Weekday Numbers [Aug 05 - Aug 08, 2024] | Wednesday | 9.87M DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE | 2.64M TWISTERS | 1.83M DESPICABLE ME IV

[Eric the Marxist]

48 minutes ago, AniNate said:

 

Yeah I don't deny that it's probably hurt the theatrical audience in general, but people need to shift the mindset beyond just the "theaters losing customers" perspective to realize it's better for everyone that people have options. You don't really want angry stressed out families in your movie theater audience or on the roads to get there.

Honestly it hasn’t? Like even with movies coming home sooner, movies are the leggiest they have been in a long while. Which granted is partly because there are fewer releases coming out these days, but it still says something that people actively seek out going to see these movies on the big screen despite the at home option. Not like we don’t have movies having terrible legs despite the lack of options anyways (Lightyear, Furiosa, Fly Me to the Moon).

[Jaxon5]

29 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

 

 

I actually think NWH would've been even bigger if released later because there were waves of Covid still keeping a set of folks away from theaters too. It didn't even have China I think, right?

 

Worldwide maybe but domestically? Not a chance. Being the first must see blockbuster for the US gave it an advantage and it had zero competition for months. Spider-man was the only worthwhile option if you wanted to go cinema.

 

UK had the very underwhelming Bond finale come out 3 months prior and Covid had no effect on it's performance there, becoming the 2nd biggest Bond movie of all time

[Dale Cooper]

7 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

I would not say post Covid. A lot more people were taking Covid extremely seriously still then abd just about all theaters mandated masking which also pushed some movie goers away. Waabt there a pretty massive wave right when it released? I'd argue The Batman and especially Strange 2 were the first true post Covid mega blockbuster releases.

 

That's actually it's benefit and the counter to my argument. It literally had zero competition forever so it's late legs were unreal. The Batman had very little competition too for the same reason. Pixar still wasn't even releasing movies in theaters the spring after NWH and when TB was released. 

Post Covid might be a bit too much. But it certianly didn't impact that much or it wouldn't have been that big. There was a massive wave early January. As you say, its legs were greatly helped by no competition, but also the fact that there hadn't been any huge film for about two years when it came certainly also helped. But sure, it might have been even bigger still, but I think that's far from a sure thing.

 

7 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

It is talked fondly by the vast majority of people. The problem is when it comes to the MCU, this will always has been a thing, it always will. The film has an insanely high critic and audience score on RT and it’s widely regarded among the general audience as the best Spider-Man film.

Well, as far as I'm concerned no Marvel movie has ever seemed to slip in general opinion as much as No Way Home has done since release. It's similar to Force Awakens in that regard IMO, and I am not so sure it's widely regarded as the best Spider Man movie at this point. I think the fact that we've seen so many saying that this Deadpool movie is the best Marvel since Endgame sort of shows this - Deadpool & Wolverine has had really good reception, no doubt, but nowhere close to what No Way Home had.

[ZattMurdock]

10 minutes ago, Dale Cooper said:

 

Well, as far as I'm concerned no Marvel movie has ever seemed to slip in general opinion as much as No Way Home has done since release. It's similar to Force Awakens in that regard IMO, and I am not so sure it's widely regarded as the best Spider Man movie at this point. I think the fact that we've seen so many saying that this Deadpool movie is the best Marvel since Endgame sort of shows this - Deadpool & Wolverine has had really good reception, no doubt, but nowhere close to what No Way Home had.

Like I’ve said, it’s based on feels, not really data. Data show us that it is the most beloved Spider-Man film. Your feelings about the film, Marvel or MCU not withstanding.

 

Edit: Also, it’s completely understandable that a lot of people see Deadpool & Wolverine as the best Marvel Studios film since Avengers: Endgame. I actually think there is even a point to be made about D&W over NWH, but that doesn’t mean that I prefer D&W over NWH. It’s a film that delivers what some people waited their entire lives for and it delivers masterfully. It makes a very strong case as the best film of Deadpool’s trilogy and that by itself is already a very strong trilogy. Never mind recency bias, some people might prefer D&W over NWH and that’s completely fine, it doesn’t mean that people fell off love for NWH at all.

Edited August 8 by ZattMurdock

[Cooper Legion]

NWH was definitely hurt by covid still, both DOM and WW. Helped by Xmas and low competition though. Probably something like 850/2.3B if it released a year later and with China 

[Dale Cooper]

1 hour ago, ZattMurdock said:

Like I’ve said, it’s based on feels, not really data. Data show us that it is the most beloved Spider-Man film. Your feelings about the film, Marvel or MCU not withstanding.

 

Edit: Also, it’s completely understandable that a lot of people see Deadpool & Wolverine as the best Marvel Studios film since Avengers: Endgame. I actually think there is even a point to be made about D&W over NWH, but that doesn’t mean that I prefer D&W over NWH. It’s a film that delivers what some people waited their entire lives for and it delivers masterfully. It makes a very strong case as the best film of Deadpool’s trilogy and that by itself is already a very strong trilogy. Never mind recency bias, some people might prefer D&W over NWH and that’s completely fine, it doesn’t mean that people fell off love for NWH at all.

I'm not sure using data from RT which is mostly collected around the time of release is a great way to determine whether something is held in lower regards now than at release.

 

Either way, if you disagree with me that's fine. Based on aggregated voting like IMDB or letterboxd I think NWH is the movie that has fallen the most out of Marvel's films. It might still be the most beloved movie in the Spider Man franchise as you say, but I don't really think there's a way to really tell from that kind of data.

 

1 hour ago, Cooper Legion said:

NWH was definitely hurt by covid still, both DOM and WW. Helped by Xmas and low competition though. Probably something like 850/2.3B if it released a year later and with China 

That's possible. But I genuinely think that the fact it was the first huge film released since The Rise of Skywalker (together with the fact that it had essentially zero competition) helped just as much as whatever Covid negative effects there were.

[reddevil19]

2 hours ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

I actually think NWH would've been even bigger if released later because there were waves of Covid still keeping a set of folks away from theaters too.

This is just one of those things that can't ever be proven one way or the other. Personally I am of the exact opposite opinion - a year later and with Strange coming first, as originally planned, perhaps that had the bigger hype but overall reception hurts NWH. It's no longer the first huge movie in a huge number of cinemas, with no other options. It's the big fish in the ocean rather than the whale in the pond, especially after Strange and Thor 4. I think it does JW numbers.

[ZattMurdock]

 

[reddevil19]

4 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

 

You can’t really tell me that this looks bad and ugly. It does not.

 

It looks no better or worse than the average Marvel flick. It gets the job done. Just like the movie itself. 

[JohnnyGossamer]

5 minutes ago, reddevil19 said:

This is just one of those things that can't ever be proven one way or the other. Personally I am of the exact opposite opinion - a year later and with Strange coming first, as originally planned, perhaps that had the bigger hype but overall reception hurts NWH. It's no longer the first huge movie in a huge number of cinemas, with no other options. It's the big fish in the ocean rather than the whale in the pond, especially after Strange and Thor 4. I think it does JW numbers.

At minimum it would've had China to boost OS sales.

[Jaxon5]

34 minutes ago, reddevil19 said:

It looks no better or worse than the average Marvel flick. It gets the job done. Just like the movie itself. 

Yeah MCU has never been visually amazing. Dark Knight trilogy looks better than all of them. Dune looks visually better than every MCU movie. I dont think visuals are their top priority as they all seem to look like TV commercials like it's an artistic choice.

 

NWH was good fun but the final fight was seriously lacking on the visual front. It was so bland and 3 spider-men together in a climax should never look bland

[reddevil19]

33 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

At minimum it would've had China to boost OS sales.

Yes - but you're assuming China numbers would have been larger than what we've seen from the MCU post-COVID and that the rest of the international markets would have delivered the same. I think they would have been considerably lower.

But as I said, it's just one of those things that can't ever be proven besides "a feeling". Same way I believe DP&W does 2 billion if released when NWH released, being first out the gate to capitalise on the pre-MCU nostalgia. The same way I believe Tenet would have done 800 million WW if released Nov 2021. And so on and so on.

We only have the numbers we do. 🤷‍♂️

[JohnnyGossamer]

1 minute ago, reddevil19 said:

Yes - but you're assuming China numbers would have been larger than what we've seen from the MCU post-COVID and that the rest of the international markets would have delivered the same. I think they would have been considerably lower.

But as I said, it's just one of those things that can't ever be proven besides "a feeling". Same way I believe DP&W does 2 billion if released when NWH released, being first out the gate to capitalise on the pre-MCU nostalgia. The same way I believe Tenet would have done 800 million WW if released Nov 2021. And so on and so on.

We only have the numbers we do. 🤷‍♂️

I assuming they'd have been more than 0. It never released there, no?

[JohnnyGossamer]

2 minutes ago, Jaxon5 said:

Yeah MCU has never been visually amazing. Dark Knight trilogy looks better than all of them. Dune looks visually better than every MCU movie. I dont think visuals are their top priority as they all seem to look like TV commercials like it's an artistic choice.

 

NWH was good fun but the final fight was seriously lacking on the visual front. It was so bland and 3 spider-men together in a climax should never look bland

Guardians movies look pretty great, especially Vol. 2. Dark Knight trilogy, especially Rises, look pretty bland. Otherwise, I agree.

[ZattMurdock]

46 minutes ago, Dale Cooper said:

I'm not sure using data from RT which is mostly collected around the time of release is a great way to determine whether something is held in lower regards now than at release.

 

Either way, if you disagree with me that's fine. Based on aggregated voting like IMDB or letterboxd I think NWH is the movie that has fallen the most out of Marvel's films. It might still be the most beloved movie in the Spider Man franchise as you say, but I don't really think there's a way to really tell from that kind of data.

.

Neither Letterboxd or IMDB are nearly as popular as Rotten Tomatoes. I never had a letterboxd but the ratings for Spider-Man: No Way Home seem high there when we compare with stuff like The Batman. We all know that franchise wars is a thing and review bombing exists. RT is still the best and most reliable metric we have for a film’s reception and I repeat:

 

Even by IMDB and Letterboxd ratings, No Way Home ratings are great. It’s superb based on the most popular aggregator we have. Claiming general audiences tastes changed based on feels it’s not something I’d like to argue. It seems disingenuous to me.

[PlatnumRoyce]

2 hours ago, Eric is Trapped said:

Honestly it hasn’t? Like even with movies coming home sooner, movies are the leggiest they have been in a long while. Which granted is partly because there are fewer releases coming out these days, but it still says something that people actively seek out going to see these movies on the big screen despite the at home option. Not like we don’t have movies having terrible legs despite the lack of options anyways (Lightyear, Furiosa, Fly Me to the Moon).

Zooming out, they've literally just decided to stop publishing the "let's talk about how great going to the movies is" data reports. There's a type of raw descriptive data we used to get in support of this sort of argument which no longer exists which implies the data got worse.

 

https://www.motionpictures.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/MPA-2021-THEME-Report-FINAL.pdf

[Jaxon5]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

Guardians movies look pretty great, especially Vol. 2. Dark Knight trilogy, especially Rises, look pretty bland. Otherwise, I agree.

Dark knight trilogy looks less colourful but there's something about them that looks very professionally made but I can't put a finger on it.

 

GOTG and Ragnarok are clear MCU standouts though

[thajdikt]

1 hour ago, Dale Cooper said:

 

Either way, if you disagree with me that's fine. Based on aggregated voting like IMDB or letterboxd I think NWH is the movie that has fallen the most out of Marvel's films. It might still be the most beloved movie in the Spider Man franchise as you say, but I don't really think there's a way to really tell from that kind of data.

 

 

This couldn´t be farther from the truth? It´s the third highest rated MCU on IMDB with 8.2 and almost 900k votes? Only Endgame and Infinity War is higher with 8.4. That makes it one of the highest rated CBM movies ever, almost cracking the famous top 250 of all movies. On Letterboxd it has 3.8. Same as Guardians of The Galaxy. Only Endgame, Infinity War, WandaVision and Vol 3 is higher from MCU. Every metric NWH has says it´s one of the most beloved MCU films. It has not fallen drastically at all on any metric.

 

45 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Neither Letterboxd or IMDB are nearly as popular as Rotten Tomatoes.

 

 

Disagree. Letterboxd is by far the most popular when it comes to audiences score. NWH has almost 3M ratings from audience. RT don´t come close to that. IMDB Is still popular for really big films, but is mostly a mess with reviewbombing etc, so it's hard to judge it as an accurate metric these days.  Letterboxd is the biggest by far, and it´s no longer just an app for filmnerds. It's gone mainstream. Deadpool and Wolverine has almost 800K ratings already from Letterboxd. IMDB has almost 200k. RT has the verified aspect but in terms of rating from audiences it´s not even close. 

 

That said these 3 metrics rarely don´t agree. Audience score on RT, IMDB score, and Letterboxd score is great for Deadpool and Wolverine. Same with NWH. They are great. 

Edited August 8 by thajdikt

[Madhuvan]

3 hours ago, Cooper Legion said:

NWH was definitely hurt by covid still, both DOM and WW. Helped by Xmas and low competition though. Probably something like 850/2.3B if it released a year later and with China 

More like 750/1.8B if came next year. DS2 and Thor before it

Basically lot of interest lost

Atbest it would be where it is , no change

[ZattMurdock]

21 minutes ago, thajdikt said:

This couldn´t be farther from the truth? It´s the third highest rated MCU on IMDB with 8.2 and almost 900k votes? Only Endgame and Infinity War is higher with 8.4. That makes it one of the highest rated CBM movies ever, almost cracking the famous top 250 of all movies. On Letterboxd it has 3.8. Same as Guardians of The Galaxy. Only Endgame, Infinity War, WandaVision and Vol 3 is higher from MCU. Every metric NWH has says it´s one of the most beloved MCU films. It has not fallen drastically at all on any metric.

 

Disagree. Letterboxd is by far the most popular when it comes to audiences score. NWH has almost 3M ratings from audience. RT don´t come close to that. IMDB Is still popular for really big films, but is mostly a mess with reviewbombing etc, so it's hard to judge it as an accurate metric these days.  Letterboxd is the biggest by far, and it´s no longer just an app for filmnerds. It's gone mainstream. Deadpool and Wolverine has almost 800K ratings already from Letterboxd. IMDB has almost 200k. RT has the verified aspect but in terms of rating from audiences it´s not even close. 

 

That said these 3 metrics rarely don´t agree. Audience score on RT, IMDB score, and Letterboxd score is great for Deadpool and Wolverine. Same with NWH. They are great. 

Okay maybe this old dog might have to learn a few tricks. I will download Letterboxd tonight when I get home.