. Yet we all still rooted for him when we really had no business doing so. Why is this so different? They've stated time and again how Mel thinks the sacrifices will help him. He's shown before he values his "destiny" much more over others' lives.

The Unsullied all seem to get it without the R'hollor/Azor Ahai stuff (which they did talk about in Stannis' very first scene). They didn't seem to miss any justification for it. Why are so many book readers so stubborn about it?

Edited June 8, 2015 by House Cozmees of Everdeen

[4815162342]

Stannis has killed his brother

 

People bring this up, but Renly was preparing to assault Stannis' army with the intention of killing him.

 

But regardless, show Stannis has been handled far clumsier and less nuanced. You complain about readers being stubborn, but we have the right to criticize when we believe parts of an adaptation are handled poorly.

 

 

And you really think the show wouldn't be better if they cut out some of their fluff and put in actual meaningful stuff that gives actual context and explanation for character motives and actions?

Edited June 8, 2015 by Numbers of Westeros

[cozmeesah]

Probably. However, some of the book readers (not you, you're actually quite reasonable) go wayyyyyyy overboard with their reactions when anything is different or they thought it sucked compared to the book or if something new sucked.

It's like Calm down, spike. It'll be okay. It's a TV show.

[4815162342]

So, let's change subject: The Wall

 

 

D&D are telegraphing from a mile away that Olly is going to partake in the Ides of March, but I have no idea what the last straw is going to be. In the book the Pink Letter motivates Jon to take command of an army of Wildlings to march on Winterfell, but right now we have no idea what is going to make Jon decide something that will push everyone over the edge.

[Cmasterclay]

Here's a direct quote from the Inside the Episode from D&D where they practically confirm that Shireen is burnt by Stannis in WOW and this was planned all along:

 

"When George first told us about this, it was one of those times that I remember looking at Dan, and going, god, that's so horrible, and it's so good, because it all comes together in a story sense. From the very first time we meet Stannis and Melisandre, they are sacrificing and talking about king's blood, and the power it contains, and it all leads to this, to the sacrificing of Shireen."

 

Sure, Mel could just burn her solo, I suppose, but that quote reads alot to me like Stannis plays a role, which makes me LOL at people saying how big of idiots D&D are when GRRM was probably the one who planned it all along.

[boomboom234]

Here's a direct quote from the Inside the Episode from D&D where they practically confirm that Shireen is burnt by Stannis in WOW and this was planned all along:

 

"When George first told us about this, it was one of those times that I remember looking at Dan, and going, god, that's so horrible, and it's so good, because it all comes together in a story sense. From the very first time we meet Stannis and Melisandre, they are sacrificing and talking about king's blood, and the power it contains, and it all leads to this, to the sacrificing of Shireen."

 

Sure, Mel could just burn her solo, I suppose, but that quote reads alot to me like Stannis plays a role, which makes me LOL at people saying how big of idiots D&D are when GRRM was probably the one who planned it all along.

Stannis is at winterfell mel is at the wall there is no way he can give the order nor will he if you read the quote from winds mel will probably burn her on her own. Stannis does not sacrifice people to the red god he has people who were otherwise goingto be executed anyway burnt to death in exchange he is an atheist. D&D are idiots are a  whole host of other reasons

Edited June 8, 2015 by The Sun's Son

[Cmasterclay]

Stannis is at winterfell mel is at the wall there is no way he can give the order nor will he if you read the quote from winds mel will probably burn her on her own. Stannis does not sacrifice people to the red god he has people who were otherwise goingto be executed anyway burnt to death in exchange he is an atheist. D&D are idiots are a  whole host of other reasons

Well, nothing can convince you otherwise, clearly, even though that quote pretty much directly implies Stannis' role, AND the authorship of the Pink Letter potentially being Stannis would indicate that he is desperately scheming, AND that the Queen, Mel, and Shireen will probably flee the Wall after FTW.

[4815162342]

Here's a direct quote from the Inside the Episode from D&D where they practically confirm that Shireen is burnt by Stannis in WOW and this was planned all along:

 

"When George first told us about this, it was one of those times that I remember looking at Dan, and going, god, that's so horrible, and it's so good, because it all comes together in a story sense. From the very first time we meet Stannis and Melisandre, they are sacrificing and talking about king's blood, and the power it contains, and it all leads to this, to the sacrificing of Shireen."

 

Sure, Mel could just burn her solo, I suppose, but that quote reads alot to me like Stannis plays a role, which makes me LOL at people saying how big of idiots D&D are when GRRM was probably the one who planned it all along.

 

I think GRRM told them that Mel burns Shireen and they decided to have her do it with Stannis' consent. The way they say it is open to interpretation.

 

The general theory going in for Book 6 is that Mel/Selyse burn Shireen to try and resurrect/save Stannis and that inadvertently contributes to Jon becoming Not-Dead.

 

The other theory, which I wouldn't mind at all happening, is Stannis turning into the Night's King after becoming completely disillusioned and sacrificing Shireen that way. It would have a nice poetic symmetry of Stannis starting out thinking he is the promised Fire God savior, but winding up as an avatar for the Ice Evil. But that would require a decent amount of moving parts to happen and would be later on in the book.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Numbers of Westeros

[boomboom234]

Well, nothing can convince you otherwise, clearly, even though that quote pretty much directly implies Stannis' role, AND the authorship of the Pink Letter potentially being Stannis would indicate that he is desperately scheming, AND that the Queen, Mel, and Shireen will probably flee the Wall after FTW.

GRRM did not tell them everything that happens and from all that we know of the charecter as he is this is so far out of it that it simply can't even be considered an adaptation from one we have ap erson saying she is my sole heir and you will fight for her to the death even if I die the other shows him burning her alive are those two compatible. Now mel might do it selyse might do it hell val might kill her but Stannis would never it simply contrary to the charecter. As George says Stannis is a truly just man

[4815162342]

I suppose I could accept the Stannis events if the following happens next week:

 

Stannis beats the Boltons and is about to take Winterfell when all of a sudden Littlefinger on a majestic white stallion rides in with the entire Vale army to obliterate Stannis' forces and Stannis escapes only to get tenderized by Brienne.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Numbers of Westeros

[Cmasterclay]

I think GRRM told them that Mel burns Shireen and they decided to have her do it with Stannis' consent. The way they say it is open to interpretation.

 

The general theory going in for Book 6 is that Mel/Selyse burn Shireen to try and resurrect/save Stannis and that inadvertently contributes to Jon becoming Not-Dead.

 

The other theory, which I wouldn't mind at all happening, is Stannis turning into the Night's King after becoming completely disillusioned and sacrificing Shireen that way. It would have a nice poetic symmetry of Stannis starting out thinking he is the promised Fire God savior, but winding up as an avatar for the Ice Evil. But that would require a decent amount of moving parts to happen and would be later on in the book.

If it interferes with the revival of probably the main character of the entire saga, I highly doubt they would have changed that much, unless somehow it ends up that Shireen burning brings Jon back even though he isn't dead yet, which I don't see.

[4815162342]

If it interferes with the revival of probably the main character of the entire saga, I highly doubt they would have changed that much, unless somehow it ends up that Shireen burning brings Jon back even though he isn't dead yet, which I don't see.

 

There's been two competing theories about how Jon might get out of his Caesar predicament. The first was that after getting the Pink Letter, Mel and Selyse panic and burn Shireen to try and save/revive "Azor Ahai." This would then revive Jon Snow, the actual hero.

 

The second is that Stannis personally executes Theon at the weirwood near where his army is camped and that blood sacrifice combined with Bran's super mojo, helps Jon stay alive via transferrance into Ghost for the short-term. <- Based on what we learned from the first Theon chapter in Book 6.

 

 

Tonight's events makes the first theory less likely, but the sixth book would have to jump through some major hoops to get Stannis and Shireen together again AND put Stannis in a position where he would be willing to sacrifice her. For many book readers, if that did happen, it played into their Night's King theory (which I liked as a matter of character reversal and trope subversion).

Edited June 8, 2015 by Numbers of Westeros

[cozmeesah]

In the preview it looked like Jon was sitting at his desk with a roll of parchment and Sam asks what he's going to do. Could be Stannis' message from Davos or the pink letter.

[boomboom234]

"For all of you who are enjoying OUTLANDER, the marvelous adaptation of Diana Gabaldon's time travel novels that just finished its first season on STARZ... well, the show is terrific, but the books are even better (as is so often the case)"  Grrm posted this seven minutes after the episode ended I think its pretty clear where he stands

[Jim Shorts]

Even Noctis never went this crazy over the books and the movies.

[ShouldIBeHere]

HAHAHAHA!

 

 

This was so laughably awful.

 

Such poor storytelling with unearned emotions, violence and a crappy finale that should have been one of the best scenes in the show's entire history.

 

 

There will be a backlash about the sacrifice scene and rightfully so. When you burn a child at the stake and assassin one of your king characters while doing so you need a good reason. And have to earn it, for God's sake. 

 

 

They obviously cannot resist firing the hype-train by adding more shock. Poor. That universe and set-up deserved better writers.

 

 

I cannot wait for the hype to turn against that show (and to a certain degree, the books).

 

 

"When George first told us about this, it was one of those times that I remember looking at Dan, and going, god, that's so horrible, and it's so good, because it all comes together in a story sense. From the very first time we meet Stannis and Melisandre, they are sacrificing and talking about king's blood, and the power it contains, and it all leads to this, to the sacrificing of Shireen."

 

 

 

Bullshit.

Edited June 8, 2015 by ShouldIBeHere

[ShouldIBeHere]

Douple Post.

Edited June 8, 2015 by ShouldIBeHere

[boomboom234]

I'm quite tame compared to the majority head over to official book forum or reddit if you want to see you true freak outs