BO.com 100 Greatest Directors PRESENTATION

[Goffe]

Did you foget how hard it is for a foreign animation to get a share of the global market? Go check the popularity and box office of Persepolis or The Illusionist (France), Mary and Max (Australia), The Secret of Kells (Belgium/Ireland), Waltz With Bashir (Israel), Millenium Actress (Japan)...

these are niche as well.

 

 

 

All these movies were acclaimed, but there is no room for competition because american animations dominate the global market

there are acclaimed art movies and acclaimed mainstream movies 

 

 

. If there's one guy who succeeded in exporting animated movies, he is MIyazaki, some of his movies grossed $30m~$40m outside Japan.

lol no. Only two films grossed 30-40m and that's nothing to be proud of

 

 

 

Or check how many ratings Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke and Howl's Moving Castle have on IMDB, more than The Croods, Megamind or Rio, for example.

Scott Pilgrim has 197k votes on IMDB, that doesn't make Scott Pilgrim any less niche.

 

 

Miyazaki is only a niche director for people who think animations are about singing princesses and talking animals.

= GA

[Phil in the Blank]

Yes, I do. But surely me showing the accomplishments of some of the other directors who did not make this list doesn't hurt you. Surely the directors on this list won't be diminished from the meager accomplishments of a few directors that I am talking about.

 

Hey man, I was just paraphrasing what a wise man once told me

[JohnnY]

Yeah, most of the animations I mentioned are niche, but can't you realise that what makes them stuck in the niche category is the fact that foreign animations are eclipsed by american animations? And that's not because they aren't as good, that's because the masses are really comfortable with the idea that animated movies are cute and colourful and should provide some laughs and entertainment for kids. You know, the kind of Mc Donald's Happy Meal toy kind of thing.

 

And actually the last 3 movies Miyazaki directed grossed more than 30m outside Japan:

Spirited Away - 45m

Howl's Moving Castle - 44m

Ponyo - 37m

He didn't directed Arrietty, but it also got 35m from other markets.

 

It was after Princess Mononoke that he got worldwide attention and since then his works have been more and more accessible to non-japanese people. They are not too childish (like Curious George) or too mature (like Persepolis), they aren't hard to understand (Ghost in the Shell), aren't excessively artsy (Tripletts of Belleville) nor overly anime-like (Summer Wars).

 

Miyazaki creates great stories that could easily appeal to all ages anywhere. But foreign animators can't just throw cute 3D side-characters on people and expect to get world attention.

Edited February 13, 2014 by JohnnY

[rukaio101]

Before I start my brutal retorts, Goffe, I just need to check something. Are you claiming that it's only a certain niche of people (outside of Japan) that deliberately seek out Miyazaki films or are you claiming, like Walt Disney, that it's only a niche of people who consider them great movies. If the former then ignore the stuff below because I kind of agree (although I think that has more to do with a lack of marketing and wide releases than any particular disinterest by the GA). If the latter then... well... retorts are below.

 

these are niche as well.

So apparently the populations of all countries that aren't America simply count as 'niches'.

 

Good to see you guys haven't gotten an ego.

 

there are acclaimed art movies and acclaimed mainstream movies 

In Japan, Ghibli films are pretty mainstream. But then again, apparently, the entire population of Japan is just a 'niche'.

 

lol no. Only two films grossed 30-40m and that's nothing to be proud of

 

Considering none of Miyazaki's films have never had very wide releases in US cinemas (I think the biggest is something around 900), I'd say that's something to be pretty proud of. 

 

 

Scott Pilgrim has 197k votes on IMDB, that doesn't make Scott Pilgrim any less niche.

However, it does mean that people outside that target niche consider it a good movie as well.

 

 

= GA

So, via the same logic, would you consider Stanley Kubrick as only enjoyed by a 'niche' as well? None of his movies made all that much (except 2001) especially compared to most of Miyazaki's.

[Jessie]

Before I start my brutal retorts, Goffe, I just need to check something. Are you claiming that it's only a certain niche of people (outside of Japan) that deliberately seek out Miyazaki films or are you claiming, like Walt Disney, that it's only a niche of people who consider them great movies. If the former then ignore the stuff below because I kind of agree (although I think that has more to do with a lack of marketing and wide releases than any particular disinterest by the GA). If the latter then... well... retorts are below.

 

So apparently the populations of all countries that aren't America simply count as 'niches'.

 

Good to see you guys haven't gotten an ego.

 

In Japan, Ghibli films are pretty mainstream. But then again, apparently, the entire population of Japan is just a 'niche'.

 

Considering none of Miyazaki's films have never had very wide releases in US cinemas (I think the biggest is something around 900), I'd say that's something to be pretty proud of. 

 

 

However, it does mean that people outside that target niche consider it a good movie as well.

 

 

So, via the same logic, would you consider Stanley Kubrick as only enjoyed by a 'niche' as well? None of his movies made all that much (except 2001) especially compared to most of Miyazaki's.

 

Uh id say Scott Pilgrim is definitely Niche. I don't know a single person that have seen it to have enjoyed it. Its clear that its mostly geeks (the niche audience) that vote on IMDB explaining why it's rating is high. That doesn't mean the GA enjoyed it at all lol. Im not about to believe that people preferred Scott Pilgrim to the likes of Independence Day and Armageddon (the biggest films of their year) because IMDB says so.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jessie

[4815162342]

Scott Pilgrim is a niche movie I agree.

 

What Goffe, Walt, etc are confusing is what niche really means. It's not about how many people see the movie, it's about the accessibility of the movie. Most of Miyazaki's films, while drawing on some aspects of Japanese myth and culture, are still very accessible to worldwide audiences with their content, themes, etc. I fail to see how Porco Rosso, a film about an anthropomorphic pig fighter pilot, is less accessible than Ratatouille, a film about a rat who wants to be a chef. It's just because of the Pixar label and the easygoing CGI animation that Ratatouille "looks" more audience-friendly.

 

But because Miyazaki's films get little marketing and minor theatrical releases in the US, they only find a small audience, many of whom are already familiar with his work, because the general public is rarely made aware of the films.

Edited February 13, 2014 by 4815162342

[4815162342]

To go a bit further, Miyazaki's films are pretty similar in their content, maturity, accessibility, etc to Don Bluth's work in the 80s. None of which were niche at all, they were just under seen in comparison to the Disney animation juggernaut.

[DAR]

Even though some didn't make the list, it did inspire to check out a few films from directors like Powell and Pressburger.  Jules Dassin, Francois Truffat.

[Goffe]

Yeah, most of the animations I mentioned are niche, but can't you realise that what makes them stuck in the niche category is the fact that foreign animations are eclipsed by american animations? And that's not because they aren't as good, that's because the masses are really comfortable with the idea that animated movies are cute and colourful and should provide some laughs and entertainment for kids. You know, the kind of Mc Donald's Happy Meal toy kind of thing.

they are niche because people are comfortable with "colorful and cute" animted films. That's what I'm saying brow.

[Goffe]

Are you claiming that it's only a certain niche of people (outside of Japan) that deliberately seek out Miyazaki films

bingo!!

[Goffe]

Scott Pilgrim is a niche movie I agree.What Goffe, Walt, etc are confusing is what niche really means. It's not about how many people see the movie, it's about the accessibility of the movie. Most of Miyazaki's films, while drawing on some aspects of Japanese myth and culture, are still very accessible to worldwide audiences with their content, themes, etc.

Scott Pilgrim is not complex, its themes are universal, it has lots of action, etc. SP still is niche.

But because Miyazaki's films get little marketing and minor theatrical releases in the US, they only find a small audience, many of whom are already familiar with his work, because the general public is rarely made aware of the films.

if people wanted to see Miyazaki films (I'm not saying his films are bad), they would get high PTA, and consequently increasing the theater count

[4815162342]

Scott Pilgrim is also incredibly stylized and its general writing/dialogue/characters/content panders to the hipster crowd.

 

 

You consistently miss the points we make about WHY Miyazaki's films are not seen much in the US. It has nothing to do with niche. It has everything to do with a lack of awareness, marketing, and so forth.

Edited February 13, 2014 by 4815162342

[BadAtGender]

Here's the thing that confuses me about this whole discussion:

 

Is the fact that Miyazaki's films only appeal to a niche audience IN THE UNITED STATES something that keeps him from being a great director?

 

Because if so, I really wonder what the hell the criteria to be great is. Sergio Leone had some modest success, but never had a breakout film. Few would argue that he's not a great director. Akira Kurosawa never had a big hit in the States, but I think most people agree he was a fantastic director. Shoot, Orson Welles never had a huge hit, AFAIK... (Checking, yeah, it looks like only The Stranger was a success).

 

An anecdote: My grandparents don't watch a lot of movies. My grandmother will very occasionally go see a film with a friend, but my grandfather basically watches Fox News and little else. I have on occasion shown them and the rest of the family an animated movie or something that I think they'd like. Usually Pixar or Disney. I showed them How to Train Your Dragon recently, which was a good success. They are, I think, pretty firmly entrenched as typical audience members who go for mainstream, non-niche animated fare, even if they don't seek any movies out.

 

And yet, to this day, they still ask me on occasion if there's anything new from that Japanese director, ever since I showed them Spirited Away. They may not remember his name, but they know who he is, and they know that he makes great films that they'll enjoy.

[Goffe]

Is the fact that Miyazaki's films only appeal to a niche audience IN THE WORLD something that keeps him from being a great director?

fify Edited February 13, 2014 by Goffe Rises

[rukaio101]

fify

The population of Japan does not count as a 'niche audience'.

[BadAtGender]

fify

 

Regardless, is that what you are arguing? Does niche in ANY sense mean that a director can't be great?

[Goffe]

The population of Japan does not count as a 'niche audience'.

the world has 7b people, so yes.

[Goffe]

Does niche in ANY sense mean that a director can't be great?

no, I didn't say that, niche directors can still be considered great.

[Dementeleus]

Even though some didn't make the list, it did inspire to check out a few films from directors like Powell and Pressburger.  Jules Dassin, Francois Truffat.

 

This should be a standing order for everyone here:

 

Look at the final Top 100 list. (Heck, if you want to, include the runners up). Are there directors there whom you haven't seen a single movie they directed? Fix that, seek them out, and watch. Lisa's already included a few of each director's most famous/infamous movies for you, so that makes it easy.

[Jessie]

Scott Pilgrim is also incredibly stylized and its general writing/dialogue/characters/content panders to the hipster crowd. You consistently miss the points we make about WHY Miyazaki's films are not seen much in the US. It has nothing to do with niche. It has everything to do with a lack of awareness, marketing, and so forth.

Do you really think a Miyazaki film will pull in a large audience if it were marketed in the States though? There's a reason they don't push it in America, they don't think it will take off.