A Marvel Fanboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 don't agree at all but whatever Bother to name one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Inception sold about 6M copies and that made 292M while Avatar sold 10M and made 760M. Now I am not saying this means people didn't like Avatar or something but maybe it is a film many people feel they did not need to own or watch on the small screen. And someone brought up TS3, which sold more than Avatar yet was not as big a hit in theatersAvatar was the highest selling B/R ever destroying and shattering numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Avatar hate in this thread is laughable. At this point, I don't question JC. He can do whatever he wants because he knows how to win the audiences over and no doubt he'll deliver with the sequels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Avatar has deep characters.....Really? On one side of the fence we have Colonel Quaritch and Parker. One who could not be more of a stereotype of a hoo-raah badass marine and the other who could not be more of a stereotype greedy corporate CEO willing to do anything for profits. I mean come on we have one of them drinking a cup of coffee while watching the natives homeland being destroyed and the other putting while casually dissing the natives and their resistance to change. These characters simply have no depth to them whatsoever. And on the flip-side we have the Na'vi. A nobel race of 'primitives' who live in perfect harmony with nature. There is no war or sickness with them. We are led to believe they live perfect lives. Yes, what great depth in character is shown here...oh silly me. Completely realistic. And then we have Jake in the middle. Hmmm I wonder which side he was going to choose, a group of cartoon white racist marine types or, the perfect little native types who live simple yet fulfilling lives where no problems exist other than the white racist military. Especially as he is chasing some hot alien tale. I mean who wouldn't be a traitor to their own race for some hot Neytiri action. What a perfect specimen she is. Those big eyes showing that we can trust her. That nose that reminds us of our Cats and Dogs. Those luscious lips. Very easy to see why Jake fell for her. The script did not have to work hard at all to get the audience behind that romance. Now if Neytiri had looked rather more like say It would had been a much more impressive job by the script to get us to relate to that relationship. And let me be clear, I don't hate Avatar, I don't begrudge James Cameron his success. He knows what the mainstream enjoys and he knows how to deliver. He is a very competent director who knows his shiz. But Avatar is simply too 'cheap' in the way it manipulates our feelings with caricatures of real people and the pristine beauty of pandora for me to ever consider this a masterpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Marvel Fanboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Avatar has much deep themes. And Justice is only one aspect. It deals with the future of technology and human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 No story nowadays is completely original. Even Inception I found quite a few parts of it similar to some other films.Its characters are better than many of other big-budget blockbusters out there. It's funny people complain about its characters, but for films like Inception people ignore that they didnt even have a character.Inception has one real character in Cobb, the rest really are quite underdeveloped. But the thing is that a movie like Inception does not need to be character driven. The success or failure of a movie like Inception rests on how well it's gimmick (in Inception's case the what if we could get into other peoples Dreams) entertains us or challenges us. Not its characters.A movie like Avatar where the whole movie hinges on a romance.....well those characters need to be well developed IMO.Bother to name one ?Wall-E manages to tell a better story with better character development with barely any line of dialogue in the first half of the movie.Avatar hate in this thread is laughable. At this point, I don't question JC. He can do whatever he wants because he knows how to win the audiences over and no doubt he'll deliver with the sequels.Yes, lets not question popular things. Lets just accept that if things are popular they are perfect! *Puts in a Justin Beiber Album while takes a bite on a Big Mac* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Marvel Fanboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Wall-E manages to tell a better story with better character development with barely any line of dialogue in the first half of the movie. See ? Only the first half of WALL-E ... Avatar is strong in every part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Marvel Fanboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Inception has one real character in Cobb, the rest really are quite underdeveloped. But the thing is that a movie like Inception does not need to be character driven. The success or failure of a movie like Inception rests on how well it's gimmick (in Inception's case the what if we could get into other peoples Dreams) entertains us or challenges us. Not its characters. A movie like Avatar where the whole movie hinges on a romance.....well those characters need to be well developed IMO. Why this ? Double standard ? Anyway, I felt much much more connected to Jack in Avatar than Cobb in Inception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Marvel Fanboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 One thing I do agree is, Inception is the second best sci-fi film in the past 12 years of 21th century, only behind Avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvikk Lunsj Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Why this ? Double standard ?Anyway, I felt much much more connected to Jack in Avatar than Cobb in InceptionBecause Inception is about Cobb trying to get home and Avatar is like Titanic. But Titanic characters are so much better written. Avatar is so stereotypical in every way. Characters are so stereotypes and their is no heart to any character. Avatar offered nothing story wise new expected great CGI and 3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Marvel Fanboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) You know what, the biggest problem about Avatar is not anything actually about Avatar the film itself, but about many people think it earned more money than it deserves. If Avatar only made 1B worldwide, no one would say a single fucking word about how it was overrated. So let me get this straight, Avatar deserves every fucking single coins it earned. Avatar had the best story-telling in a big budget film you can see. Not only it had the best visuals ever so far, but also some of the best moment in film history. It cared about the the future of technology and human being (and future of you Avatar haters of course). It is the best and most complicated science fiction film ever. And It is the best film ever about dissimilation, technology and civilization out there, which is right the biggest questions that human being, and probably every civilization in the universe (if there is any) , has been facing and will always be facing. And it did had tried to find a reasonable solution about these problems. It is one of the film that should be writen in the film history ever. You haters take it or not. Remarks: this is a post that not directed against any individual poster on the forums ... Edited July 2, 2012 by firedeep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvikk Lunsj Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 You know what, the biggest problem about Avatar is not anything actually about Avatar the film itself, but about many people think it earned more money than it deserves. If Avatar only made 1B worldwide, no one would say a single fucking word about how it was overrated. So let me get this straight, Avatar deserves every fucking single coins it earned. Avatar had the best story-telling in a big budget film you can see. Not only it had the best visuals ever so far, but also some of the best moment in film history. It cared about the the future of technology and human being (and you Avatar haters future of course). It is the best and most complicated science fiction film ever. And It is the best film ever about dissimilation, technology and civilization out there, which is right the biggest questions that human being, and probably every civilization in the universe (if there is any) , has been facing and will always be facing. And it did had tried to find a reasonable solution about these problems. It is one of the film that should be writen in the film history ever. You haters take it or not. Remarks: this is a post that not directed against any individual poster on the forums ... I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goffe Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Why this ? Double standard ? Anyway, I felt much much more connected to Jack in Avatar than Cobb in Inception I can't connect with a person who betrays the own race, I just can't.... Edited July 2, 2012 by Goffe Rises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMovieman Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) I'm starting to hate Avatar because so many take such resentment to those who hate it (or at least don't care for it). ;)For me, I liked it for the 3D but the story was predictable and the characters, which is the driving force, are stereotypical in every way. "Dexter of Suburbia" already well described them so no need to rehash it. In the end, I thought it was OK (if not for the 3D, I would've given a "C+", with 3D it drove it to a "B"). However, since its release on home video, I haven't had the desire to watch it again and to be fair, I haven't had much of a desire to revisit Inception outside of one viewing when it came out on Blu-ray (and that was to review it, so I kind of had to). Edited July 2, 2012 by TheMovieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Marvel Fanboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) I can't connect with a person who betrays the own race, I just can't....Well, Jack didn't betray human being/his own race. He just broke his contract with RDA,a giant bad company. Edited July 2, 2012 by firedeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Avatar has much deep themes. And Justice is only one aspect. It deals with the future of technology and human being. Lol. No. Avatar's Themes have no depth to them because the characters that communicate them have no depth. Now for example, if instead of a greedy CEO we had a guy tasked with securing earths energy future because without the 'unobtanium' billions were going to die from starvation due to a lack of energy to grow and harvest food. He tried everything to move the Na'vi peacefully but they just wouldn't budge so he has to decide between their civilisation or his own. Meanwhile Jake had to make his own choice as to what was more important for him, his race surviving at any cost, or leaving the Na'vi be and that the ends do not justify the means. Complicating his decision is his newfound love for a native girl. Now that idea has some meat behind it and with that you can explore themes such as sustainability and justice, in a mature fashion. The sad thing is we get a glimpse of this in the last few minutes when it is said that the military are returning to their 'dying' world, but because we don't see any consequences for Jake's actions, there is simply no depth to be found here. For me personally that would have the potential to be a vastly superior film in my eyes although it would most likely take a lot less cash at the Box Office. See ? Only the first half of WALL-E ... Avatar is strong in every part. Let me rephrase so there is no confusion. Wall-E, despite having almost no dialogue in the first half of the film is a vastly superior in how it tells its story then Avatar does. Why this ? Double standard ? Anyway, I felt much much more connected to Jack in Avatar than Cobb in Inception No double standard. Is it a double standard that we rate comedy movies based on how much they make us laugh, but not drama films? Of course not. Inception is all about Cobb and exploring the nature of dreams vs reality through his eyes. The other characters do not need to be fleshed out to serve the purpose of this particular story. Avatar on the other hand is about a romance between two different species. We need these characters to be fleshed out and 'real' for lack of a better word to really elevate the movie above standard affair. The motivations and characters of the villains in this story are also important as they are one of the key reasons of Jakes changing his allegiances. Is Avatar a bad film? No. Is Avatar a masterpiece.....No. Not in my eyes. I don't care how much it made, Well done to James Cameron for his success. But that does not change my opinion of the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixiesvision Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I've not seen it yet... *hides* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Marvel Fanboy Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Okey, cool ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goffe Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Well, Jack didn't betray human being/his own race. He just broke his contract with RDA,a giant bad company. and he fought on the side of the natives, killing a lot of humans.I still can't understand how the humans lost to a bunch natives with bows and arrows . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc2002 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Inception has one real character in Cobb, the rest really are quite underdeveloped. But the thing is that a movie like Inception does not need to be character driven. The success or failure of a movie like Inception rests on how well it's gimmick (in Inception's case the what if we could get into other peoples Dreams) entertains us or challenges us. Not its characters.A movie like Avatar where the whole movie hinges on a romance.....well those characters need to be well developed IMO.You dislike one film for not offering good characters, but you give a free pass to another because you find yourself a good excuse: Oh films like Inception dont need characters! This is bias at its worst.Avatar didnt hinge on a romance. Romance was just a part of the grand story. It hinged on whether you could make the audience emotionally invested into a new world. Make the world beautiful, make the navis different from our world (their culture, behavior, etc.,) yet still relatable and likeable, etc. You fail on these critical part you get John Carter. Edited July 2, 2012 by vc2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
