Ghost in the Shell | March 31, 2017 | Scarlett Johansson | Paramount | New Trailer on page 43!!!

[robertman2]

Death Note gets a pass because it has Dafoe as Ryuk. It could commit a genocide of puppies for all I care

[ban1o]

40 minutes ago, Marcus Cato said:

 

Well, i guess there won't be anymore adaptations of foreign properties by american studios, because there will always be some sort of backlash, which is a shame.

or hollywood can cast more Asian Americans in lead roles. There's a thought. 

[robertman2]

Just now, ban1o said:

this isn't true at all. Stop being stupid. 

Honestly, I could see there being backlash, but mostly in Japan itself, thanks to tensions between them.

[ban1o]

11 minutes ago, Fate of the Robertman2 said:

Honestly, I could see there being backlash, but mostly in Japan itself, thanks to tensions between them.

not in America though there wouldn't be much. there are multiple projects with Asian characters with them playing different nationalities.  

Edited April 4, 2017 by ban1o

[Barnack]

7 minutes ago, ban1o said:

this isn't true at all. Stop being stupid. 

 

It did happen in the past (in sometime both China and Japan can get angry at the same time over it):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_of_a_Geisha_(film)#Casting_controversy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/3648434/Memoirs-of-a-very-controversial-geisha.html

 

The film received some hostile responses in Mainland China, including its banning by the People's Republic of China. 

 

And the Japanese studio used the same type of defense than Paramount kind of did, Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi being much bigger box office draw than any Japanese actress.

[ban1o]

6 minutes ago, Barnack said:

 

It did happen in the past (in sometime both China and Japan can get angry at the same time over it):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_of_a_Geisha_(film)#Casting_controversy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/3648434/Memoirs-of-a-very-controversial-geisha.html

 

The film received some hostile responses in Mainland China, including its banning by the People's Republic of China. 

 

And the Japanese studio used the same type of defense than Paramount kind of did, Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi being much bigger box office draw than any Japanese actress.

There are multiple projects like Fresh of The boat and crazy rich asians coming out this year with people playing different nationalities. Geisha was a little more controversial because of it's subject matter. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by ban1o

[Barnack]

25 minutes ago, ban1o said:

sigh. There are multiple projects like Fresh of The boat and crazy rich asians coming out this year with people playing different nationalities. Geisha was a little more controversial because of it's subject matter. 

 

There it would not have been a problem (like for Dr Strange casting an Asian would not have been an issue at all in the US), but in Asia it seem that it can be hard and you need to be sensitive that all Asians are not one entity, if you want both those Chinese and Japanese dollar (those 2 should be the big market for GITS) you certainly have to take it into account (specially when we are talking about a character that is anything close to Tibet).

 

It would not have surprised me if a lot of Japanese audience would have reacted more to an iconic character played by a Chinese actress than by Johansson (that said I know close to anything about it and goes by wikipedia article and repeating what I read random Internet people say about it, I could be all wrong). It is not particularly fair to compare world release movie to US tv show (with americans that will simply all put all Asians together without caring much)

Edited April 4, 2017 by Barnack

[grey ghost]

20 minutes ago, Barnack said:

 

It did happen in the past (in sometime both China and Japan can get angry at the same time over it):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_of_a_Geisha_(film)#Casting_controversy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/3648434/Memoirs-of-a-very-controversial-geisha.html

 

The film received some hostile responses in Mainland China, including its banning by the People's Republic of China. 

 

And the Japanese studio used the same type of defense than Paramount kind of did, Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi being much bigger box office draw than any Japanese actress.

 

 

Exactly.

So much for "being stupid".

[grey ghost]

21 minutes ago, ban1o said:

There are multiple projects like Fresh of The boat and crazy rich asians coming out this year with people playing different nationalities. Geisha was a little more controversial because of it's subject matter. 

 

 

Stupid is treating Japanese and other Asians as if they're interchangeable.

 

Many people consider that borderline offensive.

 

 

[grim22]

Reading through the THR roundtable, I found it funny that

 

Spoiler

Rila Fukushima, whose casting was announced via a press release when the initial controversy arose, was not even in the movie. The cyborg masks were based on her face.

 

[ban1o]

32 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

 

Stupid is treating Japanese and other Asians as if they're interchangeable.

 

Many people consider that borderline offensive.

 

 

Did I say they are interchangeable. Your solution is casting white people though. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by ban1o

[Mulder]

6 minutes ago, grim22 said:

Reading through the THR roundtable, I found it funny that

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Rila Fukushima, whose casting was announced via a press release when the initial controversy arose, was not even in the movie. The cyborg masks were based on her face.

 

This isn't entirely right but because of the new spoiler policy I can't say exactly why.

[Jandrew]

So what's the end game here? It seems like we go through this whitewashing stuff every year, it makes a big PR splash, and then that's it.

[ban1o]

Anyway I wasn't saying the casting a Japanese person shouldn't be the first option but that casting another Asian American is the main role would be a lot better than casting a white person. 

[ban1o]

2 minutes ago, jandrew said:

So what's the end game here? It seems like we go through this whitewashing stuff every year, it makes a big PR splash, and then that's it.

well the movie flopped. Hollywood won't care though 

[Mulder]

2 minutes ago, jandrew said:

So what's the end game here? It seems like we go through this whitewashing stuff every year, it makes a big PR splash, and then that's it.

I'd assume to ((hopefully)) cause Hollywood to change the way they go about casting. I mean so far every single big example of it has bombed at the box office besides Doctor Strange so.

[Jason]

Again, there's a difference between Asians in Asia and Asian-Americans. @ban1o has already clarified that he's talking about Asian-Americans.

 

I'm fairly certain most Asian-Americans don't care at all about precisely what kind of Asian gets cast in Hollywood productions. Unless Asian-Americans are very different from Asian-Canadians.

 

Also, the controversy over Memoirs of a Geisha has a LOT more nuance to it than just being about nationality. There was actually much more anger in China than in Japan, and it wasn't because they are necessarily against Chinese nationals (not the same as Chinese-Americans) appearing in films set in Japan. It has to do with implications that the Chinese actresses were being cast as prostitutes in Japan.

 

Wikipedia is all I have time for at the moment:

Quote

To some Chinese, the casting was offensive because they mistook geisha for prostitutes, and because it revived memories of wartime Japanese atrocities.^{[citation needed]} The Chinese government canceled the film's release there because of such connections, and a website denounced star Zhang Ziyi as an "embarrassment to China."^[17] This was exacerbated by the word "geigi" (芸妓^?), a Japanese name for geisha used in the Kantō region, which includes Tokyo. The second character (妓) could sometimes mean "prostitute" in Japanese language, though it actually had a variety of meanings, and there was a clear distinction between geisha and prostitutes which were called "Yūjo" (遊女^?). The character 妓 only means "prostitute" in Chinese, and the correct translation into Chinese of the word "geisha" is 艺伎 (traditional Chinese: 藝伎), which does not use it.

 

I've kept my mouth shut on the whole GitS controversy thus far, partly because it's really not about this one film, but a longstanding pattern of behaviour in Hollywood, and partly because these discussions get more heated than I'm comfortable with. But I'm honestly much more irked by the excuse-making, both by the filmmakers and by other defenders, than I am by the actual casting choice.

 

It's quite clear at this point that the filmmakers didn't bother to try to make a more authentic film in any shape, way, or form, for whatever reason, although my bet would be on complete cluelessness. @grim22 linked this (very spoiler-y) THR article in the Monday thread, there are much bigger issues than ScarJo's casting.

 

Honestly, ScarJo's casting is a blessing in disguise at this point, because the film's poor performance can't be blamed on the casting of a minority actress as the lead, which I feel Hollywood executives/filmmakers might have been tempted to do. Confirmation bias is real. Although I don't think any actress, minority or otherwise, could have saved this film at the box office, from what I've read and heard about it.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Jason

[Barnack]

2 minutes ago, jandrew said:

So what's the end game here? It seems like we go through this whitewashing stuff every year, it makes a big PR splash, and then that's it.

 

 

I think that the very long end game, is having diversity behind camera that will naturally  bring diversity in front on it in smaller prestigious movies. That will create a more diverse array of actor with clout that have worked with the big producer/studios/director and known by audience that studio can cast on big movies with financial pressure with their pre-sales/co-financing/loan obligation that make the executive only at ease if a big name is attached.

 

Once the diversity on screen is not really an issue thought it will maybe not be a subject of any importance for fictional movie (the casting precision will probably always be there historical character), leaving the artist liberty to cast anyone they want for any roles, but the option will be there and commonly used.

[grey ghost]

8 minutes ago, ban1o said:

Did I say they are interchangeable. You solution is casting white people though. 

 

Do I think the robot body needs an ethnicity or race.

 

No I don't.

 

It's just a shell. Get it? Ghost in the SHELL.

[Mulder]

Just now, grey ghost said:

 

Do I think the robot body needs an ethnicity or race.

 

No I don't.

 

It's just a shell. Get it? Ghost in the SHELL.

With real consequences for real people-

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/ghost-shell-4-japanese-actresses-dissect-movie-whitewashing-twist-990956