The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Bob Train]

MCU's biggest problem is too many bad movies and shows. Law of diminishing returns will set in fast if they don't fix it. They need to up the quality ASAP,  as novelty alone isn't enough anymore. If Thunderbolts is Quantumania quality it won't cross $400m WW.

 

They gave too much power to Feige so he started making Rick & Morty amateurs with no experience write $200m blockbusters. They should fire those writers and bring back talented writers.

[WorkingonaName]

Blaming Covid is the ultimate cope. 

[HummingLemon]

50 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Then refute the numbers with fucking numbers and not your feelings. Find me one measly little inkling that The Marvels will drop more than Wakanda Forever, which lost its fucking star and only dropped 36%. Come on. Do it.

Black Panther was a cultural event and made money based on its own merits (people like to shit on Wakanda Forever's performance but $450M+ domestic without the main lead is nothing to sneeze at).

 

Captain Marvel was super duper carried by Endgame hype. This doesn't have that anymore and the brand is in decline. If Guardians Vol 3 with amazing word of mouth can "only" make $845M then I don't think <$722M is all that much of a stretch for The Marvels. Not to mention that Captain Marvel is teaming up with two Disney+ sidekicks, idk how that's gonna turn out but I don't really think audiences care about the D+ characters. The Marvels also just seems very generic which is a death-blow for CBM's post-pandemic. 

 

By the way, I'm not rooting for The Marvels to fail. I would love it if it overperforms and defeats GOTG 3 somehow. However I'm just being cautious and I'm not gonna overestimate it just because "Reddit thinks it will bomb so therefore it'll do well." 

[The GOAT]

40 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

They gave too much power to Feige so he started making Rick & Morty amateurs with no experience write $200m blockbusters. They should fire those writers and bring back talented writers.

I have heard better dialogue from a 90s Soap Opera than a majority of these films post Endgame.

[SpiderByte]

Idk why people act like every movie has been written by a Rick and Morty veteran and not... literally one? At least that I can find

Edited September 19, 2023 by SpiderByte

[YM!]

1 hour ago, Bob Train said:

Holland Spider-Man 4 is the next CBM to make $1b imo.  

 

Sony needs to start making Tobey Spidey 4 with Raimi directing and TASM 3 instead of whatever Madame Web/El Muerto/Kraven crap they are trying to churn out now

Think Deadpool 3 and Joker 2 could do it. Both need to be great though. 

[HummingLemon]

It would be funny if Spidey and Joker films are the only $1B CBM's post Endgame

[WorkingonaName]

GOAT Phillps doesn't miss. 

[ChipDerby]

The only MCU films that have struggled post Endgame have been the NEW characters, and the bad Ant-Man film. If you want to predict the fall of the MCU, it will happen with their new characters that haven't been introduced. 

[HummingLemon]

People sometimes exaggerate how "bad" the MCU is doing. The last 5 MCU films average out to $780M (although it honestly could've been up to $900M+ if Multiverse of Madness, Thor 4, and Ant-Man Quantumania weren't poorly recieved).

[Liiviig 1998]

7 hours ago, ChipDerby said:

HAS been more successful. I've literally proven it with facts and numbers. And if you realistically compare this as a restart to the entire MCU, as it is a new saga, it's wildly more successful than the first 9-10 films in the

First post.  Movies after EG more successful % than prior EG. Absolutely no context.

 

Subsequent post. Set an arbitrary mark of 750mWW and some stuff about legacy characters .chose any other number like 500m and your whole factual argumentation goes to shit and then cut out the avengers movies based on this phase not having any yet any??

 

Latest post. Start of this phase is way better than start of the first batch of 9-10 movies of the infinity saga.

 

Your keep shifting goal posts. 

 

Your just arguing for the sake of arguing. 

7 hours ago, ChipDerby said:

Unless for some reason you want to compare a phase with no Avengers films to a phase with... all the Avengers films. In fact,

Yes . Based on your OP . Which stipulates movies b4 endgame  vs after endgame.  You can't calculate success percentage on movies that Haven't released yet. That would seize to be factual. 

 

Once again I think you don't understand what cherry picking is?

 

Just read through your original post again.  Because you have been contradicting  it .

 

Once again you claim to be using facts while ignoring others and randomly selecting those that fit your argument.

 

Facts don't always mean "iam right " that's why poeple with different facts can argue. Because facts can be manipulated too or certain facts that are important to be consider can be ignored. 

 

My problem is your 750m WW+ arbitrary cherrypick. Change it to any other number and the percentages change in the other sides favour like 500m+ like @Bob Train pointed out. Which makes a pointless point of argumentation.  

 

Your ignore the financial short comings of the current phase (bombs and those that scrape past breakeven).

 

Just love how the comparison btn these start of this phase is compared to the start of infinity saga .

 

MCU wasn't popular back then it had to gain it hence increasing returns with time VS phase 4 and 5 which started with MCU at peak popularity and in a space of like 3 years . A marvel movie isn't guareented sure fire hit .  

 

Iger himself even admitting they kind of fucked up.

 

Then you get posts  like the ones above that have to ignore certain facts  just to say MCU is not in a current state of decline.

 

 

 

 

[JustLurking]

this convo is fucking dumb. the MCU is not a dead franchise like many are claiming nor is it a franchise at the height of popularity like derby is saying. it's a strong franchise that is going through pains and may or may not recover from them.

 

comparing to the very first films in the franchise and using completely arbitrary metrics to do so is also really silly by the way. not only because of obvious reasons (all those films that did it are sequels, and in some cases also massive cameofests, ans the BO numbers in general weren't as high in the late 2000s and very early 2010s yet) but also because it's ignoring that those films were made cheaper and in some cases easily posted better returns than some of those that did make 750.

 

it's ok to admit that marvel has problems. it's also ok to admit that it's not yet a fucking corpse of a brand, y'all.

Edited September 19, 2023 by JustLurking

[WorkingonaName]

The MCU is in its witness era. 

[PlatnumRoyce]

6 hours ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Yes? Unless you're here to claim the box office is back to pre-2020 levels.

It's not, but that's the great thing about 20% inflation! Without inflation, a lot of drops look pretty terrible. 

 

 

[HummingLemon]

God damnit. If MoM Thor & Ant-Man were good 

[Liiviig 1998]

29 minutes ago, HummingLemon said:

People sometimes exaggerate how "bad" the MCU is doing. The last 5 MCU films average out to $780M (although it honestly could've been up to $900M+ if Multiverse of Madness, Thor 4, and Ant-Man Quantumania weren't poorly recieved).

.

 

MOM ,Thor 4 had hype and benefited from that and resulting legs were shitty. Money left on the table. Both would have done 1.1b+ and 900m 

 even without china.

 

The back to back negative reception of those two films is where a considerable portion of the audience kind lost faith in the MCU.  Guardians 3 one of the most popular was bailed out by WOM . Presales were pretty meh and could have resulted to OW similar to Quantumania if WOM wasn't good. Same for the intentional thread were sales looked bad until WOM spread in over the 5 day weekend.

 

Audience is now definitely more picky now. 

 

 

 

[HummingLemon]

5 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

.

 

MOM ,Thor 4 had hype and benefited from that and resulting legs were shitty. Money left on the table. Both would have done 1.1b+ and 900m 

 even without china.

 

The back to back negative reception of those two films is where a considerable portion of the audience kind lost faith in the MCU.  Guardians 3 one of the most popular was bailed out by WOM . Presales were pretty meh and could have resulted to OW similar to Quantumania if WOM wasn't good. Same for the intentional thread were sales looked bad until WOM spread in over the 5 day weekend.

 

Audience is now definitely more picky now. 

 

 

 

Yes and I acknowledge this 

 

The hype around the brand and upcoming movies was absolutely huge right after No Way Home. But then it was kinda fucked up by mixed reception and underperformances. Multiverse of Madness got mixed reception, but most people on r/boxoffice seemed to think it was just a fluke. But then Thor came out to mixed reception and then it started becoming a trend. Wakanda Forever was fine but still underperformed. Quantumania then came out to absolutely dogshit reception and fucked over the set up for the next Avengers films, even hurting GOTG 3. 

 

 

 

[Liiviig 1998]

40 minutes ago, HummingLemon said:

God damnit. If MoM Thor & Ant-Man were good 

Yeah then the conversation would be very different. 

 

These 3 movies did some Considerable damage .They heavily involved already established popular characters and had some Major hype. CS came in B's for all 3.

 

Eternals was basically new characters so people  didn't care after a while and just got swept in NWH mania

 

But marvels simply has to be good .  The days of "it's MCU goodwill " boost died in 2022.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Liiviig 1998

[HummingLemon]

48 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Yeah then the conversation would be very different. 

 

These 3 movies did some Considerable damage .They heavily involved already established popular characters and had some Major hype. CS came in B's for all 3.

 

Eternals was basically new characters so people  didn't care after a while and just got swept in NWH mania

 

But marvels simply has to be good .  The days of "it's MCU goodwill " boost died in 2022.

Yup

 

There was an absolutely MASSIVE difference in hype in the brand after No Way Home vs after Quantumania. Place Guardians in the May 2022 slot and it probably opens to like $160M instead of $118M

[Spidey Freak]

1 hour ago, HummingLemon said:

Yup

 

There was an absolutely MASSIVE difference in hype in the brand after No Way Home vs after Quantumania. Place Guardians in the May 2022 slot and it probably opens to like $160M instead of $118M

 

Possibly but IW and EG did some damage to GotG via Star-Lord's character as well. So it was always going to be an uphill battle for the Guardians in Phases 4-5. Of course, following up Quantumania put GotG3 in a worse position.

 

The fact that it still didn't bomb is actually a testament to how strong the MCU as a brand still is especially when they put out good movies.