rukaio101 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 90+% of filmgoers? I would like to see those box office numbers. Unless you're saying that 90% of the niche audience that sees the films in theaters likes them. But, I think you're saying 90% of the people that go see films, go to see and enjoy Miyazaki films. I'm saying 90+% of people who watch Miyazaki films enjoy them. And I suppose that 'niche audience that only likes Miyazaki films' just happens to include near every critic on RT. In addition, it's kinda ridiculous to dismiss the entire wide audience of people who see Miyazaki films as a 'niche'. I could just as easily call all the people who go to see Toy Story a 'niche audience' and it would make about as much sense. I'm not sure what you're trying to show me. I clicked on that link, but it only took me to a list of grosses from Japan. I know you're not trying to show me that a Japanese director is popular in Japan. However, either that's the wrong link or I just don't know what you're trying to show me. So apparently, the population of Japan counts as a 'niche audience' does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Disney Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'm saying 90+% of people who watch Miyazaki films enjoy them. And I suppose that 'niche audience that only likes Miyazaki films' just happens to include near every critic on RT. In addition, it's kinda ridiculous to dismiss the entire wide audience of people who see Miyazaki films as a 'niche'. I could just as easily call all the people who go to see Toy Story a 'niche audience' and it would make about as much sense. So apparently, the population of Japan counts as a 'niche audience' does it? You're telling me that 90% of people who go to see a film by a director like that film? I am shocked. I imagine 90% of people who go see Tyler Perry films like those as well. I'd still describe that as a niche audience. You can call the Toy Story audience whatever you'd like. The fact is that it's a huge mover at the box office. There is no way you can call that niche unless you're changing the definition of the word. The audience that has seen Toy Story is massive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I think you guys are completely wrong about John Lasseter being a tech guy, he was first an foremost an animator, an artist, a lover of animation and storytelling through animation and he had a dream at the end of the 70's with THE tech guy of Pixar Ed Catmull ( from MIT) : doing an animated movie with computers. Look at the documentary about the story of Pixar, very compelling stuff. All the directors at Pixar would have never existed without Lasseter's guidance and advices on storytelling. He is de facto one of the most important directors of all time. Edited February 13, 2014 by The Futurist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukaio101 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You're telling me that 90% of people who go to see a film by a director like that film? I am shocked. I imagine 90% of people who go see Tyler Perry films like those as well. I'd still describe that as a niche audience. You can call the Toy Story audience whatever you'd like. The fact is that it's a huge mover at the box office. There is no way you can call that niche unless you're changing the definition of the word. The audience that has seen Toy Story is massive. My God! The Double Standards meter is off the clock! I haven't seen blatant hypocrisy like this since Movieman's last alt! Allow me to spell out your current logic. Lots of people see and love Miyazaki's work = He only appeals to a specific niche audience that's made up of all those people. Lots of people see and love Toy Story = They couldn't possibly be a niche audience! Now you're just changing the definition of the word! So the lesson learnt today people is that no matter how beloved or respected you are in the industry, unless your film also makes Toy Story level box office numbers, you work apparently can only be enjoyed by a certain niche of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Gary Scott Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Billy Wilder, Frank Capra, and Howard Hawks (among many others) didn't invent or innovate any new technology either. Should they not be considered all-time greats?who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Miyazaki does not make films for a niche audience. Almost all of his films are accessible to the general population. It's just that there is a general stigma against anime/etc in the US which means that his films are not advertised to the masses in the US, even though his films have about as much in common with the stereotypical Japan anime as Pixar's output has. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Old Tele Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 who?Face. Palm. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAR Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You think you know a guy and then that happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAtGender Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I suppose my point about Lasseter is that he's a lot like George Lucas. Lucas was certainly a director early on, but what his career became was something that changed the nature of film entirely. He's hugely influential, but I don't think that makes him a great director. Lasseter's the same (although I'd argue the quality of his direction is a bit above Lucas, relative to his peers.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goffe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) My God! The Double Standards meter is off the clock! I haven't seen blatant hypocrisy like this since Movieman's last alt! Allow me to spell out your current logic. Lots of people see and love Miyazaki's work = He only appeals to a specific niche audience that's made up of all those people. Lots of people see and love Toy Story = They couldn't possibly be a niche audience! Now you're just changing the definition of the word! So the lesson learnt today people is that no matter how beloved or respected you are in the industry, unless your film also makes Toy Story level box office numbers, you work apparently can only be enjoyed by a certain niche of people. what's so hard to understand? on a global scale, yeah Miyazaki films are niche, it's for film educated people and anime fans (outside of Japan) Arrietty 87%Poppy Hill 93%Ponyo 88%Howl's 82%Spirited 86% the percentage is how much WW gross came from Japan. Edited February 13, 2014 by Goffe Rises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goffe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 FULL LIST 1. Steven Spielberg2. Stanley Kubrick3. Martin Scorsese4. Alfred Hitchcock5. Quentin Tarantino6. Ethan & Joel Coen7. Francis Ford Coppola8. Christopher Nolan9. James Cameron10. David Fincher11. Akira Kurosawa12. Ridley Scott13. David Lean14. Billy Wilder15. Sergio Leone16. Clint Eastwood17. Robert Zemeckis18. Roman Polanski19. Hayao Miyazaki20. Peter Jackson21. Orson Welles22. Ingmar Bergman23. Alfonso Cuaron24. Sidney Lumet25. Paul Thomas Anderson26. John Ford27. Michael Mann28. Federico Fellini29. Ang Lee30. Tim Burton31. Fritz Lang32. Howard Hawks33. Woody Allen34. Sam Mendes35. David Lynch36. John Carpenter37. George Lucas38. Wes Craven39. Charlie Chaplin40. Ron Howard41. Michael Curtiz42. John Huston43. Terrence Malick44. Oliver Stone45. Milos Forman46. Lana & Andy Wachowski47. Danny Boyle48. Frank Capra49. Sam Raimi50. Darren Aronofsky51. Brian De Palma52. Steven Soderbergh53. Victor Felming54. Elia Kazan55. Terry Gilliam56. Brad Bird57. Jean-Luc Godard58. David Paul Cronenberg59. John Wilden Hughes, Jr.60. Andrei Arsenyevich Tarkovsky61. Peter Lindsay Weir62. Bryan Jay Singer63. Walter Elias "Walt" Disney64. Gregor "Gore" Verbinski65. Sergei Mikhailovich Eisenstein66. Jeffrey Jacob "J. J." Abrams67. François Roland Truffaut68. Paul Verhoeven69. William Friedkin70. Kathryn Ann Bigelow71. Michael Haneke72. Park Chan-wook73. Mel Brooks74. William Wyler75. Mel Colm-Cille Gerard Gibson76. Robert Bernard Altman77. David Samuel "Sam" Peckinpah78. Edgar Howard Wright79. Shelton Jackson "Spike" Lee80. Wesley Wales "Wes" Anderson81. Lars Von Trier82. David Llewelyn Wark "D. W." Griffith83. Lewis Milestone84. Frank Darabont85. Richard Stuart Linklater86. Sydney Irwin Pollack87. Bernardo Bertolucci88. Guillermo del Toro Gómez89. Robert Jonathan Demme90. Richard Donner91. Mark Anthony "Baz" Luhrmann92. Paul Greengrass93. Alexander Payne94. Michael Benjamin Bay95. Robert Reiner96. Ivan Reitman97. Andrew Stanton98. Werner Herzog Stipetic99. Wolfgang Reitherman100. Sylvester Gardenzio Stallone 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc2002 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ha Stallone made into the list. Take that Arnold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumer Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I suspect Stallone made the list primarily because of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc2002 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I suspect Stallone made the list primarily because of me. Could've been much higher if Algren was still around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) what's so hard to understand? on a global scale, yeah Miyazaki films are niche, it's for film educated people and anime fans (outside of Japan)They're niche not because of their nature or their appeal, but because of the lack of marketing and general audience understanding. Ask the average US person what they know of Japanese animation and you'll likely get an answer about either schoolgirls or tentacles. That's part of a big stigma to overcome.Miyazaki's films are not anime, not really. The style of animation is drawn from the Japan school of 2D animation compared to that created by Disney and refined by Don Bluth et al, but the actual content and substance of the films is far more like any US studio film than actual Japanese anime.I'd argue that many of Miyazaki's films are more accessible than some of Pixar's own output, like Ratatouille or WALL-E (which made bank because of the Pixar brand and name association). Edited February 13, 2014 by 4815162342 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luna Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 here was my list for what it's worth: 7 points lars von trier 5 points stanley kubrick david lynch 4 points ingmar bergman werner herzog akira kurosawa abbas kiarostami coens terrence malick jean-luc godard 3 points federico fellini andrei tarkovsky robert altman fritz lang john cassavetes bela tarr gaspar noe robert bresson alfred hitchcock roman polanski 2 points f. w. murnau yasujiro ozu sidney lumet david fincher alain resnais carl theodor dreyer krzysztof kieslowski jean-pierre melville david cronenberg martin scorsese satyajit ray orson welles christopher nolan elem klimov giorgos lanthimos jacques tati cristian mingiu pier paolo pasolini asghar farhadi eric rohmer michelangelo antonioni bernado bertolucci errol morris harmony korine baz luhrmann jacques demy abel gance claude lanzmann mike leigh yimou zhang 1 point david lean hayao miyazaki howard hawks jim jarmusch buster keaton steven soderbergh jan svankmajer brian de palma peter weir rainer werner fassbinder sergei m. eisenstein lewis milestone paul thomas anderson chris marker francis ford coppola henri-georges clouzot wes anderson charles laughton billy wilder wim wenders spike jonze andrzej wajda luis bunuel kenji mizoguchi john huston lynne ramsay nicolas roeg sam peckinpah francois truffaut milos forman alfonso cuaron darren aronofsky ken loach luchino visconti alejandro jodorowsky terry gilliam milos forman marco ferreri dusan makavejev godfrey reggio costa-gavras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Panda Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 FULL LIST 1. Steven Spielberg2. Stanley Kubrick3. Martin Scorsese4. Alfred Hitchcock5. Quentin Tarantino6. Ethan & Joel Coen7. Francis Ford Coppola8. Christopher Nolan9. James Cameron10. David Fincher11. Akira Kurosawa12. Ridley Scott13. David Lean14. Billy Wilder15. Sergio Leone16. Clint Eastwood17. Robert Zemeckis18. Roman Polanski19. Hayao Miyazaki20. Peter Jackson21. Orson Welles22. Ingmar Bergman23. Alfonso Cuaron24. Sidney Lumet25. Paul Thomas Anderson26. John Ford27. Michael Mann28. Federico Fellini29. Ang Lee30. Tim Burton31. Fritz Lang32. Howard Hawks33. Woody Allen34. Sam Mendes35. David Lynch36. John Carpenter37. George Lucas38. Wes Craven39. Charlie Chaplin40. Ron Howard41. Michael Curtiz42. John Huston43. Terrence Malick44. Oliver Stone45. Milos Forman46. Lana & Andy Wachowski47. Danny Boyle48. Frank Capra49. Sam Raimi50. Darren Aronofsky51. Brian De Palma52. Steven Soderbergh53. Victor Felming54. Elia Kazan55. Terry Gilliam56. Brad Bird57. Jean-Luc Godard58. David Paul Cronenberg59. John Wilden Hughes, Jr.60. Andrei Arsenyevich Tarkovsky61. Peter Lindsay Weir62. Bryan Jay Singer63. Walter Elias "Walt" Disney64. Gregor "Gore" Verbinski65. Sergei Mikhailovich Eisenstein66. Jeffrey Jacob "J. J." Abrams67. François Roland Truffaut68. Paul Verhoeven69. William Friedkin70. Kathryn Ann Bigelow71. Michael Haneke72. Park Chan-wook73. Mel Brooks74. William Wyler75. Mel Colm-Cille Gerard Gibson76. Robert Bernard Altman77. David Samuel "Sam" Peckinpah78. Edgar Howard Wright79. Shelton Jackson "Spike" Lee80. Wesley Wales "Wes" Anderson81. Lars Von Trier82. David Llewelyn Wark "D. W." Griffith83. Lewis Milestone84. Frank Darabont85. Richard Stuart Linklater86. Sydney Irwin Pollack87. Bernardo Bertolucci88. Guillermo del Toro Gómez89. Robert Jonathan Demme90. Richard Donner91. Mark Anthony "Baz" Luhrmann92. Paul Greengrass93. Alexander Payne94. Michael Benjamin Bay95. Robert Reiner96. Ivan Reitman97. Andrew Stanton98. Werner Herzog Stipetic99. Wolfgang Reitherman100. Sylvester Gardenzio Stallone The fact that Orson Welles is 21 is kind of sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riczhang Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) How did Pasolini miss? He showed up on quite a few lists. Edited February 13, 2014 by riczhang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumer Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The fact that Orson Welles is 21 is kind of sad.Not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnY Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure what you're trying to show me. I clicked on that link, but it only took me to a list of grosses from Japan. I know you're not trying to show me that a Japanese director is popular in Japan. However, either that's the wrong link or I just don't know what you're trying to show me. what's so hard to understand? on a global scale, yeah Miyazaki films are niche, it's for film educated people and anime fans (outside of Japan) Arrietty 87%Poppy Hill 93%Ponyo 88%Howl's 82%Spirited 86% the percentage is how much WW gross came from Japan. Did you foget how hard it is for a foreign animation to get a share of the global market? Go check the popularity and box office of Persepolis or The Illusionist (France), Mary and Max (Australia), The Secret of Kells (Belgium/Ireland), Waltz With Bashir (Israel), Millenium Actress (Japan)... All these movies were acclaimed, but there is no room for competition because american animations dominate the global market. If there's one guy who succeeded in exporting animated movies, he is MIyazaki, some of his movies grossed $30m~$40m outside Japan. Or check how many ratings Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke and Howl's Moving Castle have on IMDB, more than The Croods, Megamind or Rio, for example. Miyazaki is only a niche director for people who think animations are about singing princesses and talking animals. Edited February 13, 2014 by JohnnY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
