Cmasterclay

This argument doesn't track. The whole reason that this new policy exists is to make the process better. If there's deserving performances, this policy makes it more likely they'll be nominated. That's the basic thinking behind any policy decisions: they're supposed to work in order to create a solution. And make things better. That's like saying "Well, we're going to war, but what happens if this war doesn't work, do we have to invade Canada?" Policies are supposed to lead to change.

Again, my mistake. Very important to note: For all the people calling this boycott stupid and everything....it worked! Like, the Academy has agreed to make the voting body more diverse (considering that the Academy was 95 percent white but movie audiences are 35 percent non-white). agreed to look over the membership rules so it isn't the same old and stuffy people hogging all the votes, and agree to play a part in encouraging diversity in the industry. Those are all common sense, logical steps I don't see how people can disagree with. So this whole "this boycott is pointless!" turned out to be......not pointless. Hopefully it pays dividends. And yes, award campaigning is a sham, me and Gopher were talking about this on Facebook the other day. Outside of Elba, which was from outsider Netflix, none of the POC performances had any campaign momentum behind them, especially including very arguable inclusions like Jordan or Del Toro.

Well, I thought your post came off as a bit dismissive and condescending of the issue, like a bunch of people are just being whiners and complainers because they disagree with your opinion. But I didn't mean to attack you! I guess the language barrier does have an effect, and our tones just differ. So that's my mistake Cjohn, I didn't mean to attack you. And I'm sorry, really. I'm not gonna debate the merits of Imitation Game and Selma anymore, but if you look at review and the consensus opinion of MOST, not all, but most people that saw both movies, and people liked Selma more. Again, large voting body, it's supposed to represent the consensus opinion of well-reasoned film analysis. But agree to disagree on that one. Also, ask anyone who works as an actor, or in the industry, and they'll tell you that while yes, awards ARE frivolous in the grand scheme of life and the world, they are a major driving force within the industry- ever notice how so many movies use Oscar noms in their ads. So within the industry, they do matter, and thus they can't just b e dismissed offhand.

First of all, Selma is really great for many reasons, but I've defended it too many times to get into it here. Certainly better than something as cliche or trite as Theory of Everything. But sure, that aside, is only one example, out of numerous. Sure, anyone can say "I didn't like that movie with POC, so why argue it didn't deserve a nom here or there?" Because I'm talking consensus opinion and well-reasoned arguments, and there has been instances throughout recent history where films and performances with massive consensus support and terrific notes were passed up in favor of things that were held in lesser regard by almost everyone. The Academy is a large voting body for a reason, it's supposed to represent some sort of consensus of well-thought out film opinion. And again, 20/20 actors are white. All eight of the best picture noms are about white people. There is tons and tons of prominent POC actors and filmmakers. Over 30 percent of the audience for movies is people of color. So again, why are ALL the best films and performances exclusively white people or near exclusively, every single year?

Sure, I do think that the diversity of movies like Star Wars IS a big deal, and really awesome. But I've argued several times that this is NOT just some silly awards show, otherwise it wouldn't generate the amount of attention and attract the hundreds of millions in advertising dollars and award campaigns that it does. It means something important int he industry.

Yea, because Selma was fucking spectacular, and it got nothing in any acting or tech category or in Director, while shit shows like Theory of Everything and Imitation Game, the ultimate in uber white Oscar baiting, got nominated for stuff most people think they didn't deserve. Yea, Selma got ONE token nomination. Whoope. Also, why are you so quick to dismiss this shit, like it's some kind of annoying joke? I have no problem with people disagreeing with my opinion for logically argued reasons, because I can see the complicated, multifaceted nature of this debate, but the "Oh boo hoo black people are such whiners I'm sick of PC crap" argument holds zero weight in actual discussion.

Impact went on some serious rant about how he's so sick of PC and feminist movies in the Best Pic thread, so he's probably trying just trying to find a horse to ride in on, even if it doesn't fit.

Great post, Claire. This whole "no one cares about the Latinos or Asians" argument is just strawman argument for people who can't create coherent retorts, given that almost everyone boycotting has specifically cited dudes like Del Toro and Isaac as some of the biggest snubs (and that isn't even speaking on the terrible lack of any roles for Asians, who can't get any attention for movies that don't involve Crouching Tigers or Hidden Dragons.) Also, I'm glad someone acknowledges that the Oscars DO matter- It's the most watched non-football program of the year, and they're the pinnacle of achievement in the industry. It's like saying the Super Bowl doesn't matter, or winning a big trial doesn't matter, or something like that (bad analogy, I know). It's an achievement based industry. If the Oscars were just some frivolous thing that didn't matter, we wouldn't have a 100 page Oscar thread every year, or an entire year of speculation, or 40 million viewers, or awards cited in movie trailers. And yea, the big awards matter. I DO absolutely think there should be more technical opportunites for POC, but in football, people care more about the MVP than the best offensive linemen and kickers. It's just human natures. Those are the awards people care about, and thus they matter more when it comes to contributing more to a culltural shift.

I don't think the people saying that this was a bad year for POC in acting roles are racist, but they certainly don't have very good taste. Spare me those bullshit argument, every one of those actors are better than someone like Redmayne. Jordan, Thompson, Mitchell, Jackson, Del Toro, Oscar Isaac, the lead in Tangerine, Attah, Elba, Will Smith, hell, even Jada Pinkett Smith? And yea yea, I know that's opinion, and of course we're supposed to respect everyone's opinion, but someone could have the opinion that Adam Sandler in the Cobbler deserves Best Actor, and that Fantastic Four deserves Best Picture. They aren't wrong! But those opinions are pretty dumb! I agree that this is a systemic issue that goes farrrr beyond Oscars. But let me tell you: as someone who grew up in the acting community, around actors who were mostly POC, you see clearly that it's discouraging for aspiring actors, my friends, to see the industry fail time and time again to award people of color, to acknowledge their importance, and to give them the roles needed to become great. Yea, do all for the love of the art and all, but acting is a fucking JOB, and being great and receiving acknowledgment for it means something, just like any other job. Why the fuck become an actor if the industry is going to cast you in only race-typical roles, pay you less, AND fail to award you when you do well? It furthers a cycle of racial issues that contributes to a system of oppression. And I know someone is going to argue: it's just movies, it doesn't even matter! It does matter. Movies are our most important cultural artifacts. They aren't just a bunch of pretty lights and color on a screen. They tell people how to think about their roles. And seeing actors of color in great roles at the forefront of big movies plays a CRUCIAL role in helping to normalize race relations and move our culture forward. Also, important to note, our country is 37 percent POC. So you're telling me that ALL of the best performances, and all of the best stories, in our most important cultural artifact, only represent one facet of our very diverse society? That doesn't make any sense. Why are we only seeing stories about either A. white people or B. black people in the most race typical way possible?

I was more upset about your use of PC police than your opinion, seemed like the kind of attempt we see constantly on these boards to discredit any liberal or progressive view as just being a bunch of whiny PC millenials. That was more my point. I apologize I misconstrued your argument- didn't see your posts in the other thread. Again, most of the performances I listed are very well received in movies that received Oscar attention in other categories (Ex Machina got a screenplay nom, Sicario got a bunch of noms, Elba got SAG and Globe, Smith got Globe, H8ful Eight got a bunch of other awards, so it's not like the academy didn't pay attention to these movies). This WAS a good year for POC in movies. Also, POC are continously ignored year after year after year. Are you saying that they all should have been ignored, over all these years, outside of one movie? Movies starring non white leads DESERVE more attention, not because of "pandering to diversity" but because many of them are just fucking great. So this baloney about non-white films and actors never "deserving" it is just so laughable. There's tons of black actors and Latino actors and Asian actors doing startling, great work. Are you really saying that every year, no more than one or two is one of the best actors? What wide array of ethnic backgrounds? They're all white Europeans outside of Innaritu! Alicia Vikander has a good tan, I guess.

What? No one in the fucking world would have said that. You're literally inventing arguments because your insane anti-PC (or anti diversity) agenda doesn't have any basis in coherent fact.

Jordan's work was that of an actual real human being that can be seen somewhere in real life. Believability in acting has become an almost lost art, and boy, did I believe that performance. Powerful as it gets, too. I'm not saying anyone who thinks he didn't deserve it is a racist, but I can say that they don't really have the best taste .

Again, do you really think that every single one of the best 20 performances of the year was all white people? That doesn't represent the people that are in movies or watch movies, or our country. That's ridiculous that all 20 just happen to be white, like only the best performances and stories are about white folks. Also, Jordan and Jackson were fucking far beyond Cranston or Redmayne. Those are the most actor-ly, give me an Oscah performances I've ever fucking seen. This whole "no POC deserved it" thing is just objectively bullshit and intelligence insulting. LOL @ movies involving POC being on the weaker side this year, by the way. Elba? Del Toro? Attah? Isaac? Jordan? Coogler? Jada Pinket Smith? Tessa Thompson? Jason Mitchell? Samuel L Jackson? Tangerine, Creed, both of which are universally loved? Give me a break. If anything, this year was STRONGER than usually for artists of color.

Oh yea, we need a cliche terrifying villain, someone just as cool as Darth Maul!!! Because Darth Maul really brought a ton of emotional complexity and characterization to the franchise.

After we saw the trailer for Dirty Grandpa, my Mom turned to me and said "Guess Robert De Niro must be broke." Guess she forgot that De Niro hasn't had artistic integrity since like 1999.

Loved the first, maybe my ultimate guilty pleasure movie, though really if it wasn't for the internet backlash I wouldn't think it was something to be too guilty about, I think it's pretty good. Regardless, I'm excited for this no matter what it is, because that cast is aces, the trailer is intriguing, and Damien Chazelle wrote it. If it really is a Cloverfield sequel, we need T.J. Miller back STAT though. Re-animate his corpse or something. Never enough TJ Miller.

Looking forward to the day when deserving performances don't get overlooked by an old ass voting body that didn't give them a second look.

Indeed. I actually had all three supporting Django guys on my Boffies ballot that year. Real shame he missed for Jackie Brown and A Time to Kill, too. Even smaller stuff like the Red Violin should have gotten him some attention.

Just realized Samuel L. .Motherfuckin Jackson hasn't been nominated for an Oscar since 1994. I feel like we're all worse off because of it.

Considering that Compton got PGA, SAG, AFI, and NBR and was listed in about half of the predictions online, it was clearly a strong contender. Also, in general, bringing this up doesn't mean the nominated performances weren't terrific or deserving- most were. But every...single....year, either 20/20 or 19/20 of the actors, almost all of the directors, and all but MAYBE one of the pictures are white, white, white. This country is about 37 percent black, Latino, mixed, or Asian. This year, we have a sum total of ONE nominee that comes from those groups- Innaritu. Bringing this up doesn't mean that we're being "too PC" or "pandering to diversity" or whatever the strawman line is for people that can't put together a coherent argument- it means that there's a recognizable problem, and that we as a people should be able to talk about it without a bunch of people Tweeting "2 PEECCEEEEE!" That doesn't mean these nominees aren't tremendous performers. But in a year of exceptional talents like Jordan, and Coogler, and Thompson, and Mitchell, and Samuel L, and Isaac, and Elba, and Del Toro, and others, the fact that none of them could pull a nomination indicates something troublesome. Because honestly, seeing Eddie Redmayne tuck his dick between his legs for an Oscah nom or watching Ruffalo be the fourth best male actor in his own movie or watching Cranston get nominated for playing a cartoon version of Dalton Trumbo, I just can't help but think "Holy fuck, how did Isaac not get nominated?" Or Del Toro? Or Mitchell, who was so electric he lept off the screen in his movie? Or Jordan, who was miles better than Redmayne in pretty much everyone's opinion? There's a systematic problem here, both within the industry AND the award infrastructure, that creates a cycle of marginalization that feeds into less diversity in movies. And we should be able to talk about that WITHOUT being called PC or whiny- and without detracting from the hard working nominees or calling anyone racist, either.

Right, because again, it's just a coincidence that every single year, the best movies are ones made by white people, starring white people, and about white people. Apparently, that's just happenstance. Ok, bub.

Elba? Del Toro? Straight Outta Compton? Creed? Coogler? Jordan? Tangerine? Mitchell? Du Varney, last year? Oyelowo? Isaac? Anyone? Do you really think that ALL the stories that are the best happen to be made by white people, star white people, and are stories ABOUT white people? Because I don't think that represents the diversity of our world, our countries, or our movies.

Right, because it's just a coincidence that NONE of the 40 best performances of the past two years were non-white people. Of course.

If by "boring Oscar filler" you mean Steven Spielberg's best movie in 17 years, then sure, boring Oscar filler.