The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!

[Willowra]

30 minutes ago, Kon said:

 

Right now, Marvel Studios has likely more relevant things to worry for the brand than fans speculating who will be the lead of an Avengers movie.

 

In fact, after The Marvels bomb so hard, most people don't really believe Captain Marvel will be the main lead of an Avengers movie. So, I don't think Marvel Studios need to worry about that.

What marvel should worry or not worry that's not my concern; I only saying why it flopped, it flopped because MCU dedicated fanbase didn't support the movie.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Willowra

[SpiderByte]

I don't think wondering if Captain Marvel was going to be a lead was an issue even before The Marvels because while it did involve the multiverse it doesn't really sound like she was going to be the one at the center of it.

[Kon]

11 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Ask those fans who boycotted this movie, they definitely speculate this & they don't like it & it make them uncomfortable with the character. The marvels bomb so hard because mcu dedicated fanbase didn't support it, the same fanbase will rush to theatres to watch DP3.

The Marvels bomb because there was disinterest on the character and the brand, not because a group of fans boycott the movie.

 

There were a group of fans trying to boycott Captain Marvel, but that didn't work. The interest for Captain Marvel movie was likely due to promotion connecting it with Endgame, but it stil shows that interest is a lot more important that some groups of online fans trying to boycott a movie.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Kon

[Willowra]

3 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I don't think wondering if Captain Marvel was going to be a lead was an issue even before The Marvels because while it did involve the multiverse it doesn't really sound like she was going to be the one at the center of it.

There have been hundreds of reddit posts made in the last 4 years about who'll lead the Avengers; people were posting them daily, and we can still see such posts regularly. The point is that Marvel Studios made a section of their dedicated fanbase uncomfortable with the character. Some Strange & Spidey fans hate her because they want them to be the focus of this saga; some Captain America fans hate her because they want CA to be the leader of the Avengers; some Thor & Hulk fans hate her because they want them to be the strongest; and some Wanda fans hate her because they want Wanda to be the most important female character in this saga.

[Willowra]

12 minutes ago, Kon said:

The Marvels bomb because there was disinterest on the character and the brand, not because a group of fans boycott the movie.

 

There were a group of fans trying to boycott Captain Marvel, but that didn't work. The interest for Captain Marvel movie was likely due to promotion connecting it with Endgame, but it stil shows that interest is a lot more important that some groups of online fans trying to boycott a movie.

Fans didn't support it because they were disinterested in the character, I'm just giving the reason behind the disinterest.

[SpiderByte]

48 minutes ago, Willowra said:

The point is that Marvel Studios made a section of their dedicated fanbase uncomfortable with the character.

No, not Marvel Studios. A big part of the "not liking Captain Marvel" stuff specifically originated with certain vocal sections of the internet deciding Brie Larson is apparently the worst person to ever exist because she said "hey maybe press junkets should not only be white guys" one time 

[SpiderByte]

50 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Some Strange & Spidey fans hate her because they want them to be the focus of this saga;

You keep saying this like Carol has been the main focus of the saga or something when she absolutely in no way has been.

[SpiderByte]

If only to break us out of this rut going in circles again:

 

DanielRPK is reportedly saying on his Patreon that Watts is not 100% signed on for Spidey 4 yet, and that another director being considered to direct it is Drew Goddard.

 

He was originally going to direct Sinister Six for Sony (the version from the Amazing Spider-Man timeline, that got axed when the deal for the MCU version happened), which lends credence to the rumor of Sony wanting it to culminate all their spinoff plans...but Drew Goddard is also the creator of the Daredevil TV show (and whole he left he still wrote the first two episodes), which ties into the other rumored plot of the movie. So whichever one it is...would not be made more clear.

Edited December 4, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Belakor]

 

 

 

[MysteryMovieMogul]

1 hour ago, Willowra said:

There have been hundreds of reddit posts

Okay, that's where you just lost Marvel's attention.

[Daxtreme]

I still can't believe they never realized that Thor + Captain Marvel in the same movie would have been great. Both are cosmic side of the MCU, they have great chemistry together, it would have done very well at the box office. Likely like Thor 4 + a boost due to the team-up

 

[Torontofan]

I think the lack of excitment to Captain Marvel Entry in Endgame showed Captain Marvel 2019 was just driven by an infinity war boost fully. 

[Zak]

A lot of The Marvels fans wouldn't be as shocked as they are right now if they would have only listened to real people who pointed out the issues with the first film. That's what happens when you lump all critics together.

 

There's a difference between not liking a movie for story and character reasons and not liking a film because you don't like that it is staring a woman. Two completely different trains of thought of yet they were seen as the same thing because films are seen as activism from certain people. Captain Marvel felt like a rushed project that only chose it's lead actress because she won an Oscar and not because she was actually right for the role. That sloppiness has come back to bite Marvel in the behind. 

[Sckathian]

7 hours ago, Daxtreme said:

I still can't believe they never realized that Thor + Captain Marvel in the same movie would have been great. Both are cosmic side of the MCU, they have great chemistry together, it would have done very well at the box office. Likely like Thor 4 + a boost due to the team-up

 

That bridge is burnt now for both characters but if they are in Avengers then I agree linking them up and sending them on a cosmic quest makes a lot of sense. Chuck in a low level Avenger to ground them and provide levity.

[Willowra]

7 hours ago, Zak said:

A lot of The Marvels fans wouldn't be as shocked as they are right now if they would have only listened to real people who pointed out the issues with the first film. That's what happens when you lump all critics together.

 

There's a difference between not liking a movie for story and character reasons and not liking a film because you don't like that it is staring a woman. Two completely different trains of thought of yet they were seen as the same thing because films are seen as activism from certain people. Captain Marvel felt like a rushed project that only chose it's lead actress because she won an Oscar and not because she was actually right for the role. That sloppiness has come back to bite Marvel in the behind. 

Or she is perfect casting for the role & unlike other MCU heroes like Thor, Captain America and Doctor Strange they didn't establish her in the MCU in between her solo movies & that sloppiness has come back to bite Marvel in the behind?

[MysteryMovieMogul]

16 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Or she is perfect casting for the role & unlike other MCU heroes like Thor, Captain America and Doctor Strange they didn't establish her in the MCU in between her solo movies & that sloppiness has come back to bite Marvel in the behind?

Captain Marvel hasn't been a massive part of any film since Endgame. She wasn't even in Secret Invasion, despite being directly involved with the show's two main characters in the first film. Chronically online folks are claiming the audience has rejected Captain Marvel, and it's possible they have, but even Marvel Studios hasn't been acting like she's important.

[Willowra]

18 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

Captain Marvel hasn't been a massive part of any film since Endgame. She wasn't even in Secret Invasion, despite being directly involved with the show's two main characters in the first film. Chronically online folks are claiming the audience has rejected Captain Marvel, and it's possible they have, but even Marvel Studios hasn't been acting like she's important.

Actually no one has been a massive part of any film since Endgame(Only DS had some major role in NWH). There isn't any Avengers movie in phase 4 or 5 & they haven't announced Avengers 5 cast yet, so no one actually knows who is important and who isn't.

[Brainbug]

For me personally, The Marvels' epic bombage and why exactly it did so poorly has two main reasons:

 

1. It paid for the sins of the MCU's latest installments. Doctor Strange 2 had all the hype in the world, but proved to be extremely divisive, almost like a mini-Last Jedi. Thor 4 had tons of goodwill, but in the eyes of many completely destroyed Thors character and turned him into a pathetic joke. Ant-Man 3 already showed signs of fatigue on its OW, but still opened big, but as we all know, that movie was the final nail in the coffin for MCU goodwill. It basically sunk Phase 5's momentum before that Phase really begun. And its all Marvels own fault for not making good movies anymore or just movies that audiences actually want to see.

 

The big exception ofc is GOTG Vol 3, but that also suffered on OW from the MCU's trajectory, only to save itself through its legs since, well - it was actually a great movie that audiences enjoyed. Funny how that works. GOTG Vol 3's perfomance imo is also a big indicator that

 

2) The Marvels' OW bombage can be explained by the movie having to pay for the films that came before it. Its legs otoh cant be explained that way. After the OW, a films perfomance nowadays is completely dependant on WOM and audience reception. Clearly, both are stinky for the movie and people showed a huge disinterest in the film. Why exactly that is is up for debate, but the fact is, nobody cares about the film or - in extension - about the character of Captain Marvel. Numbers dont lie in that regard.

[SpiderByte]

Looked more into the Goddard stuff and apparently he was also up for Homecoming way way back in the day. So if Watts was unavailable/wanted to focus more on his Final Destination movie, it definitely feels plausible Goddard would be up for the role.

[PlatnumRoyce]

15 hours ago, Zak said:

Captain Marvel felt like a rushed project that only chose it's lead actress because she won an Oscar and not because she was actually right for the role. That sloppiness has come back to bite Marvel in the behind. 

That big newish Ringer-MCU book didn't say that about Larson but it did argue Marvel really struggled to put together a creative team for the film because the core concept of it kept changing to slot into Endgame/Infinity War duology. Ironically, it's exactly the same "problem with not thinking things out" people argue the MCU avoids.