The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[JustLurking]

3 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

Didn't we just have this conversation that there's no evidence that the shows have any impact on box office a bunch of pages back? Are we just going to do this every week till this releases?

You have provided no evidence of the opposite either so I don't see why people should avoid posting their opinion just because you disagree

[SpiderByte]

1 minute ago, JustLurking said:

You have provided no evidence of the opposite either so I don't see why people should avoid posting their opinion just because you disagree

"You can't prove it didn't affect box office"

 

Yes I can. I gave many many examples of the shows having zero affect on the box office. There are many instances of both Marvel shows releasing in close proximity to movies, Mandalorian and Rise of Skywalker, and other major releases like Stranger things releasing near movies and having no. Visible. Affect. On box office. Sticking your head in the sand and saying "but what if SECRETLY No Way Home would have made 2 billion if Hawkeye wasn't made" is ridiculous 

[Belakor]

its a fact, GA are already not watching the latest's Marvel shows, the brand had diluted big,  in a shadow of its former self.

They saturated their own market releasing bad product more often, people don't wan to watch D plus shows to know what's happening in a movie.

 

 

[JustLurking]

4 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

"You can't prove it didn't affect box office"

 

Yes I can. I gave many many examples of the shows having zero affect on the box office. There are many instances of both Marvel shows releasing in close proximity to movies, Mandalorian and Rise of Skywalker, and other major releases like Stranger things releasing near movies and having no. Visible. Affect. On box office. Sticking your head in the sand and saying "but what if SECRETLY No Way Home would have made 2 billion if Hawkeye wasn't made" is ridiculous 

Except Eric did not argue about proximity hurting the films, he argued about their simple existence diluting the brand and so did panda

 

Unless you have been able to create a parallel universe where the shows do not exist and yet the films do the same numbers or worse I don't see how you could disprove this opinion, it's a fucking hypothetical

 

alas, you didn't and you can't, so take a chill pill and let people say what they think

Edited July 28, 2023 by JustLurking

[ZattMurdock]

11 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

Except Eric did not argue about proximity hurting the films, he argued about their simple existence diluting the brand and so did panda

 

Unless you have been able to create a parallel universe where the shows do not exist and yet the films do the same numbers or worse I don't see how you could disprove this opinion, it's a fucking hypothetical

 

alas, you didn't and you can't, so take a chill pill and let people think say what they think

I think the point that @SpiderByte is making and one that I agree with is that while Eric’s argument is good, it’s based on a narrative that falls completely apart when we remember the insane amount of TV series that were made around Marvel characters during the teens. 
 

And saying that they weren’t canon in hindsight is easy, that was obviously not clear back then, with people hoping that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Daredevil and etc would be eventually be referenced in the films. 
 

You have an argument when you say that the MCU is too big for it’s own good and that people don’t feel like ‘doing homework’ to watch the films, but that’s true if you take in consideration the films or not. And judging by how even a ‘failure’ like Quantumania is still around the top 10 of 2023’s box office with the likelihood that it will stay around there, clearly people are watching these films and following along. 
 

I think the actual pertinent question is: is the MCU too big for its own good? And I think that we aren’t at a point where the MCU needs a soft reboot, let alone a hard reboot. The MCU is full of peaks and valleys across the 15 years that it’s around. Spider-Man: No Way Home just did $2B WW less than two years ago. I’m sure that people will point out that Deadpool 3 is different, or how Avengers is different when they blow up as well.

 

But that has always been the case. Captain Marvel certainly isn’t like Ant-Man and The Wasp though. It’s quite more popular than people give credit for, and the hook here with Ms. Marvel and Photon added to the fold makes for an interesting twist. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[SpiderByte]

36 minutes ago, Belakor said:

people don't wan to watch D plus shows to know what's happening in a movie

They don't need to because they've literally explained anything relevant in the movie itself whenever it's been relevant.

[SpiderByte]

38 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

Unless you have been able to create a parallel universe where the shows do not exist and yet the films do the same numbers or worse I don't see how you could disprove this opinion, it's a fucking hypothetical

So to be clear there's no evidence to support your argument, but all the evidence against it doesn't magically count?

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

They don't need to because they've literally explained anything relevant in the movie itself whenever it's been relevant.

Not even I watched Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. when Nick Fury, Maria Hill and Lady Sif showed up on that show last decade. Or literally more than half of the Marvel tv shows to be honest. People not watching all Marvel content is not as novel as people are making out to be. 

[SpiderByte]

Yep. I don't think anyone at Disney thought the shows were going to get as many viewers as the movies sell tickets.

 

As for the shows argument...nobody was making this argument when the CW DC shows were airing. And those were like 3-5 a week for multiple years, way more than any of the Marvel stuff so far. The argument that Quantumania didn't do as well because of the shows just doesn't hold water... because the show Quantumania is tied to is the most popular one on Disney+! It just doesn't track with reality.

[JustLurking]

10 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

So to be clear there's no evidence to support your argument, but all the evidence against it doesn't magically count?

[SpiderByte]

Maybe now that this has derailed this thread for like the third time in as many days, maybe we can talk about the movie instead.

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Yep. I don't think anyone at Disney thought the shows were going to get as many viewers as the movies sell tickets.

 

As for the shows argument...nobody was making this argument when the CW DC shows were airing. And those were like 3-5 a week for multiple years, way more than any of the Marvel stuff so far. The argument that Quantumania didn't do as well because of the shows just doesn't hold water... because the show Quantumania is tied to is the most popular one on Disney+! It just doesn't track with reality.

My theory with Ant-Man is that beyond being mid - I still don’t think it has warranted that RT score, but it is what it is - just like Mission: Impossible has a ceiling, Ant-Man and the Wasp also has a ceiling.
 

So despite the initial interest which I basically think it’s related to Loki more than anything else - which kinda goes against the argument that people don’t watch the shows or don’t like the homework of following them - it went as hard as an Ant-Man and the Wasp film would. I mean, yeah it fell below AatW back in 2018, but people are happy to point out that Avengers is what made Black Panther or Captain Marvel soar, but when it comes to AatW is crickets? Quite convenient, eh?

[ZattMurdock]

So yeah, back to The Marvels and the unofficial Iman Vellani’s appreciation thread, the preview pages for Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant #1 is out:

 

 

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/ms-marvel-the-new-mutant-1-first-look-preview
 

Word in the street that the squad of X-Men that she’ll be part of will consist of Logan, X-23, Synch, Shadowkat and Rasputin. Kamala is joining the X-Men at one of their darkest moments. It’s rough shit, the organization known as Orchis in the comics might have ascended as the most evil X-Men villains of all time and the Marvel Universe as a whole. Hydra looks almost tame in comparison.

 

Also, after one week The Marvels second trailer made to 20m views from the main Marvel channel alone:

 

 

For comparison, Guardians, Vol. 3’s second trailer actually never made to 20m views, it has 18.3m from the main Marvel channel:

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[BK007]

I've lost interest after the trainwreck that was Secret Invasion. 

 

If that's the narrative direction they want to take this, count me out. 

 

Will put them on streaming in the background if I have nothing to do.

[BadOlCatSylvester]

1 hour ago, BK007 said:

I've lost interest after the trainwreck that was Secret Invasion. 

 

If that's the narrative direction they want to take this, count me out. 

 

Will put them on streaming in the background if I have nothing to do.

The latest scooperbro word is that The Marvels apparently largely ignores Secret Invasion, so it's likely not the direction they want to take going forward. I can't blame them after that abysmal finale.

[SpiderByte]

I mean it was was evident from the start that they weren't really related other than Fury's presence. Most of the movie isn't even set on the same planet as Secret Invasion 

Edited July 29, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Liiviig 1998]

1 hour ago, BadOlCatSylvester said:

The latest scooperbro word is that The Marvels apparently largely ignores Secret Invasion, so it's likely not the direction they want to take going forward. I can't blame them after that abysmal finale.

Guess that makes sense because secret invasion just about undermines and throws everything set up by the first captain marvel movie out the fucking window.

 

To go on another tangent in eternals they left a statue of the hand of a celestial coming out the earth and for 2 years no one in the universe has comented on it at all which is just mind boggling. not even exposition in the background. 

 

Phase 4 and 5 world building has been terrible and there has barely been any connectivity and every movie just feels like its own pocket dimension.

 

When avengers,AOU,winter solidier and civil war happened you see their ramifications on subsequent films and they would lay out bread crumbs well in advance.

 

This issues will be touched but now they will have to resort to rushed explanations and continue to live part of the GA more confused and unsatisfied.

 

Secret invasion epitomizes everything wrong with current phases. This should have been thriller with fury slowly investigating and discovering skrulls have invaded  the earth but nah first episode skrulls are just already there and have a base and fury already knows some are there and have been helping him which just sucks tension out of the whole thing and just undermines the premise of the show and it's just  boring.

 

 

[SpiderByte]

5 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

To go on another tangent in eternals they left a statue of the hand of a celestial coming out the earth and for 2 years no one in the universe has comented on it at all which is just mind boggling. not even exposition in the background. 

It's a major part of Cap 4 and Thunderbolts.

 

The main difference now is people expect everything to be followed up instantly, but Eternals was released less than two years ago. You want the MCU to play the long game, guess what, you actually have to wait for the long game to happen.

Edited July 29, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Deep Wang]

6 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

It's a major part of Cap 4 and Thunderbolts.

 

The main difference now is people expect everything to be followed up instantly, but Eternals was released less than two years ago. You want the MCU to play the long game, guess what, you actually have to wait for the long game to happen.

 

I have to imagine part of that has been the delays and schedule shuffling?

[Liiviig 1998]

25 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

It's a major part of Cap 4 and Thunderbolts.

 

The main difference now is people expect everything to be followed up instantly, but Eternals was released less than two years ago. You want the MCU to play the long game, guess what, you actually have to wait for the long game to happen.

MCU has always been playing the long game but previous saga  was so much better at setting up and leading up to those events. 

 

Civil war happens , it's literally referenced in homecoming. Which is 1 year apart  and 1 movie in between.

 

They have released like 10 different projects with very little connective tissue in the last 2 years since eternals  and more to be added till the movie  releases next year.

 

I know you are not hard on MCU as the rest here but even you have to admit that's simply not a good strategy. 

 

DS2 literally just slams Wanda being evil on the get go at the audience in like the first few minutes and oh boy were some just confused.

 

Same is going to probably  happen esp in cap 4 .

 

My criticism is not on MCU playing the long game but how it's being played and it's clearly putting a burden on the GA and believe me they care and bothered despite some saying it has no impact .

 

When we say shows are ruining the MCU by oversaturation ,this is what we clearly  mean . Shows don't directly affect box office but they affect the overall storytelling which in turn affects the quality of the films hence leading to audience disatisfaction hence affecting box office returns.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Liiviig 1998