The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Mojoguy]

4 minutes ago, Kon said:

 

Aquaman is likely the superhero movie with the biggest female audience. However, it wasn't a girlie movie.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure The Marvels will be so attractive for a female audience.

Jason Momoa wet and shirtless is going to get that female audience for sure. James Wan knows how to attract that audience.

[ThomasNicole]

2 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

Jason Momoa wet and shirtless is going to get that female audience for sure. James Wan knows how to attract that audience.

He gave us the saw doll, the nun and Annabelle … all of them super popular costumes for Halloween and drag queens. 
 

He gave us Jason Momoa shot like a shirtless god. 
 

And he gave us the most hysterical movie of the decade with Malignant with Gabriel which is a big diva tbh
 

I can’t think of a bigger ally than James Wan working in Hollywood in this big scale. 

[Sckathian]

Not really for this thread but I would have more confidence in Aqua 2 if they were bothering to push it.

 

The Marvels is dying due to disinterest. 

[Eric Lasagna]

Moderation

 

I know we're past this, but I was asleep when we did our usual "grr critics bad" routine. It's frustrating some folks can't help but help themselves, and my sleep schedule makes it impossible for me to stop it. But better late than never.

 

I wanted to remind people, yet again, that we aren't doing this whole "Funko critics" stuff, this "critics have an agenda" stuff, and especially not this "soy" stuff. That's a bad dogwhistle that we don't need on this forum. Do this again, and you will be threadbanned.

 

And if some of you really have a bone to pick because people are being too nice to a movie most of you likelyy haven't seen, you can do this routine somewhere else. We're not the only place on the Internet where you can talk about Marvel and movie critics.

[TheFlatLannister]

1 hour ago, Mojoguy said:

Don't know why you think it would be so low. There doesn't seem to be anything offensively bad about Marvels.

OS absolutely hates this film. DOM and OS reception won't be too far off

[TheFlatLannister]

11 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

Not really for this thread but I would have more confidence in Aqua 2 if they were bothering to push it.

 

The Marvels is dying due to disinterest. 

Aquaman is cooked...

 

1. DCEU is dead and the hardcore fans have already exited the franchise (as seen from Shazam 2/ Flash)

2. I don't think WB has any faith in the quality of Aquaman (Insiders leak are dreadful) 

3. CBMs are lowkey DOA in China now

4. OS is giving up on CBMs

 

The only saving grace is the Chirstmas szn which will help its legs 

[Zakiyyah6]

The overseas reception is pretty bad so far. The RT score doesn't change that fact. The RT score won't change anything one way or the other because it isn't high enough nor is it low enough. 

[John Marston]

Just now, TheFlatLannister said:

Aquaman is cooked...

 

1. DCEU is dead and the hardcore fans have already exited the franchise (as seen from Shazam 2/ Flash)

2. I don't think WB has any faith in the quality of Aquaman (Insiders leak are dreadful) 

3. CBMs are lowkey DOA in China now

4. OS is giving up on CBMs

 

The only saving grace is the Chirstmas szn which will help its legs 

Aquaman has a likable lead and a director that knows how to make a crowd pleaser. I think it will surprise 

[Zakiyyah6]

This isn't a DC thread. It's not the Joker 2 thread and it isn't the Aquaman 2 thread. 

[TheFlatLannister]

1 minute ago, John Marston said:

Aquaman has a likable lead and a director that knows how to make a crowd pleaser. I think it will surprise 

I don't think a charismatic lead and okay-ish reviews cuts it anymore. CBMs have to be great for people to go out and see them. Post covid, all of the successful CBMs have been strongly reviewed films (Except MoM but that was fueled by cameos)

 

I could be wrong and Aquaman 2 does something crazy like $1B 😂

[Eric Lasagna]

Moderation

 

Yeah, what @Zakiyyah6 said.

[Hypercortical]

56 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

But that’s the thing … Barbie is a girlie movie that actually made girls and women engaged with it. I saw the movie 3 times and most of the audience was women and gay people, i know a lot of people with similar experiences. 
 

I think the problem with The Marvels is a problem that surrounds the whole MCU: is a man’s franchise. 
 

The first movie despite all the hate, is a very masculine movie. With it’s somewhat lavish cinematography, the always angry super strong badass woman, bud cop structure with Fury, military aesthetic … it’s a movie for woman that was made by design to please man. I mean, it worked, it was a big hit and most of the audience was male. 
 

Now The Marvels otherwise looks like a girlie movie. Bright, colorful, with a variety range of moods and emotions, the girl power and sorority themes etc. It was made for woman, there’s a clearly dissonance in reviews written by woman and man for this movie already as well.
 

The problem: Marvel just can’t make woman interested in it, it’s a historical problem in this franchise. Most of the audience unlike Barbie will be male and they’ll probably hate it because it’s not really made for them and in my experience, straight man usually have a hard time liking something that doesn’t put their preferences on top. 

I saw a critic for 'The Marvels' mention that 'Captain Marvel' was actually a more feminine movie than a lot of other MCU films, and I agree. Carol's character arc is one that's much more familiar to women than men to the extent that a lot of men who talk about the film don't even recognize that carol has a character arc, when in fact she basically has the same character arc as Rapunzel from Tangled. it's a story about a character learning to trust her own instincts and ability to reject a gaslighting abuser who pretends to be a protector/mentor, but really wants to use her for their own selfish reasons. I'm sure The Marvels is even more feminine, as many critics have been noting. But this time, not just thematically, but aesthetically too.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Hypercortical

[Bob Train]

1 hour ago, BadOlCatSylvester said:

I can see the goofiness give the audience Love and Thunder flashbacks and causing them to recoil on a level not seen since Batman v Superman.

It already had a disadvantage there when they finalized 2 out of the 3 leads to be women of color, as movies starring them tend to take a hit in those territories.

This argument doesn't make any sense. Fast and Furious is one of the biggest franchises overseas and has like 2 white people in it.

[Hypercortical]

3 minutes ago, Hypercortical said:

I saw a critic for 'The Marvels' mention that 'Captain Marvel' was actually a more feminine movie than a lot of other MCU films, and I agree. Carol's character arc is one that's much more familiar to women than men to the extent that a lot of men who talk about the film don't even recognize that carol has a character arc, when in fact she basically has the same character arc as Rapunzel from Tangled. it's a story about a character learning to trust her own instincts and ability to reject a gaslighting abuser who pretends to be a protector/mentor, but really wants to use her for their own selfish reasons. I'm sure The Marvels is even more feminine, as many critics have been noting. But this time, not just thematically, but aesthetically too.

additionally, This was not a particularly masculine way for a character to triumphantly assert their identity at the climax of the film while facing against their worst foe. This shot is something the editor of the film gushed about in the Captain Marvel episode of MPower on disney+ (which is really good, I reccomend it.)

[cyberduck]

5 hours ago, Reed121 said:

The RT score doesn’t matter now. 50 or 60 won’t stop what is about to occur

62 baby and rising 

[Arlborn]

58 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

But that’s the thing … Barbie is a girlie movie that actually made girls and women engaged with it. I saw the movie 3 times and most of the audience was women and gay people, i know a lot of people with similar experiences. 
 

I think the problem with The Marvels is a problem that surrounds the whole MCU: is a man’s franchise. 
 

The first movie despite all the hate, is a very masculine movie. With it’s somewhat lavish cinematography, the always angry super strong badass woman, bud cop structure with Fury, military aesthetic … it’s a movie for woman that was made by design to please man. I mean, it worked, it was a big hit and most of the audience was male. 
 

Now The Marvels otherwise looks like a girlie movie. Bright, colorful, with a variety range of moods and emotions, the girl power and sorority themes etc. It was made for woman, there’s a clearly dissonance in reviews written by woman and man for this movie already as well.
 

The problem: Marvel just can’t make woman interested in it, it’s a historical problem in this franchise. Most of the audience unlike Barbie will be male and they’ll probably hate it because it’s not really made for them and in my experience, straight man usually have a hard time liking something that doesn’t put their preferences on top. 

Going by what some RT critics are saying about the movie and going by the difference in general perception of the movie by critics depending on their gender, I can believe what you are saying is a big part of it.

Women seem to be liking it more, but most of the audience going to watch CBMs is male.

[ThomasNicole]

6 minutes ago, Hypercortical said:

I saw a critic for 'The Marvels' mention that 'Captain Marvel' was actually a more feminine movie than a lot of other MCU films, and I agree. Carol's character arc is one that's much more familiar to women than men to the extent that a lot of men who talk about the film don't even recognize that carol has a character arc, when in fact she basically has the same character arc as Rapunzel from Tangled. it's a story about a character learning to trust her own instincts and ability to reject a gaslighting abuser who pretends to be a protector/mentor, but really wants to use her for their own selfish reasons. I'm sure The Marvels is even more feminine, as many critics have been noting. But this time, not just thematically, but aesthetically too.

Agreed, it’s somewhat impossible to put a female in front of a movie and doesn’t ended up having a feminine movie at least when it comes to the emotion. I just feel that this was a concern for Marvel so they create a very masculine plot structure and aesthetic. 
 

It worked but i think the movie suffers from not knowing exactly what it want to be. This time being a sequel to a billionaire movie they probably felt they could let the creatives really decides that it wants to be a proud female movie, and in this sense is kinda sad what is happening. 
 

Not that the reception itself is unfair, i didn’t saw the movie, but you can sense a pattern that everytime Hollywood only let minorities being actual part of the projects when it’s too late and nobody cares anymore that much.
 

 

[Zakiyyah6]

27 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Agreed, it’s somewhat impossible to put a female in front of a movie and doesn’t ended up having a feminine movie at least when it comes to the emotion. I just feel that this was a concern for Marvel so they create a very masculine plot structure and aesthetic. 
 

It worked but i think the movie suffers from not knowing exactly what it want to be. This time being a sequel to a billionaire movie they probably felt they could let the creatives really decides that it wants to be a proud female movie, and in this sense is kinda sad what is happening. 
 

Not that the reception itself is unfair, i didn’t saw the movie, but you can sense a pattern that everytime Hollywood only let minorities being actual part of the projects when it’s too late and nobody cares anymore that much.
 

 

And that last paragraph is why I hate how much credit people gave Marvel for its diversity. They waited until the last minute, 10 years in to do these films. They were not ahead of the curve and I will never give them that credit. 

[Hypercortical]

3 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

And that last paragraph is why I hate how much credit people gave Marvel for its diversity. They waited until the last minute, 10 years in to do these films. They were not ahead of the curve and I will never give them that credit. 

I mean, that seems like the right approach to me. If there is mainstream resistance to something that you want to normalize, you can't just start from the bottom pushing that thing and climb to the top. You'll get nowhere in terms of both business development *and* social justice. Instead you Develop a powerful platform, and then start using that platform to make mainstream audiences give their attention to stuff they normally would not.

If you don't build a mainstream platform first, all you'll end up doing is preaching to the choir 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Hypercortical

[Zakiyyah6]

Yeah, I'm not changing my opinion. Thanks for your input though.