The Flash | June 16 2023 | Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton | We’re stoping the count at a Nice 69% RT (it’s 72% For Real) | Please Remember that Your Enjoyment Of The Film is Not Based On Others Opinions And To Be Nice To Each Other

[Super]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:56 PM, cookie said:

Saw a screening of this earlier today. Thought the movie was good, but not great. If I have to predict Cinemascore I would say... A-?

Interesting that you think it’s good yet expect something like an A- Cinemascore. Are there off putting things in the film that you liked that you suspect others won’t?

[cax16]

..

Edited May 26, 2023 by cax16

[YM!]

8 hours ago, excel1 said:

 

The 130m OW for THE BATMAN would have been deemed a horrific underperformance before the pandemic. That NWH came out after and nearly doubled is a large sign that THE BATMAN could have done much better. Batman is cinematic royalty with an immense track record of success. 

 

Someone else said this before, but in 2019, if you had been told that BLACK ADAM would open to exactly 50% of THE BATMAN, that would have been viewed as very favorable for BA. 

Because NWH had every live action Spider-Man in it. This was a reboot that was a few years after a not so well received rendition. Homecoming did 117m and Begins did around 75m for the five day. Not everyone has the Batman franchise must debut with 150-200m to be a hit like you do. That point of 50% of the Batman for BA is still very fair.

[YM!]

3 hours ago, Jeight said:

No,  there isn't. Not with all the duds DC has put out.  There would be in 2008 before Green Lantern,  Jonah hex and the dceu. 

 

That's like saying there is bigger interest for a dark universe now after the Mummy  flopped.  There isn't.  Or a bigger transformer interest now cause the bay movies were bad.  Yet Bumblebee barely broke even and Rise of the Beasts isn't looking too hot right now?  Why,  cause of brand damage... 

so Fantastic Four should be doomed by that logic yes?

[ZattMurdock]

23 minutes ago, YM! said:

Because NWH had every live action Spider-Man in it. This was a reboot that was a few years after a not so well received rendition. Homecoming did 117m and Begins did around 75m for the five day. Not everyone has the Batman franchise must debut with 150-200m to be a hit like you do. That point of 50% of the Batman for BA is still very fair.

The fair and way more apt comparison between Spider-Man and Batman reboots when it comes to reboots is Spider-Man: Homecoming and The Batman. Spider-Man: No Way Home is my current favorite Spider-Man film of all time, but it was also the culmination of a beloved trilogy that integrated Spider-Man into the larger Marvel Cinematic Universe and not only that, it was a culmination of 20 years of Spider-Man cinematic stories, it was a celebration of Spider-Man from all generations, which sets apart to pretty much anything that was ever attempted. The Flash is angling something one could say it’s similar, but it’s obviously not the same thing under further inspection.

 

Both Spider-Man: Homecoming and The Batman accomplished what those films were set out to do: present the audiences with a new take on their mythos, a fresh start of the franchise. Spidey and Batman are some of the most known IPs in the world. There is no reason to expect that their reboots - even more so coming few years after a botched attempt in the eyes of the public and critics - would go for $150m+ right out of the game. Their investment is on the long haul, not starting breaking insane records. 

[excel1]

7 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

It’s Batman’s 4th reboot in less than 33 years. After having a failed attempt of a reboot. I don’t understand why would anyone think that. 

 

reboot or no reboot, it was terrible for a bat film.

[ZattMurdock]

9 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

reboot or no reboot, it was terrible for a bat film.

Because… Batman. That’s the reasoning. Sure lol.

[Hatebox]

The Batman’s run is a matter of perspective. For the IP it’s nothing special. For an almost three hour, relentlessly dour mood piece it’s pretty good. 

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, Hatebox said:

The Batman’s run is a matter of perspective. For the IP it’s nothing special. For an almost three hour, relentlessly dour mood piece it’s pretty good. 

It’s a nice jumpstart into a new take on Batman. Curious how James Gunn will handle it. I’d much rather see Reeves playing ball and allowing Pattman to become the first character of the new DC Universe, but I’m open to whatever Gunn will cook with Brave and the Bold.

[Jeight]

2 hours ago, YM! said:

so Fantastic Four should be doomed by that logic yes?

no because the MCU is the most successful franchise of all time and they have a goodwill amassed over 15 years.  A couple of poorly received films isn't gonna erase all the successful ones. 

 

Almost 70% of DC films are either panned,  flopped or both.  It's a completely different scenario than f4 which won't blow the roof either.  I doubt anyone at marvel expects more than 500-600 million

[ChipDerby]

You could just not post in this thread if you have no interest in DC films.

[WittyUsername]

8 hours ago, Jeight said:

Some of you here brushing off consecutive DC movies underperformance as "more proof than Gunn needed to reboot" is very tunnel visioned. 

 

If this underperforms and then aquaman after it then, why would audiences be excited and invested in another shared DC universe,  the third attempt in 13 years?  Continuous damage to the brand isn't gonna erased if Legacy is successful. There is an entire generation of people who has connected DC with lesser quality with only few movies in the past 25 years being well received and successful.  Seriously, it's only the Dark Knight Trilogy,  wonder woman,  joker,  batman,  aquaman and maybe shazam.  8 movies in 30 years!!!! 

If this underperforms, I feel like that would be a more compelling argument than anything that they would be better off giving up on trying to chase that MCU money. The decision to adapt Flashpoint was already a conscious attempt to move away from the Snyderverse, while still keeping what worked, and Gunn has made it sound like that’s still the plan, except that he’s apparently going to take it even further.

 

WB has been trying to get a DC cinematic universe off the ground for well over a decade at this point, and they’ve never been able to truly pull it off. I genuinely don’t know if there’s still a demand for this stuff. Sure, GotG 3 has been doing pretty well, but that’s fairly disconnected from the larger narrative of the MCU, and even then, it’s been getting by on good word of mouth, rather than pre-release hype. 
 

Of course, if this movie does well, then I suppose that might be a moot point. If it’s a critical and commercial success, then that might be the shot in the arm that DC needs. If so, then I think they wouldn’t have much of an excuse not to keep Sasha Calle. If she’s the breakout star, then they might as well keep her as the DCU’s Supergirl. 

[Jeight]

11 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

You could just not post in this thread if you have no interest in DC films.

When did I say that I didn't have interest in DC films?  My entire point is that the ga audience has lost interest and the accumulated damage DC has done to its brand it's more long term than people think. Unless somebody you want to debate whether most DC films if the past 25-30 years have been failures or extremely controversial.  Which isn't really debatable. 

 

The Batman was my favorite cbms of 2022 and I loved yes and the first Wonder Woman.  This isn't about me,  it's about the indifference of the general audience 

[Jeight]

7 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

If this underperforms, I feel like that would be a more compelling argument than anything that they would be better off giving up on trying to chase that MCU money. The decision to adapt Flashpoint was already a conscious attempt to move away from the Snyderverse, while still keeping what worked, and Gunn has made it sound like that’s still the plan, except that he’s apparently going to take it even further.

 

WB has been trying to get a DC cinematic universe off the ground for well over a decade at this point, and they’ve never been able to truly pull it off. I genuinely don’t know if there’s still a demand for this stuff. Sure, GotG 3 has been doing pretty well, but that’s fairly disconnected from the larger narrative of the MCU, and even then, it’s been getting by on good word of mouth, rather than pre-release hype. 
 

Of course, if this movie does well, then I suppose that might be a moot point. If it’s a critical and commercial success, then that might be the shot in the arm that DC needs. If so, then I think they wouldn’t have much of an excuse not to keep Sasha Calle. If she’s the breakout star, then they might as well keep her as the DCU’s Supergirl. 

Zaslav has name dropped the MCU as the model they are trying to replicate at least 6 times since the beginning of the year. They are still chasing the MCU and they always will cause that's the success they want. 

 

Gotg had an elgreat woman but also had a 120 million opening. It wouldn't happen if it wasn't in association with the brand. The last 6 MCU movies have opened with 100+ million.  Eternal which lost money opened with 80, a bunch of z listens at best.  The MCU brand power drives those openings.  That's what Zaslav wants. 

[ChipDerby]

The general audience is indifferent to average or bad DC films. Ditto Pixar films. 

 

Make great films, and it's not a concern. Literally the only exception to this is TSS which opened during the pandemic and followed up a horrific film AND was released on HBO Max same day.

[WittyUsername]

2 minutes ago, Jeight said:

Zaslav has name dropped the MCU as the model they are trying to replicate at least 6 times since the beginning of the year. They are still chasing the MCU and they always will cause that's the success they want. 

 

Gotg had an elgreat woman but also had a 120 million opening. It wouldn't happen if it wasn't in association with the brand. The last 6 MCU movies have opened with 100+ million.  Eternal which lost money opened with 80, a bunch of z listens at best.  The MCU brand power drives those openings.  That's what Zaslav wants. 

Of course they want that success. I just have to wonder if it’s too late at this point. Is there still a demand for the Marvel formula? I guess we’ll find out. 

[dudalb]

5 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

It’s a nice jumpstart into a new take on Batman. Curious how James Gunn will handle it. I’d much rather see Reeves playing ball and allowing Pattman to become the first character of the new DC Universe, but I’m open to whatever Gunn will cook with Brave and the Bold.

I enjoyed "The Batman" but it take on Batman was really not that different the Chirs Nolan's. I liked the fllm a lot but was not breaking new ground.

[dudalb]

1 hour ago, ChipDerby said:

The general audience is indifferent to average or bad DC films. Ditto Pixar films. 

 

Make great films, and it's not a concern. Literally the only exception to this is TSS which opened during the pandemic and followed up a horrific film AND was released on HBO Max same day.

I disagree; some very great films have not done well at the box office in their intial release.

[dudalb]

2 hours ago, ChipDerby said:

You could just not post in this thread if you have no interest in DC films.

You can be interested in how DC films do at the box office, but not be a fan of the DCU.

This is a box office discussion page, not a fan page.

[ChipDerby]

13 minutes ago, dudalb said:

You can be interested in how DC films do at the box office, but not be a fan of the DCU.

This is a box office discussion page, not a fan page.

 

At some point it just becomes trolling. If your only interest in the film is tracking how poorly it may/may not do, what's the point? Go to a movie thread that you enjoy.