The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Willowra]

Loki S2 episodes will release at Thursday 6 p.m. PT/9 p.m. ET. What would be its impact on Thursday previews of The Marvels?

Edited September 18, 2023 by Willowra

[ChipDerby]

38 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Loki S2 episodes will release at Thursday 6 p.m. PT/9 p.m. ET. What would be its impact on Thursday previews of The Marvels?

 

None

[Liiviig 1998]

3 hours ago, ChipDerby said:

Among legacy characters, the MCU has 6 $750 mil WW films since Endgame. Prior to Endgame (minus Avengers films), the MCU had 7 $750 mil WW films.

Your literally cherry picking statistics . You literally substract the avengers films like those didn't involve " legacy characters"... 

 

Even by your logic  infinity saga still slaps current phase 11 to 5  750m+ W

FFH yes it technically after EG but still part of infinity saga.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChipDerby]

9 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Your literally cherry picking statistics . You literally substract the avengers films like those didn't involve " legacy characters"... 

 

Even by your logic  infinity saga still slaps current phase 11 to 5  750m+ W

FFH yes it technically after EG but still part of infinity saga.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody is cherry picking anything, but you cannot include the Avengers films if we're being serious, as there has yet to be an Avengers film for this "Saga".

 

32 Total Films, 4 Avengers films excluded means 28 films to review

From Iron Man through Endgame, there are 18 films, since Endgame, there have been 10

8 films (44%) pre-Endgame made $750+ mil WW, 6 films (60%) post-Endgame made $750+ mil WW

 

It's simple math my dude.

[Bob Train]

46 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Nobody is cherry picking anything, but you cannot include the Avengers films if we're being serious, as there has yet to be an Avengers film for this "Saga".

 

32 Total Films, 4 Avengers films excluded means 28 films to review

From Iron Man through Endgame, there are 18 films, since Endgame, there have been 10

8 films (44%) pre-Endgame made $750+ mil WW, 6 films (60%) post-Endgame made $750+ mil WW

 

It's simple math my dude.

$750m is an arbitrary threshold. In terms of non-Avengers billion grossers, 5/18 (28%) made $1b in Infinity Saga, whereas since then only 1/9 (11%) has.

 

If you drop that down to $500m, 15/18 (83%) did in Infinity Saga, compared to 5/9 (55%)  since then.

 

None of these numbers really mean anything as they are arbitrary, cherry-picked thresholds.

 

It's obvious Marvel fatigue is real as the last 4 MCU movies in a row failed to surpass their predecessors WW. The only one where China was a factor was Love and Thunder, even then it possibly wouldn't have beaten it if released anyway.

 

During Infinity Saga every MCU sequel surpassed it's predecessor WW except Age of Ultron.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Bob Train

[Liiviig 1998]

1 hour ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Nobody is cherry picking anything, but you cannot include the Avengers films if we're being serious, as there has yet to be an Avengers film for this "Saga".

 

32 Total Films, 4 Avengers films excluded means 28 films to review

From Iron Man through Endgame, there are 18 films, since Endgame, there have been 10

8 films (44%) pre-Endgame made $750+ mil WW, 6 films (60%) post-Endgame made $750+ mil WW

 

It's simple math my dude.

No it's not .

 

Your original post you say the MCU after endgame is more successful percentagewise than prior endgame.

 

You just cut out the avengers movies  for reasons yet they are part of MCU prior endgame . Whether this phases don't have avengers  movies is not relevant to the argumentation. 

 

Point of argumentation is btn movies prior to EG and after EG that have been actually released.

 

Your ignoring other important stats like the flops and movies that just broke even.

 

That is cherry picking. Your just choosing the stats that only verify your claims instead of getting all the available stats to come to a conclusion.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Liiviig 1998

[ChipDerby]

1 hour ago, Bob Train said:

$750m is an arbitrary threshold. In terms of non-Avengers billion grossers, 5/18 (28%) made $1b in Infinity Saga, whereas since then only 1/9 (11%) has.

 

If you drop that down to $500m, 15/18 (83%) did in Infinity Saga, compared to 5/9 (55%)  since then.

 

None of these numbers really mean anything as they are arbitrary, cherry-picked thresholds.

 

It's obvious Marvel fatigue is real as the last 4 MCU movies in a row failed to surpass their predecessors WW. The only one where China was a factor was Love and Thunder, even then it possibly wouldn't have beaten it if released anyway.

 

During Infinity Saga every MCU sequel surpassed it's predecessor WW except Age of Ultron.

 

Is everyone just removing COVID form their brains? 

[ChipDerby]

41 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

No it's not .

 

Your original post you say the MCU after endgame is more successful percentagewise than prior endgame.

 

You just cut out the avengers movies  for reasons yet they are part of MCU prior endgame . Whether this phases don't have avengers  movies is not relevant to the argumentation. 

 

Point of argumentation is btn movies prior to EG and after EG that have been actually released.

 

Your ignoring other important stats like the flops and movies that just broke even.

 

That is cherry picking. Your just choosing the stats that only verify your claims instead of getting all the available stats to come to a conclusion.

 

 

 

 

It HAS been more successful. I've literally proven it with facts and numbers. And if you realistically compare this as a restart to the entire MCU, as it is a new saga, it's wildly more successful than the first 9-10 films in the MCU. Unless for some reason you want to compare a phase with no Avengers films to a phase with... all the Avengers films. In fact, I'd say YOU'RE the ones that are cherry picking to act like the Infinity Saga was just some run of the mill series that didn't break every record possible.

 

It's very clear to any normal person that the MCU is more or less starting over with a new cast of characters, in a new world of box office, specifically internationally.

[Bob Train]

14 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

 

It's very clear to any normal person that the MCU is more or less starting over with a new cast of characters, in a new world of box office, specifically internationally.

Erm...Is it though? The last 5 MCU movies have all been sequels to other MCU movies, mostly with the same cast of characters as well.

[ChipDerby]

1 minute ago, Bob Train said:

Erm...Is it though? The last 5 MCU movies have all been sequels to other MCU movies, mostly with the same cast of characters as well.

 

Hence the mention of COVID and the entire box office industry having changed since them. If you want to play dumb, here you go:

 

NWH - Obviously increased massively. For obvious reasons.

DSMOM - Obviously increased massively. For obvious reasons. Despite it not being good.

TLOT - Fell about 10%, which can probably be explained away because of the Intl drops for Hollywood films.

BPWF - Fell 36% because the STAR OF THE FILM DIED (also, Intl drops)

AMQ - Fell 25% because it was awful

GOTG3 - Fell 3%

 

So I'm curious, in what WORLD would be the reason for this film to drop MORE than BPWF? It makes no logical sense. A 36% drop gets it to $722 mil WW. That should be seen as the minimum the film should do.

[JustLurking]

one day I will understand why people harp so much on MoM's script yet somehow NWH gets a pass despite most of the film being pure nonsense

[TheDude391]

35 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

one day I will understand why people harp so much on MoM's script yet somehow NWH gets a pass despite most of the film being pure nonsense

Nostalgia, simple as.

[The GOAT]

Since Endgame, The MCU films that I would constitute as a good movies are GOTG3 and No Way Home. And No Way Home is full on nostalgia bait. The rest are absolutely rubbish. Black Widow, Shang Chi, ETERNALS 😴, Doctor Strange 2, Thor 4, Black Panther 2, Antman 3.  

Edited September 18, 2023 by The GOAT

[Mojoguy]

24 minutes ago, The GOAT said:

Since Endgame, The MCU films that I would constitute as a good movies are GOTG3 and No Way Home. And No Way Home is full on nostalgia bait. The rest are absolutely rubbish. Black Widow, Shang Chi, ETERNALS 😴, Doctor Strange 2, Thor 4, Black Panther 2, Antman 3.  

I wouldn't call all them rubbish, but I have zero desire to see some of those movies ever again. But I can say the same for many DC movies.

[Bob Train]

2 hours ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Is everyone just removing COVID form their brains? 

Quantumania, Guardians 3 failed to pass their predecessors because of COVID?

Edited September 18, 2023 by Bob Train

[ChipDerby]

12 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Quantumania, Guardians 3 failed to pass their predecessors because of COVID?

 

Yes? Unless you're here to claim the box office is back to pre-2020 levels.

[Bob Train]

2 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Yes? Unless you're here to claim the box office is back to pre-2020 levels.

For big franchises/horror, yes.

 

For dramas/comedies/adult-skewing fare absolutely not.

[HummingLemon]

@ChipDerby

 

COVID isn't why Quantumania made less than Ant-Man 2. It opened much higher and tanked because of terrible reception

 

And Guardians 3 making less than Vol 2 isn't because of COVID, it's because of brand decline. It would passed Vol 2 domestically and worldwide if it came out in May 2022. The general hype and positivity in the MCU after No Way Home vs after Quantumania was absolutely massive. And now even The Marvels might set up to be an incoming disaster.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by HummingLemon

[ChipDerby]

1 hour ago, HummingLemon said:

@ChipDerby

 

COVID isn't why Quantumania made less than Ant-Man 2. It opened much higher and tanked because of terrible reception

 

And Guardians 3 making less than Vol 2 isn't because of COVID, it's because of brand decline. It would passed Vol 2 domestically and worldwide if it came out in May 2022. The general hype and positivity in the MCU after No Way Home vs after Quantumania was absolutely massive. And now even The Marvels might set up to be an incoming disaster.

 

 

Then refute the numbers with fucking numbers and not your feelings. Find me one measly little inkling that The Marvels will drop more than Wakanda Forever, which lost its fucking star and only dropped 36%. Come on. Do it.

[Bob Train]

Holland Spider-Man 4 is the next CBM to make $1b imo.  

 

Sony needs to start making Tobey Spidey 4 with Raimi directing and TASM 3 instead of whatever Madame Web/El Muerto/Kraven crap they are trying to churn out now