Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[TomCruiseTop]

2 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

 

Your criteria is fluctuant and poorly conceived. How do you compare EL James to Orwell in your TPM to Avatar? Critical success or financial? If critical, there are more authors who are more critically successful more consistently, and with higher marks. If you mean Financially, well there isn't even a question. On both those measures there are authors who are above and beyond Orwell. Rowling would far better fit.

 

Rowling wouldn't outsell Orwell in the the C20th as I stated to begin with, which was an aside. My criterion is neither 'fluctuant' nor 'poorly conceived' - it is deceptively simple - that which sells the best is the best.  

[TomCruiseTop]

3 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

Expecting the bar to be raised on cgi and visuals yet again, it will be the best thing we have seen in 9 years.

Wanting some nice action sequences

Enchanting pandora feeling, remember the 3d seeds scene? damn

I want to see more humans and more of Jims visionary sci fi tech

 

 

I hope that we can see glasses-free 3D, although I'm not confident in it working perfectly. 

 

The rest (visionary visuals and cgi) are almost axiomatic at this point when it comes to Jim. 

 

The real question I'd want to know what you think on is the story. I'm strongly in the camp that we will see a much larger role for the Utral Aymokriyä, as it would open up so many more avenues for the story to go. 

[RandomCat]

1 minute ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

 

Rowling wouldn't outsell Orwell in the the C20th as I stated to begin with, which was an aside. My criterion is neither 'fluctuant' nor 'poorly conceived' - it is deceptively simple - that which sells the best is the best.  

 

Then you can tell me where Orwell is on this chart. Best Selling Authors

Can you tell me what Orwell's best selling book was, how many copies it sold?

[IronJimbo]

1 minute ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

 

I hope that we can see glasses-free 3D, although I'm not confident in it working perfectly. 

 

The rest (visionary visuals and cgi) are almost axiomatic at this point when it comes to Jim. 

 

The real question I'd want to know what you think on is the story. I'm strongly in the camp that we will see a much larger role for the Utral Aymokriyä, as it would open up so many more avenues for the story to go. 

 

Jim did mention the godfather which did have the past in it. I'm quite sure yet but he could show the moment when the humans first arrived and the moment where Quaritch got his scar.

 

[TomCruiseTop]

2 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

 

Then you can tell me where Orwell is on this chart. Best Selling Authors

Can you tell me what Orwell's best selling book was, how many copies it sold?

 

That's of all time, and by combined works, again, is your reading comprehension that poor? I'm not here to defend GO. It was an aside. I am saying that sententia populi decretum Dei. That's the proposition that I'm defending, you're going off on a wild tangent or massively misunderstanding my position with the GO stuff. 

 

I have no source to hand on the best selling book of the 20th century, I merely remember reading an article a few years back that 1984 was the highest for that period. If we can, by newton's laser sword, find evidence to the contrary on that particular point then I will happily change my particular position on that point. This is perfectly in line with my previous point. 

 

So back to the original assertion, under what system, other than some kind of faux-communist enforced subjectivity, is my position false? 

[TomCruiseTop]

8 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

Jim did mention the godfather which did have the past in it. I'm quite sure yet but he could show the moment when the humans first arrived and the moment where Quaritch got his scar.

 

 

I think you're probably right on this, I think there are a number of possible time zones we could visit: 

 

The most obvious would be the timeline of the original Toruk Makto and how the first great disaster was averted, although that would probably interfere with the CdS show. 

 

I agree that the other is that of the pre-Jake period. Although I think there will be a couple of distinct areas that could be explored: 

 

       1. The first meeting of the sky people (since we don't seem to have much information on this, if at all). 

       2. Obviously the arrival and subsequent battles that CQ is engaged in - although this one is quite obvious. 

 

The area I personally would like to see is the deep past of the Na'vi. I have my own suspicions about their origins, but those speculations are totally wild. 

 

 

[IronJimbo]

2 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

 

I think you're probably right on this, I think there are a number of possible time zones we could visit: 

 

The most obvious would be the timeline of the original Toruk Makto and how the first great disaster was averted, although that would probably interfere with the CdS show. 

 

I agree that the other is that of the pre-Jake period. Although I think there will be a couple of distinct areas that could be explored: 

 

       1. The first meeting of the sky people (since we don't seem to have much information on this, if at all). 

       2. Obviously the arrival and subsequent battles that CQ is engaged in - although this one is quite obvious. 

 

The area I personally would like to see is the deep past of the Na'vi. I have my own suspicions about their origins, but those speculations are totally wild. 

 

 

 

The deep past of Na'Vi sounds really interesting, wonder what the reason for Jake or NeyNey going to the Utral Aymokriyä could be plausible.

 

Got a feeling the film could be Present 5-10 mins, Past >2 hours, Present 5-10min, sorta of like titanic if you will.

 

[RandomCat]

7 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

 

That's of all time, and by combined works, again, is your reading comprehension that poor? I'm not here to defend GO. It was an aside. I am saying that sententia populi decretum Dei. That's the proposition that I'm defending, you're going off on a wild tangent or massively misunderstanding my position with the GO stuff. 

 

I have no source to hand on the best selling book of the 20th century, I merely remember reading an article a few years back that 1984 was the highest for that period. If we can, by newton's laser sword, find evidence to the contrary on that particular point then I will happily change my particular position on that point. This is perfectly in line with my previous point. 

 

So back to the original assertion, under what system, other than some kind of faux-communist enforced subjectivity, is my position false? 

 

The highest selling book released in the 20th Century was The Alchemist (150M Copies), by Paulo Coelho, 1988. The highest selling English work was Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (107M Copies), by JK Rowling in 1997. More contemporarily in 1939, And Then There Were None, by Agatha Christie sold 100 Million Copies, or The Hobbit in 1937 sold 100M.

 

Orwell's most widely sold novel is 1984, released in 1949, which only sold 25M Copies. Released two years prior, The Diary of Anne Frank has sold over 30M Copies.

 

List of Best Selling Books

 

I don't have statistics for how anything sold at the time, but that doesn't matter. What sold the best, over roughly the same amount of time is pretty clear.

 

[TomCruiseTop]

2 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

The deep past of Na'Vi sounds really interesting, wonder what the reason for Jake or NeyNey going to the Utral Aymokriyä could be plausible.

 

Got a feeling the film could be Present 5-10 mins, Past >2 hours, Present 5-10min, sorta of like titanic if you will.

 

 

I think that's a likely structure that we could see at some point in at least one of the sequels. Esp. considering that one of them was originally going to be a prequel of some kind. 

 

My theory is that the Na'vi are actually post-industrial and have gone the route of some kind of primitive society while maintaining the tech (see: Eywa etc.) that is beneficial to both them and the rest of Pandora as a whole. 

 

The question that then arises is: do the Na'vi that we know of in the 2130s remember this period? 

[4815162342]

1 hour ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

 

Maybe in the Soviet Union, but in the west it's exactly how it works. 

 

So by your logic, the best movie of 2007 was Spider-Man 3 because it was the highest grossing movie of the year.

 

OK then. I think that settles your theory.

Edited January 5, 2017 by 4815162342

[TomCruiseTop]

4 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

The highest selling book released in the 20th Century was The Alchemist (150M Copies)

 

Thank you for this, then this shall henceforth be my favorite book of the 20th Century.  

[TomCruiseTop]

Just now, 4815162342 said:

 

So by your logic, the best movie of 2007 was Spider-Man 3.

 

OK then. I think that settles your theory.

 

I don't deal with specific years, only centuries and all time. Please, stop attempting to put words into my mouth. 

[4815162342]

4 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

 

I don't deal with specific years, only centuries and all time. Please, stop attempting to put words into my mouth. 

 

You can't pick and choose where your logic starts and stops. If you believe X is the best overall of an era because of cumulative sales in that ers, then you have to stand by the proposition that Y is the best of a specific time because of the cumative sales in that time.

 

Because in the end, your theory is that greatness and "best" is determined by gross revenue.

Edited January 5, 2017 by 4815162342

[IronJimbo]

1 minute ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

 

I think that's a likely structure that we could see at some point in at least one of the sequels. Esp. considering that one of them was originally going to be a prequel of some kind. 

 

My theory is that the Na'vi are actually post-industrial and have gone the route of some kind of primitive society while maintaining the tech (see: Eywa etc.) that is beneficial to both them and the rest of Pandora as a whole. 

 

The question that then arises is: do the Na'vi that we know of in the 2130s remember this period? 

 

That's a REALLY interesting idea, it would make sense that Eywa is actually extremely advanced technology. It also ties in with Jim's environmental message that we should look after the planet, if an alien race went as so far to remove technology and go primitive, while leaving certain things.

Do the 2130s Na'Vis know? Maybe the elder and that's it.

 

I heard one of the sequels will have groundbreaking underwater visuals, so I expect one, probably the second, to have an memorising sequence. Kinda of what Locust's Phantom Menaced hoped to have.

 

 

 

[TomCruiseTop]

10 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

 

The highest selling book released in the 20th Century was The Alchemist (150M Copies), by Paulo Coelho, 1988. The highest selling English work was Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (107M Copies), by JK Rowling in 1997. More contemporarily in 1939, And Then There Were None, by Agatha Christie sold 100 Million Copies, or The Hobbit in 1937 sold 100M.

 

Orwell's most widely sold novel is 1984, released in 1949, which only sold 25M Copies. Released two years prior, The Diary of Anne Frank has sold over 30M Copies.

 

List of Best Selling Books

 

I don't have statistics for how anything sold at the time, but that doesn't matter. What sold the best, over roughly the same amount of time is pretty clear.

 

 

You should also read more closely (again). The opening clearly states The Bible and Mao's Little Red Book as the best selling of all time with sales in the billions. The rest are as I said before the SW of the book world with Avatar being TB and Titanic being the LRB. 

[robertman2]

I can't wait for the meltdowns when this fails to out gross Monster Trucks' gross of 5 trillion WW

[TomCruiseTop]

2 minutes ago, 4815162342 said:

 

You can't pick and choose where your logic starts and stops. If you believe X is the best overall of an era because of cumulative sales in that ers, then you have to stand by the proposition that Y is the best of a specific time because of the cumative sales in that time.

 

Because in the end, your theory is that greatness and "best" is determined by gross revenue.

 

Sure I can - a year is just as arbitrary as 100. Again, your attempt to summarize my position is incorrect and adding information I never once spoke of. 

 

I never added a function of time to my position (other than one which is arbitrary as all human attempts (bar maybe planck's constant) are). So please, read my posts properly next time. 

 

Monetary value is the best and most objective system by which to measure worth, I would have thought that a non-controversial position being that we are on a box office theory forum. 

 

Your position (which I am not going to make any claims of understanding) seems prima facie to be more at home on some kind of communist subjective feelings on films forum. 

[IronJimbo]

2 minutes ago, robertman2 said:

I can't wait for the meltdowns when this fails to out gross Monster Trucks' gross of 5 trillion WW

 

No one in this thread will meltdown, if the bar has been raised, Jim can always just re-raise it. Go check out sws threads tho

[TomCruiseTop]

7 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

That's a REALLY interesting idea, it would make sense that Eywa is actually extremely advanced technology. It also ties in with Jim's environmental message that we should look after the planet, if an alien race went as so far to remove technology and go primitive, while leaving certain things.

Do the 2130s Na'Vis know? Maybe the elder and that's it.

 

I heard one of the sequels will have groundbreaking underwater visuals, so I expect one, probably the second, to have an memorising sequence. Kinda of what Locust's Phantom Menaced hoped to have.

 

 

 

 

The underwater sequences are going to be an interesting point for certain. I know Jim has visited pinewood's pools a couple of times in 2016 so I assume that's where they might be shot. 

 

The difficulty of course is getting the tech right and not making it seem like they're flying - although that in itself could be a work around, but I'm not going to pretend to know what Jim has in mind. 

 

One problem I have been thinking about lately is whether we will see extended sequences of spoken Na'vi, as there doesn't seem to be the impetus for them to speak English (as they did in the first). I'd say that JC will just ignore this and go straight ahead with them speaking English without addressing it. That's most likely wrong though, as we both know that Jim isn't one to just overlook a plot point in favor of fantasy, I doubt he'd want to break away from the hard sci-fi either. 

 

What do you think? 

[TomCruiseTop]

5 minutes ago, robertman2 said:

I can't wait for the meltdowns when this fails to out gross Monster Trucks' gross of 5 trillion WW

 

Just like the meltdowns of Trump fan's after Hillary's win right... Oh.