Big Hero 6 | November 7, 2014 | Now available on home video

[MovieMan89]

I don't deny that it may have benefited from a lack of direct competition, but it's still total speculation. Lack of competition doesn't automatically mean great legs.

Of course not. But it has had great legs. So then since we know it's well liked, I don't think it can be argued that if we pretend it were only competing with say Annie and not the other 3 it wouldn't have added some nice additional gross.

Edited December 31, 2014 by MovieMan89

[Melvin Frohike]

Seriously, why is it that lack of direct (and timely) competition is universally accepted by nearly everyone who tracks box office as a huge benefit for a big movie,

Because people generally have a tendency to view everything in a zero-sum kind of way, as well as in a myopic way when it comes to a special field of interest. Reality is more dynamic and offers alternatives to spending money at the box office unless movies can draw people in. There have been times when two big movies in direct competition have both fared very well, and there have been other times when movies that had big expectations have underperformed in relative isolation. Logic would suggest that competition therefore is hardly the only factor in the success of a movie or the lack thereof. People also have a tendency to ignore facts when they disagree with their pet theories.

 

except from the Frozenites only when concerning Frozen?

The truth does not apply only to Frozen, but some people keep trying to play down this movie in this way, and obviously this will draw a response from its fans.

 

Bring up that fact and then all of a sudden you clearly must be hating.

It's not necessarily a case of hating in every instance, but it often seems that way because it is so very obvious that the Frozen phenomenon is way more than just the movie's box office gross. Need I spell it out here for those who have been living on another planet for the past year? To say or imply that the lack of direct competition last year was the main reason for the movie's success is to conveniently ignore the phenomenon as a whole, as well as the fact, for example, that Frozen faced much heavier competition in Japan and came out unscathed. Given the foregoing, it stands to reason--although the absolute truth can never be known--that in a presumptive zero-sum scenario Frozen would have hurt any competition way more than it would have been hurt by the competition. At the very least, it makes Frozen a poor example of a movie making it big due to a lack of competition--find some other example because this one has a huge cultural phenomenon that surrounds it and will persist for years. In addition, there are clear counterexamples such as the aforementioned HTTYD 2, which underperformed in the face of zero direct competition.

[MovieMan89]

You're just not getting at all what I'm saying Melvin. Frozen was very well liked and would have been a huge hit regardless of how much competition. 400m no matter what though? I don't think so. I'm arguing in favor of Frozen's pop culture status being unaffected no matter what. Box office is not unaffected no matter what though. What if for example LEGO and Nut Job had switched release dates? Frozen would have had its first strong competitor a month earlier into its run than it did and 400m would not have happened. Maybe 375m. And that's just considering that scenario. Now suppose it had several relatively appealing direct competitors during November/December? It would have still been huge, but likely not much more than 300m. Likewise the opposite is true for BH6. It's well liked but had way more competition especially for the all important Xmas-New Year's period. It could have picked up at least another 50m total in gross eliminating the competition, no doubt. There would have been no other real family options and it's well liked. The fact is there are scenarios where BH6 and Frozen could have come within sneezing distance at the box office (both opening on Thanksgiving and the competition being more balanced for example). That being said, I don't think BH6 would have ever been able to compete on pop culture impact with Frozen, similar box office or not.

 

Also why bring Dragon back up? I already said that obviously just didn't connect with people the way many of us thought it would, and competition in that case become far less relevant. And again, both 2013/2014 summer's saw their direct family fare eat up about 700m worth of gross. It was just mainly dominated by 2 movies in 2013. The pie pieces were split differently, but the overall pie was not significantly changed. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by MovieMan89

[Spidey Freak]

Seriously, why is it that lack of direct (and timely) competition is universally accepted by nearly everyone who tracks box office as a huge benefit for a big movie, except from the Frozenites only when concerning Frozen?  Bring up that fact and then all of a sudden you clearly must be hating. 

 

Coz you've been hating on Frozen right from Day 1. Initially you said it would have weak legs after the big opening because it was the girliest Disney film since Little Mermaid/Sleeping Beauty and that no boy would tell his friends to watch it. Then once the movie proved to be a cultural mammoth you changed your argument to no competition for Frozen being the reason it having great legs. Your position regarding all things Queen Elsa has always been suspect. This whimpering of being an innocent victim of the unjust and monstrous Frozennites is as convincing as the Duke of Weselton's protestations while being tossed out of Arendelle.

 

 

And accordingly the similar lack of direct competition was, of course, why HTTYD 2 cleaned up at the DOM box office this summer, exceeding even the most optimistic predictions by grossing as much as Monsters University and Despicable Me 2 did last summer combined, amiright? Wait, it actually underperformed? Do you have an explanation for this discrepancy?

 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Spidey Freak

[AniNate]

I think Melvin's point is you can't account for chaos theory. Who really knows how well BH6 would've done without competition or Frozen with it? There are far more factors that go into legs than that, some of which we probably can't quantify. No movie is released in a vacuum.

Edited December 31, 2014 by tribefan695

[MovieMan89]

 

 

Coz you've been hating on Frozen right from Day 1. Initially you said it would have weak legs after the big opening because it was the girliest Disney film since Little Mermaid/Sleeping Beauty and that no boy would tell his friends to watch it. Then once the movie proved to be a cultural mammoth you changed your argument to no competition for Frozen being the reason it having great legs. Your position regarding all things Queen Elsa has always been suspect. This whimpering of being an innocent victim of the unjust and monstrous Frozennites is as convincing as the Duke of Weselton's protestations while being tossed out of Arendelle.

 

Nice way to avoid all the valid points I made just so you could bring up stuff from a year ago (i.e. about how long ago I stopped making excuses for Frozen and admitted it was massive). Doesn't change a damn thing about anything I'm arguing here. Place BH6 on an exact even playing field with Frozen's release (so it gets a Thanksgiving release and one 40m direct Holiday competitor) and then tell me objectively how the two don't come within like 50m or less in gross? After all, BH6's actual holds have been similarly impressive as Frozen's so far on an overall basis (only 5% behind Frozen's holds on average for the first 8 weekends). And again, working against way fiercer competition. So give me your argument of why what I'm saying is BS and Frozen hate? Love to hear it.

Edited December 31, 2014 by MovieMan89

[Spidey Freak]

Nice way to avoid all the valid points I made just so you could bring up stuff from a year ago (i.e. about how long ago I stopped making excuses for Frozen and admitted it was massive). Doesn't change a damn thing about anything I'm arguing here. Place BH6 on an exact even playing field with Frozen's release (so it gets a Thanksgiving release and one 40m direct Holiday competitor) and then tell me objectively how the two don't come within like 50m or less in gross? After all, BH6's actual holds have been similarly impressive as Frozen's so far on an overall basis. And again, working against way fiercer competition. So give me your argument of why what I'm saying is BS and Frozen hate? Love to hear it.

 

1) LET IT GO, Queen Elsa and the True Love twist got mass media (both online and offline) abuzz, making Frozen a must see for families. Compare that to BH6 where the media interest has been 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000012

2) Disney musicals have immense potential to be huge due to their artistry. So when they are done in a way that captivates audience imagination through story, character and song like Frozen, TLK, Aladdin etc. they end up being immortal giants.

3) When it comes to movies, little girls are really under served when compared to little boys. Boys don't really need another superhero movie when they get 3-4 per year. Girls OTOH need movies directly targeted at them with strong female role models and themes pertaining to their interests.

4) The boy and his faithful thing concept has been done before in animated movies. And done very well. Princesses with any kind of psychological depth less so. No, Belle's Stockholm Syndrome doesn't count!

5) LET IT FUCKING GO! And all the other catchy and adorable songs that became viral sensations. BH6 had... Immortals.

 

With all these factors going for it, Frozen would have been humongous regardless of release date or competition. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Spidey Freak

[MovieMan89]

*sigh*

Sometimes I think some of the frozenite's brains literally shut off if they see anything even remotely not resembling worship of it. How else to explain the above post full of fanboy blabber when I said over and over how Frozen's status as a huge pop culture phenomenon would have likely remained unchanged regardless of 300m or 400m domestic box office. And BH6 would have never been the pop culture phenomenon Frozen was, again regardless of box office results. Shrek 2 wasn't, and it sold like twice as many tickets at the box office. I'd also love to know how someone like me who gives Frozen a B is still considered a hater in their eyes. Again, their fanbase is fucking crazy (in regards to the film). Jesus. They do way more damage than good for that movie's rep.

Edited December 31, 2014 by MovieMan89

[Dingdong123]

What happened to this thread? A damn mess.

Saw this today.

 

WHY HAVEN'T YOU GUYS BEEN HYPING FEAST??? Seriously, that was the best part of this experience, even though I liked the movie itself. Feast is probably the best short Disney has done yet in this new Renaissance; it legitimately made me break down crying at the end.

Eh, Paperman still slays. It got all the magic, the emotions, the rush in feelings. And Get A Horse! was pretty meh.

[Spidey Freak]

*sigh*

Sometimes I think some of the frozenite's brains literally shut off if they see anything even remotely not resembling worship of it. How else to explain the above post full of fanboy blabber when I said over and over how Frozen's status as a huge pop culture phenomenon would have likely remained unchanged regardless of 300m or 400m domestic box office. And BH6 would have never been the pop culture phenomenon Frozen was, again regardless of box office results. Shrek 2 wasn't, and it sold like twice as many tickets at the box office. I'd also love to know how someone like me who gives Frozen a B is still considered a hater in their eyes. Again, their fanbase is fucking crazy (in regards to the film). Jesus. They do way more damage than good for that movie's rep.

 

You poor thang having to deal with Frozennite hedonism. Fate is cruel to leave you with no choice but to face the unending darkness.

[23IsEverywhere]

I think that BH6 has been hurt more by Interstellar than PoM,Night 3, ITW, and Annie combined. That film managed to make BH6 feel like a nonevent even on this forum. There was no buzz, and no media coverage for BH6, and imo that cost it its shot at $250M or more.

[Dingdong123]

I think that BH6 has been hurt more by Interstellar than PoM,Night 3, ITW, and Annie combined. That film managed to make BH6 feel like a nonevent even on this forum. There was no buzz, and no media coverage for BH6, and imo that cost it its shot at $250M or more.

Interstellar hurt BH6 in terms of the media/press coverage. It was the hyped movie of its release, not Big Hero 6. Even when BH6 became #1 on the box office, headlines were like "Interstellar underperforms", "Why Interetellar did not do great" instead of "Big Hero 6 take the box office".

And yes, NATM3, Annie, POM and to a lesser extent ITW did hurt BH6's holiday box office chances. It could have probably double its daily numbers these holidays if it wasn't for those movies. But the fact that BH6 is still doing magnificent speaks for its astounding performance and WOM.

[druv10]

Not this BS Frozen argument again. Movieman, you really need to let it go. 

[edroger3]

Not this BS Frozen argument again. Movieman, you really need to let it go. 

This has become a universal rule: "Wherever and whenever you starts a discussion about an animated movie you always ends up talking about Frozen"

[BadAtGender]

Competition is overrated. It has some effect, but it tends to be less than people expect in most cases. Films that suffer the most from competition are the underdogs. In all the head-to-head matchups Frozen had (except one, possibly), it was viewed as the stronger film, thus it didn't suffer, even if it ended up grossing less that weekend. The same seems to be true for Big Hero 6.

[Sal]

Did we really need 2 pages of discussion about Frozen?

 

This poor movie can't even get a break on its own thread...

 

Other things stealing its hype is absolutely a factor in how things turned out.  Interstellar's headlines, etc.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Sal

[humanscrabble]

Interestingly enough, Big Hero 6 began to really outpace The Incredibles, which was also released during the first week of November, in terms of daily and weekly domestic grosses from Week 7 (day 39) onwards:

 

Week 7

 

              Big Hero 6        The Incredibles

Day 39   375K                 290K

Day 40   489K                 311K

Day 41   373K                 324K

Day 42   403K                 357K

Day 43   873K                 766K

Day 44   1.52 mil             1.34 mil

Day 45   1.24 mil             1.01 mil

 

Week 8 

 

              Big Hero 6        The Incredibles

Day 46   1.08 mil             690K

Day 47   1.33 mil             782K   

Day 48   836K                 683K

Day 49   1.29 mil             874K

Day 50   1.66 mil             705K

Day 51   1.83 mil             710K

Day 52   1.50 mil             1.00 mil

 

Week 9 

               Big Hero 6        The Incredibles

Day 53   1.41 mil             1.13 mil

*from Box Office Mojo  

Edited December 31, 2014 by humanscrabble

[Blankments]

What happened to this thread? A damn mess.

Eh, Paperman still slays. It got all the magic, the emotions, the rush in feelings. And Get A Horse! was pretty meh.

True... I need to rewatch Paperman. And Feast.

[MovieMan89]

Not this BS Frozen argument again. Movieman, you really need to let it go. 

Don't pretend you even read what I was arguing or you'd know it's not even about that movie. It's about this one. And yes it would have made more with no competition. Go back to the Frozen thread from whence you came. And get a new catch phrase while you're there cause you're not cute, funny, clever, or even a little bit intelligent with that old beaten horse.

Edited December 31, 2014 by MovieMan89

[Empire]

True... I need to rewatch Paperman. And Feast.

Feast was so good. Brought tears to my eyes.