The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[ChipDerby]

17 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I dont think villains are nearly as important as the heroes in cases like this. When you have a big team of heroes it's fine for the villain to be less complex. Kamala dealing with meeting her lifelong hero for the first time is much more important to the story than the bad guy 

 

Will make a great movie. But, again, IMO, will dampen the box office.

[ChipDerby]

15 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Probably the worst thing after The Dark Knight is the insistence from some that the villain has to outshine the hero in terms of performance etc when that's absolutely not true. I'd much rather see the actual hero get development than build up a huge villain and the hero gets sidelined, like in Quantumania.

 

I think it depends on what you prefer. IMO Marvels best films have had their most fleshed out villains. 

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, ChipDerby said:

 

I think it depends on what you prefer. IMO Marvels best films have had their most fleshed out villains. 

Guardians Vol. 1 is one of the most critically acclaimed MCU films. Would you say that Ronan was fleshed out?

 

[SpiderByte]

8 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Will make a great movie. But, again, IMO, will dampen the box office.

I think having likable heroes gets people to come back much much more than villains.

[ThomasNicole]

35 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Iger also said that the actors demands are unrealistic. I don’t know why we should put more weight to whatever Iger thinks about Disney’s current slate than what he thinks about the actors and writers want. 

He have enough data to say if a brand is somewhat damaged or not, it’s his work to see that

 

I don’t think is the same thing of express an awful opinion about a strike that isn’t about him or his work

[ChipDerby]

Just now, ZattMurdock said:

Guardians Vol. 1 is one of the most critically acclaimed MCU films. Would you say that Ronan was fleshed out?

 

 

The exception. But Guardians is also an ensemble film that hinges far more on the entire team being fleshed out and compelling. (Again, I think The Marvels will be great because of this reason! But it doesn't have that fresh hook that GOTG had to draw in audiences)

 

There's a reason the MCU keeps using Loki over and over.

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, ChipDerby said:

 

The exception. But Guardians is also an ensemble film that hinges far more on the entire team being fleshed out and compelling. (Again, I think The Marvels will be great because of this reason! But it doesn't have that fresh hook that GOTG had to draw in audiences)

 

There's a reason the MCU keeps using Loki over and over.

What about The Winter Soldier, then? Or even Civil War? Hell, it truly goes back since to Iron Man. The villains aren’t the focus in the MCU films, neither I expect them to begin doing that, unless that rumored Doom film happens.

[Eric is Anxious]

1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

???

 

 

Allow me to clarify things again. I felt, around the time Loki and Black Widow came out at the same time, that I personally felt oversaturation and exhaustion and that while it did not impact Black Widow, though I can't prove that per se, there could be a bad situation where it will impact the franchise long-term.

 

Is that all clear? Is everything understood now?

[SpiderByte]

It did clarify it, yes, especially since that isn't what you had said in the post I had quoted.

[ChipDerby]

12 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

What about The Winter Soldier, then? Or even Civil War? Hell, it truly goes back since to Iron Man. The villains aren’t the focus in the MCU films, neither I expect them to begin doing that, unless that rumored Doom film happens.

 

The Winter Soldier had a great and compelling villain, what are you talking about? Civil War was a mini-Avengers film (and honestly wasn't great)

 

I know the villains aren't the focus of the MCU, which is why I personally think DC films are typically better quality. But all the best MCU films, imo, are the ones with great villains. And usually the films with garbage villains gross less.

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, ChipDerby said:

 

The Winter Soldier had a great and compelling villain, what are you talking about? Civil War was a mini-Avengers film (and honestly wasn't great)

 

I know the villains aren't the focus of the MCU, which is why I personally think DC films are typically better quality. But all the best MCU films, imo, are the ones with great villains. And usually the films with garbage villains gross less.

Yeah… no lmao. 

[SpiderByte]

The frustrating thing about this is whenever they bring back an established character, people say "How are they going to explain this character" and when its a new character it's "why would anyone want to see a character that wasn't already established "

[ZattMurdock]

 

[ZeroHour]

8 minutes ago, Eric Bainbridge said:

Allow me to clarify things again. I felt, around the time Loki and Black Widow came out at the same time, that I personally felt oversaturation and exhaustion and that while it did not impact Black Widow, though I can't prove that per se, there could be a bad situation where it will impact the franchise long-term.

 

Is that all clear? Is everything understood now?

Most of the people I know who used to watch everything in the MCU now pick and choose (or when it comes to the movies wait until streaming). I remember at the height of the MCU, the joke was that even your grandmother knew who Rocket Raccoon was, but I don't think that's the case any more with all of these new characters. My own parents will ask if something is a "multiverse thing" now before watching anything in the MCU because after MoM they don't ever want to see anything related to the multiverse again (anecdotal, but maybe not a good sign for something called the Multiverse Saga!).

[ChipDerby]

3 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Yeah… no lmao. 

ok thanks for your input on my opinion, which I've stated multiple times. going on the block list now. holy fuck dude.

[SpiderByte]

10 minutes ago, ZeroHour said:

Most of the people I know who used to watch everything in the MCU now pick and choose (or when it comes to the movies wait until streaming). I remember at the height of the MCU, the joke was that even your grandmother knew who Rocket Raccoon was, but I don't think that's the case any more with all of these new characters. My own parents will ask if something is a "multiverse thing" now before watching anything in the MCU because after MoM they don't ever want to see anything related to the multiverse again (anecdotal, but maybe not a good sign for something called the Multiverse Saga!).

But literally right before Quantumania people, including on here, were saying there "wasn't an Endgame in plan" and "where's the long term plan" and that everything wasnt connected and everything was too standalone, and literally the exact second Quantumania came out people instantly claimed it was just over connected and needed to do more standalone stuff.

Edited July 27, 2023 by SpiderByte

[ZattMurdock]

10 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

ok thanks for your input on my opinion, which I've stated multiple times. going on the block list now. holy fuck dude.

I’m… not sure what to make out of this reaction. I’m not saying anything controversial when I say that Marvel Studios films are simply deemed better than DC’s output in general at very least since TDK. That’s the common sense general take. One can have a different opinion, and I respect that, it was just to point out that it clearly isn’t a common sense opinion, with critical reception and box office results to back it up.

 

I guess I should’ve seen the bait with the "strong villains" argument but I’m naive like that lol. 

[JustLurking]

I'm not sure why we are arguing about heroes vs villains as if a film needs to pick one to be good

 

But yes you can make a very good film even with a shitty villain (but as far as I'm concerned the only ones who succeeded at it are the first iron man and the GOTGs)

[robertman2]

33 minutes ago, ZeroHour said:

Most of the people I know who used to watch everything in the MCU now pick and choose (or when it comes to the movies wait until streaming). I remember at the height of the MCU, the joke was that even your grandmother knew who Rocket Raccoon was, but I don't think that's the case any more with all of these new characters. My own parents will ask if something is a "multiverse thing" now before watching anything in the MCU because after MoM they don't ever want to see anything related to the multiverse again (anecdotal, but maybe not a good sign for something called the Multiverse Saga!).

Fucking mood

[SpiderByte]

Most of the Multiverse Saga doesn't really have anything to do with the multiverse though. So far it's just been 5, Loki, Doctor Strange, Quantumania, What If, and No way Home. Aside from the Avengers movies, the only two upcoming projects to feature multiverse stuff is additional seasons of Loki and What If, and movie wise it's Deadpool 3 which is a guaranteed hit.

Edited July 27, 2023 by SpiderByte