Avatar :The Way of the Water OS thread

[JustLurking]

4 minutes ago, GOGODanca said:

after lightyear tanked in japan this year despite how big toy story was over there,i can't say i'm totally shocked, if little mermaid bombs over there then maybe disney is just done in that market in terms of making real money

Black lead+disney reasons are going to hurt Little Mermaid in Japan a lot. It's not seeing Beauty and the Beast/Aladdin numbers for sure imho. Would say like 5b tops if I had to project right now.

 

It's probably time for Disney to give their distribution rights to Toho, they'll do a better job frankly.

 

15 minutes ago, Agafin said:

I mean, this is not the first time the Japanese have utterly rejected a sequel/follow-up. As bad as it is, Avatar's drop is still going to be better than the Hobbit's drop from RotK (-82%) and only slightly worse than Alice through the looking glass. The points given by Isaac Newton are probably all the explanation you need for this failure.  Japanese people have no personal problem with James Cameron as far as know, they were afterall huge fans of his previous movies.

The only film Japan really loved from Cameron was titanic imho. Avatar did good numbers, but Japan was its worst performing market by far, only coming around 50% of the record at the time, and the film had meh bd sales and ratings afterwards.

[WorkingonaName]

What happened with Disney and Japan? 

[Reddroast]

46 minutes ago, Issac Newton said:

You can laugh as much as you want.

 

Avatar 2 will barely make ½ of SLAM DUNK 

I guess you could say avatar 2 got dunked on

[Nero]

52 minutes ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Seems a political block. Could a movie so huge be forgotten by a country that's always supported James Cameron. Looks fishy to me. 🤕

Avatar made like 170mil there in a.much smaller market?

 

Hopefully it hits at least the 40-50mil  mark . I can't believe TGM made a 100m and A2 is faltering.

.

No way Avatar 2 should be losing in Japan to a basketball anime. 😂 

Come on A2 at least get 30-40% of Avatars incredible 170m.

Heh. 

Jesus Christ dude, get off from your high horse.  So you mean local Japanese film shouldn't perform better than Hollywood movie? Why do you keep acting this way?

 

 

[JustLurking]

12 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

What happened with Disney and Japan? 

Quick D+ releases in the leggiest market in the world plus their attempts at getting more theatrical revenue from theaters got them boycotted a while ago by a few chains - including the busiest in the country (Toho). The boycott ended a while back but theaters will still drop their films after 30-45 days if they sniff a d+ release, which is a death sentence in Japan. Disney also does same-date releases for basically all their flicks nowadays and Corpse seems to think that's a really bad call to make in Japan, a market that generally benefits from built-in buzz from overseas, but they can't exactly delay them either since they have to put them on d+ (giving up their rights to a local distributor, as many others have done, would solve most of these).

 

There's probably other reasons, these are the main ones I can think of.

Edited December 24, 2022 by JustLurking

[Reddroast]

1 hour ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Seems a political block. Could a movie so huge be forgotten by a country that's always supported James Cameron. Looks fishy to me. 🤕

Avatar made like 170mil there in a.much smaller market?

 

Hopefully it hits at least the 40-50mil  mark . I can't believe TGM made a 100m and A2 is faltering.

.

No way Avatar 2 should be losing in Japan to a basketball anime. 😂 

Come on A2 at least get 30-40% of Avatars incredible 170m.

Heh.

ill provide some context on Slam Dunk since you refuse look into what Slam Dunk is.... It is not just a basketball anime. It is the premiere shonen sports manga. In the 5 years and 8 months (I looked it up, October 1990- June 1996 )it was a part of Shonen Jump ( the biggest manga magazine in japan. I looked) it was a Avatar level phenomenon. It's sold 170 volumes. The only other series that have sold  had been ongoing series for at least twice as long ( with one piece still running strong after 25 years 

 

Added the Wikipedia link in case people wanted to check

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_manga

Edited December 24, 2022 by Reddroast

[THUNDER BIRD]

Just a reminder Japan is the reason Jurassic World Dominion crossed a Billion with close to 50 million with a bad WOM.

 

So i guess there are few franchises that are still working in Japan.

[JustLurking]

21 minutes ago, Reddroast said:

ill provide some context on Slam Dunk since you refuse look into what Slam Dunk is.... It is not just a basketball anime. It is the premiere shonen sports manga. In the 5 years and 8 months (I looked it up, October 1990- June 1996 )it was a part of Shonen Jump ( the biggest manga magazine in japan. I looked) it was a Avatar level phenomenon. It's sold 170 volumes. The only other series that have sold  had been ongoing series for at least twice as long ( with one piece still running strong after 25 years 

 

Added the Wikipedia link in case people wanted to check

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_manga

170M is worldwide.

 

Manga-wise and accounting for volume count, SD probably ranks at a shared 3-4 with DB. #1 is DS, #2 is OP.

Edited December 24, 2022 by JustLurking

[Nero]

1 hour ago, JustLurking said:

Quick D+ releases in the leggiest market in the world plus their attempts at getting more theatrical revenue from theaters got them boycotted a while ago by a few chains - including the busiest in the country (Toho). The boycott ended a while back but theaters will still drop their films after 30-45 days if they sniff a d+ release, which is a death sentence in Japan. Disney also does same-date releases for basically all their flicks nowadays and Corpse seems to think that's a really bad call to make in Japan, a market that generally benefits from built-in buzz from overseas, but they can't exactly delay them either since they have to put them on d+ (giving up their rights to a local distributor, as many others have done, would solve most of these).

 

There's probably other reasons, these are the main ones I can think of.

I think lot of people are forgetting that Japanese animation has insane visuals/VFX effects. DS is proof of that. Fate series has gone from one high to another. Mappa, Ufotable , Bones for Mob Psycho, and even our beloved Madhouse studio have provided with very great animation. So avatar's visuals might not appeal to GA that much. Another factor is that only older generation is familiar with stars/star power and they came out for TGM. If Hollywood is to be connected they need to make movies which will appeal the younger generation.

[Nero]

1 hour ago, Reddroast said:

ill provide some context on Slam Dunk since you refuse look into what Slam Dunk is.... It is not just a basketball anime. It is the premiere shonen sports manga. In the 5 years and 8 months (I looked it up, October 1990- June 1996 )it was a part of Shonen Jump ( the biggest manga magazine in japan. I looked) it was a Avatar level phenomenon. It's sold 170 volumes. The only other series that have sold  had been ongoing series for at least twice as long ( with one piece still running strong after 25 years 

 

Added the Wikipedia link in case people wanted to check

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_manga

I read Slam dunk awhile back around 6-7 yrs ago and I can understand the appeal because I absolutely loved it. It is now one of the biggest sports manga (at the release it was probably biggest). So while the younger generation might not remember it (since they are used to new ones) it was something else. 

[Nero]

54 minutes ago, THUNDER BIRD said:

Just a reminder Japan is the reason Jurassic World Dominion crossed a Billion with close to 50 million with a bad WOM.

 

So i guess there are few franchises that are still working in Japan.

Dominion also dropped from previous entries. Nowadays it's hard to get big business in Japan unless the content appeals to young gen or older generation which still recognises starts like Tom cruise 

[JustLurking]

16 minutes ago, Nero said:

I think lot of people are forgetting that Japanese animation has insane visuals/VFX effects. DS is proof of that. Fate series has gone from one high to another. Mappa, Ufotable , Bones for Mob Psycho, and even our beloved Madhouse studio have provided with very great animation. So avatar's visuals might not appeal to GA that much. Another factor is that only older generation is familiar with stars/star power and they came out for TGM. If Hollywood is to be connected they need to make movies which will appeal the younger generation.

Eh. For TV animation sure but I don't really think film animation is all that impressive from those studios unless you're looking at something like Shinkai or Ghibli (in fact ghibli films have significantly higher budget than all the productions of the studios you mentioned). Esp. with DS basically starting a trend with those films produced like tv episodes that end up not feeling very impressive at all outside of the climax (DS' film is rather brutally outdone even by its own season 2 from a production standpoint).

 

Either way the visual level and appeal is way different so I don't think it really matters. Japanese audiences just didn't really care for Avatar years later and the struggles of its distributor don't really help it, I don't think it needs all that much rationalizing. The idea that local audiences *have* to care for what hollywood throws their way over their own films is just silly. If they like the film they'll show up (i.e. TGM), if not, it is what it is.

[Gkalaitza]

45 minutes ago, Nero said:

I think lot of people are forgetting that Japanese animation has insane visuals/VFX effects. DS is proof of that. Fate series has gone from one high to another. Mappa, Ufotable , Bones for Mob Psycho, and even our beloved Madhouse studio have provided with very great animation. So avatar's visuals might not appeal to GA that much. Another factor is that only older generation is familiar with stars/star power and they came out for TGM. If Hollywood is to be connected they need to make movies which will appeal the younger generation.

Dont think anime has much to do with this at all.  For one the GA in Japan that brings movies to 10 billion doesnt consistently watch action heavy TV anime at a significant %. DS was just the exception. Fate, mob ,OPM ,CSM,JJK or whatever other great looking shounen simply isnt watched by tens of millions across all ages in order to have any noticable impact. Many of those have a much larger international audience numbers wise. Also since its live action/photorealistic CG i doupt familiarity with great anime visuals plays much of a role in Avatar hitting less. And tbh other than Shinkai's movie no other huge recent anime movie hit is that elite visualy. Slam Dunk looks great from what of have seen but nothing awe inspiring. OP Film Red didnt look any better than past OP films nor elite either. JJK and DS movies while looking great they werent exactly top tier or cinematic, just at the level of really great TV episodes. Evangelion 3.0+1.0 too

 

. Maybe its Japan having a bigger history with practical effects through Tokusatsu and Kaiju movies that makes the top tier 3d-cg of avatar hit less but even thats a stretch.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Gkalaitza

[Nero]

46 minutes ago, Gkalaitza said:

Dont think anime has much to do with this at all.  For one the GA in Japan that brings movies to 10 billion doesnt consistently watch action heavy TV anime at a significant %. DS was just the exception. Fate, mob ,OPM ,CSM,JJK or whatever other great looking shounen simply isnt watched by tens of millions across all ages in order to have any noticable impact. Many of those have a much larger international audience numbers wise. Also since its live action/photorealistic CG i doupt familiarity with great anime visuals plays much of a role in Avatar hitting less. And tbh other than Shinkai's movie no other huge recent anime movie hit is that elite visualy. Slam Dunk looks great from what of have seen but nothing awe inspiring. OP Film Red didnt look any better than past OP films nor elite either. JJK and DS movies while looking great they werent exactly top tier or cinematic, just at the level of really great TV episodes. Evangelion 3.0+1.0 too

 

. Maybe its Japan having a bigger history with practical effects through Tokusatsu and Kaiju movies that makes the top tier 3d-cg of avatar hit less but even thats a stretch.

That's not true some of them especially OPM when it debuted as anime , DS and JJK all were huge. I mean DS was selling huge volumes after it's 1st season and the movie then went on to be highest grossing movie. Same with JJK it was also huge and the prequel movie also did very good business. Also you might have not seen but Fate movie also has great visuals, Shinkai since garden of words has been making great visuals. 

[Issac Newton]

19 minutes ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Dude it's logical. All of sudden one.of the biggest markets for Cameron films just.stop making money. You think other local films werent out vs titanic and Avatar. SMH

Local Content weren't as strong as back in Titanic Days excluding Studio Ghibli.

 

Avatar made numbers because the world got a new technology "3D" that Moviegoers ended up exploring immensely!

 

21 minutes ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Definitely it's not just that a big anime is out..lol

Obviously  Japan's authority can mess with your film, no.matter how many showings it has in the country

Local Content are always. Even Endgame couldn't defeat Conan even when weightage of OS reviews could be heard on every Japanese Site. 

 

It's really very easy to get G ratings in Japan. Not tough at all. Shows/Screens share depends on Internet Buzz and Ofc if it's Disney Film then you won't get any Seating Capacity Update 72 hours before release date as they mess up their film with Disney+ release. Local Distributor always wants 6 months gap between Theatrical and Streaming Release.

 

Also, Film Board isn't baised here. Independent &Free of all political influence. You are really wrong with this point.

 

26 minutes ago, Sheldon Cr said:

And there's talk of falling out with the Disney  and that theyre Cameron's message in this film. Know what your talking about man. I'm just glad the film should still clear 40-50m in japan. Lol.

It will make less than ¥4B ($30.13M) Disney Pandemic Hit - DS:MOM is just ¥2.16B

 

27 minutes ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Disney going to need to get better negotiations going on there and fix.that problem. That's for certain if they plan to have the usual Cameron numbers return

Nah, Disney can't save Avatar. 3D interest is long gone. If late leg save then you should thank God not to release in Disney+ soon

[Shanks]

I know @Issac Newton has been Pro- Avatar, optimistic and hopeful for it but I suppose constant bullshit can make anyone speak ill of Avatar 2 -  even if they don't mean to.

 

Good Going, Blue peeps.

[Nero]

31 minutes ago, Issac Newton said:

Local Content weren't as strong as back in Titanic Days excluding Studio Ghibli.

 

Avatar made numbers because the world got a new technology "3D" that Moviegoers ended up exploring immensely!

 

Local Content are always. Even Endgame couldn't defeat Conan even when weightage of OS reviews could be heard on every Japanese Site. 

 

It's really very easy to get G ratings in Japan. Not tough at all. Shows/Screens share depends on Internet Buzz and Ofc if it's Disney Film then you won't get any Seating Capacity Update 72 hours before release date as they mess up their film with Disney+ release. Local Distributor always wants 6 months gap between Theatrical and Streaming Release.

 

Also, Film Board isn't baised here. Independent &Free of all political influence. You are really wrong with this point.

 

It will make less than ¥4B ($30.13M) Disney Pandemic Hit - DS:MOM is just ¥2.16B

 

Nah, Disney can't save Avatar. 3D interest is long gone. If late leg save then you should thank God not to release in Disney+ soon

One thing I admire about Conan is that although it's not that popular outside but the movies Evey year are almost in top 5 or top 10. Conan is a juggernaut. Just incredible consistency. That too without movie being canon. 

[JustLurking]

26 minutes ago, Shanks said:

I know @Issac Newton has been Pro- Avatar, optimistic and hopeful for it but I suppose constant bullshit can make anyone speak ill of Avatar 2 -  even if they don't mean to.

 

Good Going, Blue peeps.

I did try suggesting people just use the ignore function instead of arguing with a wall, doesn't seem like people have taken it to heart though.

[Sophia Jane]

Think 3rd WE will flat from 2nd WE

[Nero]

Just now, Bruce said:

Think 3rd WE will flat from 2nd WE

OS?